Gran Fondo San Diego

[TheDude]

OK,
We did the Gran Fondo today, I figured it was a really good way to get my wife comfortable with huge group riding. We did the 100k rather than 100 mile, since my wife was there. So here is the thing...
If you are going to charge more than 2,000 people $100 each to go on a ride CLOSE THE STREETS. They closed about the first 8 miles, but after that it was no traffic control. When finishing, we were in conflict with traffic coming to a baseball game, I saw several near misses. If there had been a fatality, that would be the end of the series in San Diego I am sure. I have other observations, but they are petty. Riding on closed roads is for safety. I have ridden most of the same route before on open roads, and that is what I will do in the future and keep my money.

 

[BroDeal]

When did Gran Fondo become the "cool" name for a century? Why 100 freaking miles? Anyone who is fit can do that without thinking about it. Why not 130 or 150, something more than the typical Saturday dork ride?

 

[Race Radio]

When did Gran Fondo become the "cool" name for a century? Why 100 freaking miles? Anyone who is fit can do that without thinking about it. Why not 130 or 150, something more than the typical Saturday dork ride?

Exactly.

Make it hard. At least 10,000 feet of climbing with good roads. This is the way Gran Fondo's and Sportifs started. They were small events with the best courses, Marmotte, Maratona, Novi Colle, etc. The result was a huge increase in participatory cycling.

Taking $100 to ride junk does more harm then good.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Missing The Point

You guys are missing the point.

The number of people that can knock out 100 miles without much trouble is very small and not very wealthy relative to the number of people that are 'aiming high' attempting a 100K. Americans just aren't healthy enough to do lots of altitude and have large, urban turnout.

Enough gear to do cycling regularly is +/- USD $5000 or more. I think the fees are going to go up, not down. Many of us will be scratching our heads and wondering why people like to pay so much, but they will.

The logistics of closing the return streets would be weird and the hours long. Closing streets is expensive. I agree it should have been done or at least better managed relative to the other event. Hopefully the promoter will arrange things differently.

What's an estimate of the number of attendees, 2000? That's good. I wonder how long it took 'fun rides' that have been around for a long while to get to 2000 people. Timed sections too, right?

 

[BroDeal]

You guys are missing the point.

The number of people that can knock out 100 miles without much trouble is very small and not very wealthy relative to the number of people that are 'aiming high' attempting a 100K. Americans just aren't healthy enough to do lots of altitude and have large, urban turnout.

Enough gear to do cycling regularly is +/- USD $5000 or more. I think the fees are going to go up, not down. Many of us will be scratching our heads and wondering why people like to pay so much, but they will.

With apologies to the OP for going off on a tangent--I figure The Dude abides --but I think you are wrong here. You do not have to be that fit to do a hundred miles. Centuries are full of punters who are thirty pounds overweight that have no problem with the distance.

My gripe is this: There seems to be a bunch of Gran Fondos popping up around the country that are being standardized on a 100 miles distance. I think they are throwing away an opportunity. Instead of creating a century with a new name, they should be creating interesting and challenging routes. The events should be somewhere in between a century and racing. The goal should be to create something with an allure akin to Ironman triathlons. That cannot be done with a weak ass 100 mile route.

 

[DirtyWorks]

You do not have to be that fit to do a hundred miles. Centuries are full of punters who are thirty pounds overweight that have no problem with the distance.
.

Because you and your general social circle can knock them out and are in a very small minority of extremely fit humans. Those 30lb overweight rider are considered 'really into' cycling and 'fit' by their many non-cycling friends.

That 100 is a BIG number for very many outside the competitive sport. It's like 26.2 mi. to runners. People riding doubles are plain crazy to most armchair athletes. Might as well be RAAM. Seriously. It's just my daily life is now all people who can't imagine riding 100 mi. As in, "how/why did you do that?" That's the norm.

Gran Fondo attendees won't try what for us would be a worthy challenge. They would view as a death march. The promoter wouldn't do very well in paid attendance for a century with tough climbing.

I actually agree with you. I just think you aren't thinking like a 'personal record' event promoter.

 

[excelerator]

For those wanting more than a century, stay tuned for more info on our Park City Gran Fondo event in Utah. 170 miles climbing to 10,000 feet. We're really going to put the "gran" in gran fondo! 50 and 100 miles options too. http://www.teamexcelerator.com.

 

[El Oso]

I did this the first two years at it was terrible. Putting riders on bad roads, i.e. lots of potholes combined with railroad track crossings at perpendicular to 45 degrees, which is a really bad idea when you have century riders. Not to mention a sheer lack of organization including running out of water at rest stops. Add all this in with the dangers of century rides without much experience in a pack and you have a bad combo.

IMO it is over hyped, but then again I did go by the expo yesterday to play around and look at the manufacturer's displays.

 

[El Oso]

When did Gran Fondo become the "cool" name for a century? Why 100 freaking miles? Anyone who is fit can do that without thinking about it. Why not 130 or 150, something more than the typical Saturday dork ride?

When in doubt follow the money. They can sell a lot more entries for $100 (or VIP entries for $300+) by making people think it is more Italian. I'll admit to falling for it at first. The crowd they are going for is the "punters" who are 30 pounds overweight, but ride a Pinarello Dogma with Super Record (or Di2 to be clueless about how to make the bike classy) and Liqhtweights for a century, i.e. they have plenty of money to spare.

 

[mikeNphilly]

If 100 miles of roads were closed in any city area, the cost of your 100 mile ride would probably be $1000. The organization has to pay the overtime for the police, cities don't do that for free anymore. Plus block off 100 miles of road would cause a riot by the car people. 5 miles of road is blocked off every Saturday and Sunday in Philly, and it causes a good bit of traffic jam from people losing an artery into and out of the city.

As far as making the Gran Fondo some epic, high elevation gain ride, how many people would actually come and do it. The point of these things is to make money, and to promote cycling to the masses....to make more money. In the Philadelphia Bike Club I doubt the are many people that have the time to ride 200 miles, I think our longest ride of the year is 125 miles, Philly to NY. A few do double centuries but that is a small, small minority. High Elevation gain around Philly is hard to acheive as well. The Gran Fondo route had around 6K of climing in 100 miles. Plus having these long rides, would call for more volunteers or paid people to man the rest stops and such, which would drive up the cost of the ride.

They let people get to ride the 100 mile "barrier" , compete in a KOM, and have some fun. A fact I'm sure you all get. A small minority of the people that do these are race guys/gals, the rest are weekend/weekday riders(such as myself), ride a few thousand miles a year but really don't have time to train for racing(in my case, I don't even want to race.)

I look foward to the one in Philly, the roads will only be closed maybe 5-10 miles, then we hit some busy roads, but those roads are where the climbs are. I would do the epic ride if there was one availble to me, just to see if I could do it, and there are a few around the country I know, but I don't think the masses would try it...course I could be wrong.

 

[flicker]

I say promote fun and fitness. If you want a hard ride do the death ride, santa cruz mountain challange ,king ridge grandfondo, whatever, many in California.

However make it fun and inside of peoples abilitys.

 

[Race Radio]

Closed roads would be a challenge. Even most of the best European GF's are run on only semi closed roads.

The problem we have in the states is the large spread between USCF racing and century riders. There is a rapidly growing group of riders who have no interest in parking lot crits or dodging 250 pound Freds with helmet mirrors and Livestrong jerseys. GF's have the chance of filling this void but if they are just another money grab with crappy courses and support they will do more harm then good.

Hopefully organizers will jump on this growing interest and develop events around great courses, like Levi's race, and not just access to population centers and hotel rooms.

 

[ElChingon]

Closed roads in the USA for bike races/rides/grand-fondo's is a pipe dream and you all know it. If any of you have tried to put a race on, on even semi-closed roads is a major headache, not to mention the insurance costs. Unless you have just won the lotto and want to donate some money to such an event, bring it!

There are some rides/tours or what ever you want to call them that are on semi-closed roads, the semi being they don't make you stop at stop signs and lights because someone is always at an intersection making sure you get through before traffic, that's as close to a closed course that I have seen or been a part of.

 

[BroDeal]

For those wanting more than a century, stay tuned for more info on our Park City Gran Fondo event in Utah. 170 miles climbing to 10,000 feet. We're really going to put the "gran" in gran fondo! 50 and 100 miles options too. http://www.teamexcelerator.com.

Do you have a date in mind? I will probably in the area.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Closed roads would be a challenge. Even most of the best European GF's are run on only semi closed roads.

The problem we have in the states is the large spread between USCF racing and century riders. There is a rapidly growing group of riders who have no interest in parking lot crits or dodging 250 pound Freds with helmet mirrors and Livestrong jerseys. GF's have the chance of filling this void but if they are just another money grab with crappy courses and support they will do more harm then good.

Hopefully organizers will jump on this growing interest and develop events around great courses, like Levi's race, and not just access to population centers and hotel rooms.

Totally agree. I have a friend back in my home state of MN who for the last 4 years has held an event called the Almanzo Hundo, 100 miles of gravel roads.. For this year he added an optional 'Royal 162', also manages to work 3 jobs, promote his ride and 4 other MN events that combine into a series that he created. This is one man mind you, with a little help from his family and friends. The guy has 800+ people showing up this year and has never charged a dime, ever!

What's going on in grassroots racing and rides in this country sure is impressive if you take a hard look. I'm sure events like Almanzo have USA Cycling scratching their heads in bewilderment. Those Gran Fondos have their place, but kind of like a really dumb parade if you ask me, and I've heard far more negative reports of the San Diego event than positive. There's so much more fun to be had out there than what events like the SD GF is offering.

 

[BroDeal]

The problem we have in the states is the large spread between USCF racing and century riders. There is a rapidly growing group of riders who have no interest in parking lot crits or dodging 250 pound Freds with helmet mirrors and Livestrong jerseys. GF's have the chance of filling this void but if they are just another money grab with crappy courses and support they will do more harm then good.

Yup. I think there is a good opportunity for something in between. The trick would be to choose routes that are challenging but not too challenging.

I do not buy into this idea that they need to be centuries with a fancy name or too few people will do them. There are already a bazillion centuries. Ironman tris do not have a problem filling up, and those take most participants eleven to seventeen hours. WTC is not making them shorter to encourage more punters to do them. The length of the event is a big part of the allure. LOTOJA has a lottery and that is a tad over 200 miles. The citzen category is popular. I won't mention the people who do it as a relay team because that is just freakin' lame. Heck, if I want to do the Wasatch 100 again then I would have to go through a bloody lottery becuse there are too many sick people who want to run a hundred miles on crappy rock strewn trails.

Because you and your general social circle can knock them out and are in a very small minority of extremely fit humans. Those 30lb overweight rider are considered 'really into' cycling and 'fit' by their many non-cycling friends.

That 100 is a BIG number for very many outside the competitive sport. It's like 26.2 mi. to runners.

Not buying it. Centuries are filled with people who are far from extremely fit. They may not be very fast and they may suffer during the last twenty, but they manage. I think that longer distance could provide a target event for a lot more people than you think.

The recreational side of the sport is filled with Walter Mittys who do not race but like to live the lifestyle as though they do. Those are the people who are laying down big bucks for high end gear. Their numbers dwarf the forty thousand people with licenses. And contrary to popular belief, those guys do ride--a lot.

 

[TheDude]

Closed roads in the USA for bike races/rides/grand-fondo's is a pipe dream and you all know it. If any of you have tried to put a race on, on even semi-closed roads is a major headache, not to mention the insurance costs. Unless you have just won the lotto and want to donate some money to such an event, bring it!

There are some rides/tours or what ever you want to call them that are on semi-closed roads, the semi being they don't make you stop at stop signs and lights because someone is always at an intersection making sure you get through before traffic, that's as close to a closed course that I have seen or been a part of.

OK, fair enough, I was a bit cheesed off having watched many near accidents. I would have been happy with semi-closed. After the first few miles there was NO police control, we stopped at every light for traffic, mostly rode shoulder bike lanes, but in sections just narrow shoulders. The closest thing to police control at the end was stopping the cyclists to allow cars to turn left to get to the ballpark. OK, it gave my wife the experience or riding in a big pack, but we would have had a safer ride going out on course the day before and riding it alone, because there would not have been angry motorists whizzing by sounding their horn for miles because there were groups of bikes on THEIR road. Much of the route was multi-lane in each direction. On a Sunday morning, closing one lane for the riders would not have caused traffic problems except at the ballpark nor cost the $200,000+ that they collected.

And yeah, most of the observations by folks on here about who was riding was true, and I will admit to being older, fatter, and slower that I was 20 years ago, but I would not have had the cash then.

I do want to give full respect to a kid of probably about 10 who rode the 60 miler on a 20" tyre mountain bike with his mother. I saw them near the start and come in at the finish in under 6 hours.

 

[Finbouy]

Gripe, whinge, mumble..

Did you enjoy it? Did you?

All that I've read so far is a whinge about closed roads and the need for greater distance..

You're surely missing the whole point of this.. And thats to get folks out on the roads in groups riding bikes, enjoying the weather, feeling a little more like an Italian and seeing some really sexy bikes and people along the way. All will have ridden off some "weight", all will have pushed themselves further than they normally would, all will have made some new friends along the way..

What, really, whats not to love about events like this???

 

[Benotti69]

Totally agree. I have a friend back in my home state of MN who for the last 4 years has held an event called the Almanzo Hundo, 100 miles of gravel roads.. For this year he added an optional 'Royal 162', also manages to work 3 jobs, promote his ride and 4 other MN events that combine into a series that he created. This is one man mind you, with a little help from his family and friends. The guy has 800+ people showing up this year and has never charged a dime, ever!

What's going on in grassroots racing and rides in this country sure is impressive if you take a hard look. I'm sure events like Almanzo have USA Cycling scratching their heads in bewilderment. Those Gran Fondos have their place, but kind of like a really dumb parade if you ask me, and I've heard far more negative reports of the San Diego event than positive. There's so much more fun to be had out there than what events like the SD GF is offering.

give some publicity and put his website, if he has one, link for peeps

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

give some publicity and put his website, if he has one, link for peeps

http://www.almanzo100.com/index.html

http://raceforthecup.blogspot.com/

http://vimeo.com/13189748

 

[excelerator]

Do you have a date in mind? I will probably in the area.

July 30th. Just finishing up the website update and registration details.

Shoot me an e-mail if you'd like and I'll get you on the mailing list. teamexcelerator@gmail.com

 

[DirtyWorks]

Yup. I think there is a good opportunity for something in between. The trick would be to choose routes that are challenging but not too challenging.

This is the niche gravel road rides can fit into.

I do not buy into this idea that they need to be centuries with a fancy name or too few people will do them. There are already a bazillion centuries.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying 10,000 feet of climbing over 100+ miles isn't the draw for casual cyclists you think it is.

Ironman tris do not have a problem filling up, and those take most participants eleven to seventeen hours. WTC is not making them shorter to encourage more punters to do them. The length of the event is a big part of the allure. LOTOJA has a lottery and that is a tad over 200 miles. The citzen category is popular. I won't mention the people who do it as a relay team because that is just freakin' lame. Heck, if I want to do the Wasatch 100 again then I would have to go through a bloody lottery becuse there are too many sick people who want to run a hundred miles on crappy rock strewn trails.

Triathlon is the example that junks my opinion. Agreed. But examine running a little closer. In terms of participation, before you get to Wasatch 100, the pool of participants is much, much bigger at marathon distances and bigger still at 1/2 marathon and bigger still at 10K. Runners doing marathon distance is a gigantic population compared to 100 mile runners. All U.S. cycling is still infinitesimal compared to running participation. I don't think it's good reasoning to compare the two.

Not buying it. Centuries are filled with people who are far from extremely fit. They may not be very fast and they may suffer during the last twenty, but they manage. I think that longer distance could provide a target event for a lot more people than you think.

You may be right. I'd love to collect some facts on the number of participants at non-competitive events nation-wide to see what is going on.

 

[Race Radio]

I am not sure longer is necessarily better. I have no desire to ride 10 hours. I do it once a year and have desire to do it more often then that.

As long as we are tossing out our dream routes I prefer riding super hard for 5-7 hours. After 7 hours the possibility of a bad day increases. Multiple climbs of 1,500-3,000 feet of vertical is better then 2 big 4-5,000 foot climbs.

You would be surprised how many riders are interested in these types of events. I have a group of friends, all former racers, who have little interest in USCF racing. We are looking for a fun, competitive outlet. At this point it looks like endurance Mtn biking is our best bet as the road side is sparse.

On the positive side this looks like a fun event, too bad I will be traveling. http://www.letapeducalifornia.com/

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.almanzo100.com/index.html

http://raceforthecup.blogspot.com/

http://vimeo.com/13189748

That looks like a blast

 

[BroDeal]

Triathlon is the example that junks my opinion. Agreed.

I think triathlon has done a really good job at building a brand name for itself. I think that if people are going to start using the term gran fondo in the U.S. then there should be some effort to define it as something different than a century, sort of a next step up. Ideally there would be a a bunch of marque events that people would be willing to travel to do.

I think the time is ripe for a next step up. I bump into people training for PB100 who have never done a mountain bike race before. On at least one occasion, the dude did not even own an MTB before deciding to do Leadville. There are a lot of middle aged yuppie types who are looking to prove that they have still got it. If you could somehow capture the imagination of those people then there would be the support for more difficult events.