[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

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Apr 10, 2011
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Cancellera is likely to stay with Trek though, very small chances of signing with other team.

Porte signed 2 year extension, hence he's out. Evans is not going get better, so that would be a bad signing.

They have been linked with Ulissi this year, which would be solid signing for them.

Also linked with Uran, but OPQS seemingly won that battle.
 
gooner said:
I think this team is a bit a crossroads now. They have had some big wins but regarding a GC hope, they are non-existent and invisible. Grand coming into the sport initially with the hope of doing more in some of the classics and getting stage wins in the bigger races but eventually you are going to have to evolve with time. And I say something if they had an A-list sprinter who can rack up the wins but the way Goss is performing he is anything but. Only if they were winning like this would it been anyway justified.

Porte is out of the question for at least another year and a half and even if they were to go down the GC route one big signing wouldn't be enough as more domestique supporting riders suited to this would have to be acquired also. Currently they don't have many riders of that ilk either and so it would have to be a big undertaken if they were go along this path now.
Cam Meyer, Weening and Simon Clarke should be able to do something to help out a decent GC guy, just don't rely on them to be a great mountain dom. If OGE got a decent GC guy and Ulissi they could have a go.
 
Oct 2, 2012
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karlboss said:
Tend to agree, unless Goss and Gerrans are firing, this team is hoping for a little luck in the big races. They are still capable in the smaller ones. I was messing around with some names, and thought this might be a good team.

CANCELLARA Fabian, TALANSKY Andrew, GERRANS Simon, DURBRIDGE Luke, GOSS Matthew, HAUSSLER Heinrich, DE GENDT Thomas, SLAGTER Tom-Jelte,
LANGEVELD Sebastian, WEENING Pieter, CLARKE Simon, HOWARD Leigh, MEYER Cameron, DOWSETT Alex, KEUKELEIRE Jens, MATTHEWS Michael, O'GRADY Stuart, HAYMAN Mathew, HANSEN Adam, HOWSON Damien, COOKE Baden, MCCARTHY Jay, EWAN Caleb, SULZBERGER Wesley, DOCKER Mitchell, KERBY Jordan, MORTON Lachlan, HEPBURN Michael.

1 expensive signing and a couple of moderately expensive ones, but I think it'd make an impact all year long, maintain an Australian identity, and foster youngsters.
I thought he was rumored to Saxo from 2014? I think OGE should go for GC guy to do the Vuelta/Giro and then let Goss get defeats in the Tour. Ulissi or Talansky would be a good fit, but good luck signing them. Basso on the other hand might be cheap and free. He might have one or 2 giros left in him. Or go for one of the surplus GC riders in Sky - like Dombrowski
 
Apr 10, 2011
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Dombrowski is surplus for Sky ? rofl
He's seen by them as next GT winner. And by many as well. ( beat Aru last year to win Giro bio among others success )

Sky's introduced him gently this year ( as they always do with first years neo pros ). His 2nd year will be expected to actually get a results or two..

Talansky/Ulissi combo ould be great for OGE though. How likely is Talansky to leave? He's comfortable at Garmin and is getting the lead roles as well.
 
Ferminal said:
Either make Goss get his act together or bin him. Stop pretending he's a genuine leader because at the moment he's not. I presume his next contract will be a fraction of his current one.

With so many finishers they will always get wins and will never be the worst in the rankings, but it's hard to be relevant without a genuine leader. They will end up like a Vacansoleil, or Euskaltel for the last 12 months.
Goss has not kicked on like many expected after his Milan San Remo win and pushing Cavendish at the Worlds and in Tour stages. GE need to sign a quality sprinter and a strong classics rider. At the moment victories look unlikely from anywhere except Gerrans. Albasini's season has not been as good as previous years. I don't think they will bother buying a quality GC rider now as that will cost much more unless they find a big sponsor in the future and change the team structure like Sky. Some of the young Aussie riders have been disappointing but they are still pretty young. Goss has been a major disappointment.
 
Jun 11, 2012
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I could care less about OGE having a GC contender at this phase, but I just get tired of them not jumping in breaks with the aim of creating a good sprint train, and either the bloody break wins or Goss/the train doesn't fire
 
Dec 21, 2010
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Yep, I think Goss is of the Tyler Farrar ilk, can win but won't if there is a decent sprinter in the field. He really has stagnated and OGE really rely on him for victories. It will be interesting to see if Howard/Matthews/Koupis can develop further.

It's a shame Porte didn't jump ship, I would have been great having him in the team, they really do need a semi decent GT rider soon and Weening ain't gonna cut it.

It'd be interesting to see when contracts expire who goes. They'll definitely save some $$ of Goss's next contract. Maybe they could think big and splash some cash. Or maybe some teams that fold could provide good targets?
 
Aug 16, 2011
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Agree with what people are saying about Goss (especially Ferminal), Greenedge are screwing themselves putting so much faith in him. They need to put more faith into their younger up and coming sprinters. Like Matthews for example, he could have done very well at Tour Down Under if they had just given him a shot.

I think it might be a mistake for them to invest in a GT rider at the moment. As they don't really have the best team to support a GT guy in the mountains. Maybe if they signed a GT rider that had shown they didn't need as much help on the climbs. I think they would be better off signing a bigger name classics guy though that can get them more wins or podiums in those races. If Blanco ends up folding there's a few guys on that team that would be a good buy for them.
 
Aug 4, 2010
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Afrank said:
Agree with what people are saying about Goss (especially Ferminal), Greenedge are screwing themselves putting so much faith in him. They need to put more faith into their younger up and coming sprinters. Like Matthews for example, he could have done very well at Tour Down Under if they had just given him a shot.

I think it might be a mistake for them to invest in a GT rider at the moment. As they don't really have the best team to support a GT guy in the mountains. Maybe if they signed a GT rider that had shown they didn't need as much help on the climbs. I think they would be better off signing a bigger name classics guy though that can get them more wins or podiums in those races. If Blanco ends up folding there's a few guys on that team that would be a good buy for them.
Nice post,exactly my thoughts.and imo they should buy a better sprinter,like Degenkolb or Demare.

To bolded:Uran or Henao.;)
 
Apr 10, 2011
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ILovecycling said:
Nice post,exactly my thoughts.and imo they should buy a better sprinter,like Degenkolb or Demare.

To bolded:Uran or Henao.;)
Uran is going to OPQS. Henao stays at Sky. Not really a choice between any.

A climber that doesn't need a big support, which is basically any explosive climber.

They don't need a train, as I can't see such situation, so one climber is good enough for them. And they have Meyer/Clarke/Weening offer some help.
 
Afrank said:
Agree with what people are saying about Goss (especially Ferminal), Greenedge are screwing themselves putting so much faith in him. They need to put more faith into their younger up and coming sprinters. Like Matthews for example, he could have done very well at Tour Down Under if they had just given him a shot.

I think it might be a mistake for them to invest in a GT rider at the moment. As they don't really have the best team to support a GT guy in the mountains. Maybe if they signed a GT rider that had shown they didn't need as much help on the climbs. I think they would be better off signing a bigger name classics guy though that can get them more wins or podiums in those races. If Blanco ends up folding there's a few guys on that team that would be a good buy for them.
They need to find out what made Goss win in the past quickly or give him up as a lost cause. I agree with you that they must give the other talents a better chance. But sprinting wise i think they don't have anybody really talented.
The best choice for them is to invest on a GC guy or a mountain goat. The loner type like Betancur, Henao. Classics is more of a longshot. The cobbles are sewed up tight by Boonen, Cancellara and Sagan. For the Ardennes they already have Gerrans.
 
Someone who is competing for 5th-10th doesn't really need help apart from one guy getting him to the bottom of the final climb. There's nothing to say that a team has to have a genuine GT contender anyway. They have enough reasonable riders that fundamentally the team isn't poor, it's more that there is nothing which defines them (in racing terms). Lotto exists as Greipel. Sure they get a bit from Van den Broeck and Roelandts, but both of them could leave and the team would still have a strong purpose. GreenEdge has more depth and ranks higher than Lotto but overall is less impressive.

With their team set up the way it is a marquee sprinter would be perfect for them. Someone who wins 10+ races a year, including a couple of GT stages. They really thought Goss would be that person I guess. Is there a rider management problem?

If you want a leader you have to go and buy one. How many teams today built a rider up from scratch into their a genuine leader, and their #1? Cannondale with Sagan. Maybe they are just waiting for someone to emerge from their sprint train and morph into a top 20 rider.

Who knows, maybe they are happy with things the way they are, or will only accept an Australian leader. I think in cycling though you might not be around for long, best to make the most of it. You can get away with it if you're a French or Italian team who can do very well in local races and you've served a purpose. A bit harder to claim a successful season after winning races in January.
 
Ferminal said:
Someone who is competing for 5th-10th doesn't really need help apart from one guy getting him to the bottom of the final climb. There's nothing to say that a team has to have a genuine GT contender anyway. They have enough reasonable riders that fundamentally the team isn't poor, it's more that there is nothing which defines them (in racing terms). Lotto exists as Greipel. Sure they get a bit from Van den Broeck and Roelandts, but both of them could leave and the team would still have a strong purpose. GreenEdge has more depth and ranks higher than Lotto but overall is less impressive.

With their team set up the way it is a marquee sprinter would be perfect for them. Someone who wins 10+ races a year, including a couple of GT stages. They really thought Goss would be that person I guess. Is there a rider management problem?

If you want a leader you have to go and buy one. How many teams today built a rider up from scratch into their a genuine leader, and their #1? Cannondale with Sagan. Maybe they are just waiting for someone to emerge from their sprint train and morph into a top 20 rider.

Who knows, maybe they are happy with things the way they are, or will only accept an Australian leader. I think in cycling though you might not be around for long, best to make the most of it. You can get away with it if you're a French or Italian team who can do very well in local races and you've served a purpose. A bit harder to claim a successful season after winning races in January.
OGE have at least one guy capable of becoming a top tier sprinter, they are still too young though. Matthews is 22, Howard is 23, Hepburn is 21. These three, especially Matthews are quite capable, especially if they start using Lancaster, Davis and O'Grady as leadout/sprint coaches. In the meantime Kroupis and Goss will keep them relatively competitive. Would be interesting to see Kroupis at the Vuelta.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Unless Goss shows form, I'd be going 3 men for the sprints, 2 x lead out and 1 sprinter, the other 6 stage hunters. It's not worth going all out with a sprint train for someone who's likely to be 3rd or 4th and the OPQS and Lotto sprint trains should work well enough to catch a ride on.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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42x16ss said:
I'd take a risk on Kruopis or Matthews. Young, strong, keen, still developing and worth investing in. Also, it might make Goss start taking things a little more seriously and get back to his HTC form.
Don't send Goss?
 
Is Matthews a pure sprinter or potentially develop into something different; fast but maybe more someone for the classics or stages where the pure sprinters go "seeya later" out the back ? In ToC, he did show a problematic habit of losing the wheels of his team-mates and perhaps a reluctance to mix it in the physical side of things.

Kruopis is rather interesting. He has not been picked for the really big races so far but rather non WT or minor tours however he has shown he IS quick and a propensity to pick up high placings and victories. May be worth a selection for the Vuelta, maybe as the no1 option.

Howard ?? Frankly not sold on him. Last season, he demonstrated a lamentable tendency to drop his bundle (ala his more illustrious team member) and crack the mopes when things started to go against him. He DID pick up some early season wins but his "bottling" of the first sprint at P-N was horrendous. To his credit, he was man enough to confess he screwed it up (something M.Harley has yet to do). He is quick enough to win some races and maybe even an occ GT stage for some team but I don't think he's ever going to be top echelon.

M.Harley Goss ? Talent and pace-wise he's probably in the top handful of sprinters in the business ..... when he's got his s%&t together. Has he had that since joining OGE .... debateable ? Whilst a major factor in Giro & TdF sprints in 2012; in both GTs he showed a propensity to crack the mopes and throw in the towel for following stages after a fall or commisares rulings going against him. Do Chav, Greipel or Sagan engage in this ... or do they get on with business ?

In 2013, Goss has fronted palpably unfit and has been thoroughly uncompetitive. Some illnesses may or not be contributing factors but I suspect there is a strong attitude factor that has ran thru a number (but certainly not all) of the Australian riders at OGE. That of complacency ...... "I'm an Aussie on an Aussie team therefore I have inside running as regards job security"

Unless M.Harley Goss CAN demonstrate due cause as to why his contract should be renewed via performance in the 2nd half of the season; then it will do well for OGE's industry credibility to show him the door "pour le encouragement autres"
 
Apr 10, 2011
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OGE should jsut sign Caleb Ewan and be done with all the drama. Develop him nicely and within a year he could score plenty of wins ala Coquard or Demare this year.

He's the next Robbie McEwen.
 
Gloin22 said:
OGE should jsut sign Caleb Ewan and be done with all the drama. Develop him nicely and within a year he could score plenty of wins ala Coquard or Demare this year.

He's the next Robbie McEwen.
Incredible potential but, with the best will in the world, a few years away from delivering results against the "big boys". Would certainly sign him but not an immediate fix.
 
Apr 10, 2011
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Same could be said about Demare or Coquard though. First year and plenty of wins.

Obviously not immediate fix but get him started on the road to become star.
 
Gloin22 said:
Same could be said about Demare or Coquard though. First year and plenty of wins.

Obviously not immediate fix but get him started on the road to become star.
Ewen and to a lesser extent Jack Richards, look like the real deal. Best not to burn them out too young by forcing expectations on them too early. Let them develop and build in their own time with good guidance.
 
dirkprovin said:
Is Matthews a pure sprinter or potentially develop into something different; fast but maybe more someone for the classics or stages where the pure sprinters go "seeya later" out the back ? In ToC, he did show a problematic habit of losing the wheels of his team-mates and perhaps a reluctance to mix it in the physical side of things.

Kruopis is rather interesting. He has not been picked for the really big races so far but rather non WT or minor tours however he has shown he IS quick and a propensity to pick up high placings and victories. May be worth a selection for the Vuelta, maybe as the no1 option.

Howard ?? Frankly not sold on him. Last season, he demonstrated a lamentable tendency to drop his bundle (ala his more illustrious team member) and crack the mopes when things started to go against him. He DID pick up some early season wins but his "bottling" of the first sprint at P-N was horrendous. To his credit, he was man enough to confess he screwed it up (something M.Harley has yet to do). He is quick enough to win some races and maybe even an occ GT stage for some team but I don't think he's ever going to be top echelon.

M.Harley Goss ? Talent and pace-wise he's probably in the top handful of sprinters in the business ..... when he's got his s%&t together. Has he had that since joining OGE .... debateable ? Whilst a major factor in Giro & TdF sprints in 2012; in both GTs he showed a propensity to crack the mopes and throw in the towel for following stages after a fall or commisares rulings going against him. Do Chav, Greipel or Sagan engage in this ... or do they get on with business ?

In 2013, Goss has fronted palpably unfit and has been thoroughly uncompetitive. Some illnesses may or not be contributing factors but I suspect there is a strong attitude factor that has ran thru a number (but certainly not all) of the Australian riders at OGE. That of complacency ...... "I'm an Aussie on an Aussie team therefore I have inside running as regards job security"

Unless M.Harley Goss CAN demonstrate due cause as to why his contract should be renewed via performance in the 2nd half of the season; then it will do well for OGE's industry credibility to show him the door "pour le encouragement autres"
It would be strange if Matthews doesn't like to mix it up on the run in to a sprint, he's almost as big as Griepel. Plenty of physical presence if he chooses to use it, maybe he needs a few lessons from the likes of Renshaw or McEwen.

Kruopis has shown himself at almost all the smaller races he's gone to, why not give him an opportunity to step up? Best way to see if he's capable.

Howard hasn't impressed me for a while now, seems to have stagnated a little but he's fast and still has age on his side.

Goss needs to do a few smaller races, get back in the groove and start winning again. He's starting to look a little like Allan Davis Mk II - big talent going to waste.
 
Matthews is someone who could win the same stages as Goss, but still has the speed, to sprint on the flat. I'm sure he can continue to develop, this year he had to skip the TDU, when he was in great form and then had to ride a bit for Howard. He was also scheduled to ride the Giro, his first GT, but didn't.
 
That was a bizarre decision by Greenedge. Matthews was flying at the Bay Series and would have been on fire for the TdU. On curent form he probably would have gone better than Goss at the Giro too IMO. With Friere and Renshaw also leaving Rabo last year I think he made a poor decision to goto Greenedge.
 

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