Give Lance a chance

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gdjG2toELBAG23-SMHLSM2e9GuWg?docId=cf9793db06b8446a81a3b56b13ad24af


Armstrong's popularity, his wealth, his ties to powerful figures including former U.S. presidents, his vehement denials, scores of clean drug tests — and, above all, his status as a cancer survivor and advocate for eradicating the disease — make him an incredibly tough target.
But for those who believe Armstrong cheated, all of those obstacles are less important than striking perhaps the biggest blow to date against performance-enhancing drugs.

"If you're going to aim that high you'd better be sure you have a rock-solid case," said a former federal prosecutor, Laurie Levenson of Loyola University Law School. "Jurors will want more than proof beyond a reasonable doubt when you're trying to bring down one of their heroes. They will want proof beyond any doubt."
 
Jun 13, 2010
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thehog said:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gdjG2toELBAG23-SMHLSM2e9GuWg?docId=cf9793db06b8446a81a3b56b13ad24af


Armstrong's popularity, his wealth, his ties to powerful figures including former U.S. presidents, his vehement denials, scores of clean drug tests — and, above all, his status as a cancer survivor and advocate for eradicating the disease — make him an incredibly tough target.
But for those who believe Armstrong cheated, all of those obstacles are less important than striking perhaps the biggest blow to date against performance-enhancing drugs.

"If you're going to aim that high you'd better be sure you have a rock-solid case," said a former federal prosecutor, Laurie Levenson of Loyola University Law School. "Jurors will want more than proof beyond a reasonable doubt when you're trying to bring down one of their heroes. They will want proof beyond any doubt."
It's articles like this, Hog, that lead me to believe that in the end LA will skate.
 
Jul 19, 2009
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thehog said:
"If you're going to aim that high you'd better be sure you have a rock-solid case," said a former federal prosecutor, Laurie Levenson of Loyola University Law School. "Jurors will want more than proof beyond a reasonable doubt when you're trying to bring down one of their heroes. They will want proof beyond any doubt."
Justice at 2 speeds?
 
thehog said:
"...Jurors will want more than proof beyond a reasonable doubt when you're trying to bring down one of their heroes. They will want proof beyond any doubt."
"Beyond any reasonable doubt" is likely part of the reason why Novitsky and Co. went to Europe. I'm all for giving the man a chance. My only question is if this goes to a trial by jury, what are the chances of getting a jury filled with Lance sympathizers? (my guess is a defense atty will weed out the obvious haters)
 
sartain said:
It's articles like this, Hog, that lead me to believe that in the end LA will skate.
Nah no chance. Put it this way. Imagine the Feds drop the investigation. Floyd has only scratched the surface in terms of talking to the media. He'll dump the rest and so will everyone else. Lance won't survive. Floyd never expected the Feds to be involved. For him it was always a personal redemption issue then a sporting anti-doping issue. So much hasn't come out becomes the Feds have secured the testimony and the evidence. If the case is dropped do you really think Lance will jump about and say "see I told ya I'm clean!" ? No chance. People are not scared of him anymore and his weight in cycling is zero. He can't pull the strings like he used to.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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thehog said:
People are not scared of him anymore and his weight in cycling is zero. He can't pull the strings like he used to.
Yeah, have you noticed that ever since he's turned into cycling's version of O.J., he's turned his focus to triathlon? They're not a very discriminating lot, and they seem to be hanging on that nut for dear life.
 
Desperation at best from the Armstrong camp.

Some supporting evidence:

The investigation wouldn't have gone on this long without compelling and motivating iron clad evidence.

Novitsky has a handicap in that the breadcrumbs provide an easily followed trail.

Armstrong has exhibited a remarkable and ill advised public exhibition of taunting and arrogance, as in, I'm too important and too bad asxed to fall.

His own lack of humility and excessive Hubris will undermine any jury sympathy.

The harder they come, the harder they fall.

In the end, The jury will relish crushing the teflon coating and the transparent and obviously manufactured smug insistence of innocence.

Lance is bush league, able to easily control sport centric allies, but ineffective in the real stakes environment of a Grand Jury. This arena will illuminate the subterfuge and with a preponderance of evidence will clearly indicate guilt to an unbiased jury. This isn't OJ.

The majority of the population doesn't give a hoot who LA is, just another spoiled benefactor, coddled by a greedy industry under corrupt oversight.

Guilty as charged.

Happy Thanksgiving to the Clinic!
 
131313 said:
Yeah, have you noticed that ever since he's turned into cycling's version of O.J., he's turned his focus to triathlon? They're not a very discriminating lot, and they seem to be hanging on that nut for dear life.
Then all the Grand jury testomony will mysteriously start to leak......

Poor Lance. No matter which way you look at it his fried. His name is mud and believe me what matters most to him us what the public thinks....
 
May 26, 2010
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thehog said:
Then all the Grand jury testomony will mysteriously start to leak......

Poor Lance. No matter which way you look at it his fried. His name is mud and believe me what matters most to him us what the public thinks....
only in that they keep giving to his liestrong, but he sure doesn't show he gives a *** about them or anyone for that matter unless i am blind
 
Oct 8, 2010
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thehog said:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gdjG2toELBAG23-SMHLSM2e9GuWg?docId=cf9793db06b8446a81a3b56b13ad24af


Armstrong's popularity, his wealth, his ties to powerful figures including former U.S. presidents, his vehement denials, scores of clean drug tests — and, above all, his status as a cancer survivor and advocate for eradicating the disease — make him an incredibly tough target.
But for those who believe Armstrong cheated, all of those obstacles are less important than striking perhaps the biggest blow to date against performance-enhancing drugs.

"If you're going to aim that high you'd better be sure you have a rock-solid case," said a former federal prosecutor, Laurie Levenson of Loyola University Law School. "Jurors will want more than proof beyond a reasonable doubt when you're trying to bring down one of their heroes. They will want proof beyond any doubt."
It's nice to see a law professor admitting that celebrities get a different standard of justice than your average layperson.

But Lance will never go to trial. He will plead out and then get his PR team to spin it. Lance would never undergo the public humiliation of a trial like Tammy Thomas.
 
TERMINATOR said:
It's nice to see a law professor admitting that celebrities get a different standard of justice than your average layperson.

But Lance will never go to trial. He will plead out and then get his PR team to spin it. Lance would never undergo the public humiliation of a trial like Tammy Thomas.
Sorry, but I don't get the connection.

Two balls between the two of 'em?

Dave.
 
May 14, 2010
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TubularBills said:
Desperation at best from the Armstrong camp.

Some supporting evidence:

The investigation wouldn't have gone on this long without compelling and motivating iron clad evidence.

Novitsky has a handicap in that the breadcrumbs provide an easily followed trail.

Armstrong has exhibited a remarkable and ill advised public exhibition of taunting and arrogance, as in, I'm too important and too bad asxed to fall.

His own lack of hubris will undermine any jury sympathy.

The harder they come, the harder they fall.

In the end, The jury will relish crushing the teflon coating and the transparent and obviously manufactured smug insistence of innocence.

Lance is bush league, able to easily control sport centric allies, but ineffective in the real stakes environment of a Grand Jury. This arena will illuminate the subterfuge and with a preponderance of evidence will clearly indicate guilt to an unbiased jury. This isn't OJ.

The majority of the population doesn't give a hoot who LA is, just another spoiled benefactor, coddled by a greedy industry under corrupt oversight.

Guilty as charged.

Happy Thanksgiving to the Clinic!
Lance is no doubt guilty of many things, but I'm pretty sure lack of hubris isn't one of them. I think you mean lack of humility.

Also, people outside the U.S. are clueless about Thanksgiving.

Anyway, I don't think Armstrong is going to skate on this. I mean, it's kind of premature to say, but I think they probably have too much on him and no real reason to let him off the hook. They might offer him some kind of a plea (once they decide what to indict him for), and he might take it, but that hardly constitutes skating.

The real question I have is whether he'll be smart enough not to perjure himself.
 
Maxiton said:
Lance is no doubt guilty of many things, but I'm pretty sure lack of hubris isn't one of them. I think you mean lack of humility.

Also, people outside the U.S. are clueless about Thanksgiving.

Anyway, I don't think Armstrong is going to skate on this. I mean, it's kind of premature to say, but I think they probably have too much on him and no real reason to let him off the hook. They might offer him some kind of a plea (once they decide what to indict him for), and he might take it, but that hardly constitutes skating.

The real question I have is whether he'll be smart enough not to perjure himself.
Thanks, and edit:

"His own lack of humility and excessive Hubris will undermine any jury sympathy."

and as all Americans I share an excessive centricity, with apologies and thanks for the reminder that we live in a 'world.'

+ You can call Lance a lot of things, but you can't call him smart. Perjury forthcoming and yet the lesser of all charges.

and finally, despite the centrism - I would hope the basis is to thank those who inspire, yourself included.

Happy Thanksgiving!
 
Armstrong doesn't have to go to jail for justice to be served.

Once he sees the mountain of evidence against him (again, not something Barry Bonds had to face, which is why he may successfully beat the charges against him) he will have to, if he's smart, cop a plea to stay out of jail.

But for that to happen, he will have to admit to the organized drug program he participated in.

His Tour victories will not be stricken from the record books but they will be seen as fraudulent.

This will lead to everything else falling apart, as he has predicated his whole athletic persona on clean riding.

The fallout just from that will be enough. I'll take that.
 
Berzin said:
Armstrong doesn't have to go to jail for justice to be served.

Once he sees the mountain of evidence against him (again, not something Barry Bonds had to face, which is why he may successfully beat the charges against him) he will have to, if he's smart, cop a plea to stay out of jail.

But for that to happen, he will have to admit to the organized drug program he participated in.

His Tour victories will not be stricken from the record books but they will be seen as fraudulent.

This will lead to everything else falling apart, as he has predicated his whole athletic persona on clean riding.

The fallout just from that will be enough. I'll take that.
As will I.

In the knowledge that this personal humility will exponentially outweigh any public humility.

but, then again, this assumes he has a conscience?

Fail.
 
May 13, 2009
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I don't think Armstrong is going to spend a single day in the can. Nonetheless, justice is being served as we speak. Him being such a raging narcissist SOB, his god-like image has been forever damaged. No one will ever remember him as the great athlete the public thought he was back in the early OOs without ignoring the shadow of doping around him.. And I bet that ****es him off every single day. :p
 
Jun 13, 2010
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thehog said:
Nah no chance. Put it this way. Imagine the Feds drop the investigation. Floyd has only scratched the surface in terms of talking to the media. He'll dump the rest and so will everyone else. Lance won't survive. Floyd never expected the Feds to be involved. For him it was always a personal redemption issue then a sporting anti-doping issue. So much hasn't come out becomes the Feds have secured the testimony and the evidence. If the case is dropped do you really think Lance will jump about and say "see I told ya I'm clean!" ? No chance. People are not scared of him anymore and his weight in cycling is zero. He can't pull the strings like he used to.
Maybe you are right, Hog, as another high-profile Texan, Tom Delay, has now been found guilty of money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering.
 
sartain said:
Maybe you are right, Hog, as another high-profile Texan, Tom Delay, has now been found guilty of money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering.
I had my post on that subject 'cleansed'. Thanks for re-introducing.

This is an excellent example of someone who presumably should be able to pull strings and peddle influence being unable to. Particularly given the Fabiani and PS hired guns for Lance having operated in similar circles.

The amount of money in question ($190k) and timing (2002) not that far off UCI donation amounts and timing.

Dave.
 
Jan 19, 2010
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TubularBills said:
with a preponderance of evidence will clearly indicate guilt to an unbiased jury.
Unfortunately for the prosecutors, they don't get to have a preponderance fo evidence as their standard.

They have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury. If there is one juror that doesn't belive it rises to beyond a reasonable doubt, their case is toast.
 
May 26, 2010
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Fabiani is trying hard to prepare public opinion for the inevitable trial that is coming while slushing through the sewers of republican politics behind the scenes. no doubt we will have adverts of dying cancer children on tv with Lance laying hands and bringing huge smiles to their faces.....
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Archibald said:
some American thing to do with turkeys... quite funny when you consider that this thread is discussing the cooking of a large turkey
I hope that's clenbuterol free turkey!
 
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