[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

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LukeSchmid said:
Who are the 10 sprinters?
Who are the 3 cobbled riders?
Who are the 2 puncheurs?
I only counted Gerrans and Albasini as puncheurs. Perhaps Simon Clarke could be in that category as well. Langeveld, O'Grady and Vaitkus as cobbled riders. ACF already listed the sprinters but I included Beppu as well.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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maltiv said:
I only counted Gerrans and Albasini as puncheurs. Perhaps Simon Clarke could be in that category as well. Langeveld, O'Grady and Vaitkus as cobbled riders. ACF already listed the sprinters but I included Beppu as well.
Okay........
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Ferminal said:
Hasn't stopped teams in the past, unless it's somewhere in the regulations it would be a bit unfair to change it after a group has put 2 years into working its way into the system as things are.
well it would be, but after the astana sponsorship fiasco, the pegasus **** up, and the situation with leopard having to merge due to lack of sponsors, the auditors might play hard ball.

That said, i dont see any issue with them getting a wt licence. McQuaid wants it, and generally, if Paddy wants, Paddy gets
 
Jul 30, 2009
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Gerry Ryan and his company Jayco have been long time supporters of Australian Cycling. A sensible investment given that the domestic market is the largest customer of their product, (Caravans, RV's and related recreational vehicles), but with Greenedge looking to compete on a World stage as the first Australian Pro-Tour Team, what return can he expect on his investment? Jayco don't appear as a named sponsor, (as yet, this may change with the jersey design being released soon), with the Team instead being known everywhere as Greenedge. But, even if the Jayco brand was promoted as the title sponsor, what good would it do the company in markets where it's impossible to buy their products?

Ryan may quickly find that while sponsoring Cycling at a National level offers a great return for a relatively small investment, it's a whole different game when you're competing in the Pro-Tour. Greenedge are building a solid squad of riders who deserve a stable Team that they can grow towards future success with but the current sponsorship structure, where they will ride at the pleasure of one man doesn't seem to support this happening. Gerry Ryan may very quickly realise that this is a far bigger project and cost than he could hope to gain any advantage from. Can you think of any company that would see any benefit in stepping in to pick up the bill if Ryan & Jayco re-focus their support to National level cycling? Imagine how bad the Pegasus collapse would have been if they'd had a couple of seasons racing under their belts. This is potentially what we face with Greenedge.


Sorry if this has been posted before!

http://hub.velocentric.com/bmc-leopard-trek-greenedge-dont-kid-yourself
 
craig1985 said:
I'm sorry Libertine, how is GreenEDGE who want a majority of Australian riders any different from Euskaltel Euskadi or Athletic Bilbao who both have a Basque-only policy (or in the case of Samu, rode there in the EE feeder teams as a U/23, the same applies for Athletic Bilbao if somebody who is born in a different part of Spain, but grew up in the region and joined their various junior set-ups)? They're an Australian team, I don't see how there is anything wrong in wanting to have a majority from their own country.

Not that I agree with some of their signings, I don't see what Tuft has to offer compared to Bobridge or the Meyer brothers, and look to see and get some decent riders who are looking for spots after the Radio Shack - Leopard Trek merger, Thomas Rohregger for one.
Euskaltel (& Athletic Bilbao) are competing in a marketplace where there are options. There is competition between various teams, and therefore a prospective rider (or player) can choose his team based on what suits him best (whether it be emotional or careerist choices). Caja Rural and Movistar are both based in Navarre, and both are more or less local teams (and have feeders in the Basque-Navarrese amateur scene that is so important to Spanish cycling). For example, Mikel Nieve's local team is in fact Movistar, as he's from Leitza, but as a Basque Euskaltel is his preference. And again with the footballers, Athletic Bilbao have the "Basques only" policy, but a prospective player who doesn't fit in there can easily fit in at Real Sociedad or Osasuna and play at the same level.

With the pseudo-national teams like Sky and GreenEdge (and Astana and Katyusha too) there is a sense of cutting off that supply of other options; where does an aspiring young British cyclist go? There is nothing between the third tier domestic teams and Team Sky in Britain, and Team Sky's being so intrinsically tied to British Cycling means they almost NEED to have all the big British names regardless of whether they'd fit (see the expectation of Cavendish being brought in, and how that would trample on the new-found GC toes of Froome and Wiggins). Plus, of course, it might make teams more reluctant to take them on knowing that as soon as they show promise the Sky chequebook will be waved at them. GreenEdge have the same problem, but to a lesser extent in that there are already a LOT of established Australian riders in a wide array of teams, so an aspiring Australian emerging from the domestic scene will perhaps find it easier to look elsewhere if they don't fit GreenEdge than a Briton looking beyond Team Sky.

It is also that it is perhaps partially GreenEdge's fault that they are the only Australian top tier team, since they allegedly sabotaged the Pegasus project. It would have been much better for Australian cycling, if having a national team was the goal, to have two competing ones, because it drives the level up because of competition, and it means that Australian prospects coming through the ranks can choose where they want to go based on what's best for them. The same as how hot Basque prospects like Jonathan Castroviejo and Beñat Intxausti have hotfooted it across to Egüés to ride for the other WorldTour team in the area.

I suppose the thing is, Athletic and Euskaltel are wilfully limiting their potential intake inside a competitive marketplace. GreenEdge and Sky are marketplace killers, they don't have "Aussies only" or "Brits only" policies, they have international rosters. But they do have the ability to dominate the national market to the extent that choice is restricted to "join our team and be shaped by our goals whether they suit you or not, or take huge gambles and risks on something way different".

Whether they actually live up to this rather apocalyptic viewpoint is another question, of course, but it would be very interesting to see how many Russian talents have come through to the top level outside the Katyusha net in the last three years. Russians at Katyusha is an example of what can happen when you basically own the entire marketplace, and what I'd be afraid of happening at GreenEdge.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Libertine Seguros said:
There is nothing between the third tier domestic teams and Team Sky in Britain,
although there is an awful lot of chatter going on that at least one of the british conti teams is looking to make the step up to pro conti for next season.

From the list
Endura Racing
Motorpoint Pro-Cycling Team
Rapha Condor-Sharp
Sigma Sport-Specialized
Team Raleigh

Endura racing would seem the obvious choice. Brian Smith has a lot of contacts throughout europe, they get some pretty good invites already, and as a pro conti team they could get some really good race invites. they Would need to increase their roster though, although at 15-16 riders they are one of the bigger conti teams.
 
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The likes of Andy Fenn and Adam Blythe have shown that even with Sky around young Brits can, and will get WT rides with teams other than Sky.

Also, riders like Scott Thwaites and Erick Rowsell getting good races at Endura before hopefully stepping up.

Plenty of places for young Brits to ride, and get good races, other than Sky.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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TeamSkyFans said:
although there is an awful lot of chatter going on that at least one of the british conti teams is looking to make the step up to pro conti for next season.

From the list
Endura Racing
Motorpoint Pro-Cycling Team
Rapha Condor-Sharp
Sigma Sport-Specialized
Team Raleigh

Endura racing would seem the obvious choice. Brian Smith has a lot of contacts throughout europe, they get some pretty good invites already, and as a pro conti team they could get some really good race invites. they Would need to increase their roster though, although at 15-16 riders they are one of the
bigger conti teams.

I know they're Irish, but An Post has also been a decent stepping stone for young Brits too in recent years.

Don't forget Farnese Vini ;)
 
hatcher said:
The likes of Andy Fenn and Adam Blythe have shown that even with Sky around young Brits can, and will get WT rides with teams other than Sky.

Also, riders like Scott Thwaites and Erick Rowsell getting good races at Endura before hopefully stepping up.

Plenty of places for young Brits to ride, and get good races, other than Sky.
But, if they're successful, then the chances are Sky will be there to grab them back. Dowsett went to Trek-Livestrong because he'd get a better calendar than the domestic one, but as soon as any promise, back into the Sky umbrella he goes. And I have to say, Ian Stannard probably got more from his year at Landbouwkrediet and year at ISD than he could ever have got either on the domestic calendar, or as a totally untested neo-pro at Sky (unless, like with Kennaugh, they have high expectations of him).

How many Britons are there at the top 2 levels outside of Team Sky?

There's:
Bellis (now likely without a contract, severely injured of course)
Blythe (took the gamble of relocating to Belgium as an amateur)
Cavendish
Hammond (long pre-dates the Sky movement for cycling)
Lloyd (journeyman, probably not long for the top 2 ranks anymore, pre-dates the Sky movement)
Millar (pre-dates the Sky movement)
Wegelius (long persona non grata with British Cycling, retiring now anyway).

That's actually more than I expected. But the acid test will be, how many will there be in a couple of years' time, once the journeymen and elder riders like Lloyd and Hammond are gone - Sky have been keen to take pretty much every successful Brit from wherever they are (Wiggins, Swift).

I like the sound of Endura stepping up, however. I think that will be good for British cycling, because it will give an alternative route to the top that doesn't require such a leap of faith as that which had to be taken by the likes of Blythe, Faiers and Metcalfe.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
But, if they're successful, then the chances are Sky will be there to grab them back. Dowsett went to Trek-Livestrong because he'd get a better calendar than the domestic one, but as soon as any promise, back into the Sky umbrella he goes. And I have to say, Ian Stannard probably got more from his year at Landbouwkrediet and year at ISD than he could ever have got either on the domestic calendar, or as a totally untested neo-pro at Sky (unless, like with Kennaugh, they have high expectations of him).

How many Britons are there at the top 2 levels outside of Team Sky?

There's:
Bellis (now likely without a contract, severely injured of course)
Blythe (took the gamble of relocating to Belgium as an amateur)
Cavendish
Hammond (long pre-dates the Sky movement for cycling)
Lloyd (journeyman, probably not long for the top 2 ranks anymore, pre-dates the Sky movement)
Millar (pre-dates the Sky movement)
Wegelius (long persona non grata with British Cycling, retiring now anyway).

That's actually more than I expected. But the acid test will be, how many will there be in a couple of years' time, once the journeymen and elder riders like Lloyd and Hammond are gone - Sky have been keen to take pretty much every successful Brit from wherever they are (Wiggins, Swift).

I like the sound of Endura stepping up, however. I think that will be good for British cycling, because it will give an alternative route to the top that doesn't require such a leap of faith as that which had to be taken by the likes of Blythe, Faiers and Metcalfe.
One thing about Sky though. With Cummings leaving for BMC and Downing possibly not getting a new contract last I heard (and Hunt too perhaps?) they at least seem willing to let Brits go from the team rather than just accumulate more and more. Also the number of British riders on Sky is tolerable. 8 last year and 10 this year and chances are there will be around that number next year as well. That's much better than if it had been closer to 70% instead.
 
Jul 24, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
But, if they're successful, then the chances are Sky will be there to grab them back. Dowsett went to Trek-Livestrong because he'd get a better calendar than the domestic one, but as soon as any promise, back into the Sky umbrella he goes. And I have to say, Ian Stannard probably got more from his year at Landbouwkrediet and year at ISD than he could ever have got either on the domestic calendar, or as a totally untested neo-pro at Sky (unless, like with Kennaugh, they have high expectations of him).

How many Britons are there at the top 2 levels outside of Team Sky?

There's:
Bellis (now likely without a contract, severely injured of course)
Blythe (took the gamble of relocating to Belgium as an amateur)
Cavendish
Hammond (long pre-dates the Sky movement for cycling)
Lloyd (journeyman, probably not long for the top 2 ranks anymore, pre-dates the Sky movement)
Millar (pre-dates the Sky movement)
Wegelius (long persona non grata with British Cycling, retiring now anyway).

That's actually more than I expected. But the acid test will be, how many will there be in a couple of years' time, once the journeymen and elder riders like Lloyd and Hammond are gone - Sky have been keen to take pretty much every successful Brit from wherever they are (Wiggins, Swift).

I like the sound of Endura stepping up, however. I think that will be good for British cycling, because it will give an alternative route to the top that doesn't require such a leap of faith as that which had to be taken by the likes of Blythe, Faiers and Metcalfe.
A number of the bigger British teams are now riding pretty good continental programs. Certainly a better proving ground for the young talent than there was previously.

Andy Fenn is a good parallel to Ian Stannard. Similar types of riders, who were both better served racing in Belgian races than in England at the start of their careers. The natural progression for Stannard was to move up a level at just the same time Sky came around, so that was a natural fit. Sky were interested in Fenn, but ultimately he chose another direction; even so, he was still race leader for GB at the WC (over Sky new boy Luke Rowe).

Also, Steve Cummings, who would make any all-British nine man squad is leaving Sky for BMC. I think their signings have shown they are not interested purely in British riders, they are interested in good riders. Same as every other team. Jeremy Hunt is probably the only signing they have made that could conceivably be labeled a home signing, and I believe that signing was based less on his nationality, and more on them knowing his character and strengths.

In all honesty I think in their 2 years of existence Sky have shown any fears about them being overly nationalistic, or of favouring British riders over foreigners in race situations, were totally unfounded.
 
Apr 14, 2010
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TeamSkyFans said:
well it would be, but after the astana sponsorship fiasco, the pegasus **** up, and the situation with leopard having to merge due to lack of sponsors, the auditors might play hard ball.

That said, i dont see any issue with them getting a wt licence. McQuaid wants it, and generally, if Paddy wants, Paddy gets
One team has absolutely nothing to do with the other so Im sure the auditors will judge GE on its merits - which will include a team ranked around 12, a structure based off/the background of a national federation and the running of a u/23 team for more than a decade, DS's with PT experience, wages covered by a bank guarantee....

Connecting GE's chances to the Pegasus disaster is nonsense. Or should Sky have been knocked back because Linda McCartney fell over? Would make just as much sense.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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posted by insgve

'The problem is that if they get WT status they would be forced to ride races like Liège–Bastogne–Liège which is why some of us are complaining about their sprint/cobbled strategy. It wouldn't be a problem if they were pro continental but as a WT team you have to race all WT races'

could not agree with you more !

In fact as a team you have to be a jack of all trades and a master of none, or do not put all the eggs into one basket !

as I said to someone there is more to cycling than the Paris-Roubaix and the Milan-San Remo.
 
I would say that calling them sprint/cobbles team is a little kind. They have a couple of second-rate guys for the cobbles.

Only wondered about this today - anyone know why its called GreenEdge? Is there some meaning behind it?
 
May 27, 2010
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luckyboy said:
I would say that calling them sprint/cobbles team is a little kind. They have a couple of second-rate guys for the cobbles.

Only wondered about this today - anyone know why its called GreenEdge? Is there some meaning behind it?
I assume it's the name they gave the company managing the team or they just thought it sounded cool
 
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luckyboy said:
I would say that calling them sprint/cobbles team is a little kind. They have a couple of second-rate guys for the cobbles.

Only wondered about this today - anyone know why its called GreenEdge? Is there some meaning behind it?
A Paris Roubaix winner, with a 5th as well plus a 3rd and 10th at Flanders and another rider who has finished 5th at Flanders and another who has finished 6th at Flanders. Not in Cancellara's or Boonen's class, so I guess strictly they are second rate, but I think they have a descent chance at getting top 5 or top 10 at both races and to be one of the more visible teams.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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bicing said:
there has been A lot of talk about climbing specialists in greenedge and think now we can finally confirm one!!!!!!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wilson-breaks-hand-on-tour-of-bejing-eve

if you read the bolded article descriptionyou can clrearly see who the climbing specialist is!!!!!! ;)
What a joke, Wilson is a domestique, certainly is not a climber. He is probably closer to being a cobbled rider seeing he as a 20th place at Flanders, ;).
 
Jul 30, 2009
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luckyboy said:
Only wondered about this today - anyone know why its called GreenEdge? Is there some meaning behind it?
No idea.

Here's a sponsor which is a good fit though;

 
Nov 23, 2009
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LukeSchmid said:
What a joke, Wilson is a domestique, certainly is not a climber. He is probably closer to being a cobbled rider seeing he as a 20th place at Flanders, ;).
You just watch, Weening and Wilson will tear up the penultimate stage of the Giro like Piepoli and Cobo in the 2008 Tour. The difference is that while Piepoli and Cobo used PEDs, Weening and Wilson, with the help of GreenEdge Cycling, found the edge, the way to improve, the way to win. And that edge in cycling is green.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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Quote from Beppu; "I'm honoured to be part of this team, which has been 20 years in the making by the best in Australian cycling."

Serious? It all looks as though it's been pretty much thrown together last minute. :eek:
 
Andy99 said:
Quote from Beppu; "I'm honoured to be part of this team, which has been 20 years in the making by the best in Australian cycling."

Serious? It all looks as though it's been pretty much thrown together last minute. :eek:
Well that is what people like Bannan have said, Bannan, Stephens, Ryan, White etc, all been involved in Australian cycling for that long.
 

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