[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

[ciranda]

Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

I need to disagree to what was written on the last page. Magnus is not 'developing well', on the contrary he seems to be not improving at all. A couple of somewhat promising races, the Strade Bianche as a neo, the Tour of Denmark time trial + hard stage last year, Tre Valle Varesine last year, maybe some of the hard stages in the Vuelta as good support, nothing more. I realize he has wins in mass sprints but that is such a limited objective for someone so versatile. I blame the team that send him to races to specifically do mass sprints. He was in Paris-Nice instead of Tirreno-Adriatico with the harder stages there and was not even selected for races like Strade Bianche and Fleche Brabanconne.

Either DS's are happy with him as average mass sprint option or don't care/understand. Magnus should change teams either way.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

I need to disagree to what was written on the last page. Magnus is not 'developing well', on the contrary he seems to be not improving at all. A couple of somewhat promising races, the Strade Bianche as a neo, the Tour of Denmark time trial + hard stage last year, Tre Valle Varesine last year, maybe some of the hard stages in the Vuelta as good support, nothing more. I realize he has wins in mass sprints but that is such a limited objective for someone so versatile. I blame the team that send him to races to specifically do mass sprints. He was in Paris-Nice instead of Tirreno-Adriatico with the harder stages there and was not even selected for races like Strade Bianche and Fleche Brabanconne.

Either DS's are happy with him as average mass sprint option or don't care/understand. Magnus should change teams either way.

Perhaps some degree of merit in what you are saying and indeed we do not know where he will be next season. I WOULD have sent him to Strade Bianche this year but not sure about Brabant; that may be one for future years. He DID also finish 11th at MSR this year, a race where he may contend in future (I certainly see him as being a better chance than TLAS (aka Ewan; hey I think he's a significantly more all round talented rider than TLAS !!).

Where I will sound some difference is with your assertion of being seen purely as a sprint option. This season and last, he was given an outing at most of the main cobbles races (seen as an area where he may shine). He wasn't a "player" to any degree in any of them but its not realistic to expect that as it's generally up to a handful of years experience before most become significant factors in those races.

Has ORS made some mistakes with him ? I think there's a potential case that could be made for that proposition but WHERE is he going to go and necessarily be in a better position. Other teams MAY offer him starts at this race or that ..... but may not be sufficiently resourced to give him the requisite support.

 

[yaco]

Reckon Cort is progressing beautifully and has been well handled by Orica - This year he's been given the opportunity to ride more for himself - Rode all the cobbled races, number one sprint option in Valenciana and Nice - At this stage he is more of a flat cobbled racer so races like Ronde Vlaaanderen and Strade Bianca are unsuited to his skill set - I'd be very surprised if he left Orica - Must say this is one of the strangest posts, I've read on this forum.

 

[tobydawq]

TLAS? Tiny Little Australian Sprinter?

I am not thrilled with the handling of Cort either. He didn't progress at all this year in the classics compared to last year and his skill-set seems to be approaching that of a pure sprinter without the necessary top-end speed. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong later in the season.

 

[yaco]

Re:

TLAS? Tiny Little Australian Sprinter?

I am not thrilled with the handling of Cort either. He didn't progress at all this year in the classics compared to last year and his skill-set seems to be approaching that of a pure sprinter without the necessary top-end speed. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong later in the season.

Cort did progress this year in the classics - He rode in all the major classics as a semi-protected rider which is good for a third year rider - Many a classic rider has performed well in sprints against second tier sprinters in one week stage races - I am unsure what you expect

 

[tobydawq]

Two years ago, he made the initial selection in a very elite group in Strade Bianche as a neo-pro which pretty much showed infinite potential.

Last year, he was in the break in Paris-Roubaix until he had to give his bike to Durbridge.

Otherwise, he has shown nothing in the spring classics. I would have expected him to have evolved from two years ago but I still regard his performance at Strade 2015 as his best in a spring classic and he has not really confirmed that potential.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

The hard question will be choosing which one not to pick? Is it Storer who is the best ITTer of them all/ has the best WT result, or Hindley who has proved he's a great climber, or Hamilton who is insanely strong? Personally i'd sign Storer (just because he seems like he could develop into a pure GC rider) and then have a really hard choice between the other two (if they only pick two out of 3).

Reckon they will sign one rider for 2018 - I suspect it will be Hamilton - Storer is of interest as he is a decent TTer for a potential GC team - Hindley is probably the best pure climber but probably needs more consistency - Stannard is the wild card as he turns 19 in September but already won a stage in a 2.2 race against seasoned pros. Have to think he is still 2 years from WT.

A poster like 42 or Stryder should have more information.

As said above, the young guys coming through have varying skill sets. I think Orica's choice depends on who they can retain. If Plaza doesn't stay around then I suspect that they will look at another rider for rolling hills and medium mountains. If Hayman doesn't ride another year then they will also want some classics support for Keukeleire and Durbridge. Then there's Tuft.

The GC team is starting to look very solid, with Haig, Howson, Verona, Kreuziger and an improving Power so I don't know if they need to spend up on young climbers ATM. The squad has gotten to the point where they don't have to restrict their attention to Australian talent anymore. Other teams will also be looking at these guys and Orica might not even get a look in.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

TLAS? Tiny Little Australian Sprinter?

I am not thrilled with the handling of Cort either. He didn't progress at all this year in the classics compared to last year and his skill-set seems to be approaching that of a pure sprinter without the necessary top-end speed. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong later in the season.

TLAS = The Little Aussie Superstar. Pure snark I know, but basically a reaction to how he's been 'blown up"/hyped by sections of the AUS media

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

The hard question will be choosing which one not to pick? Is it Storer who is the best ITTer of them all/ has the best WT result, or Hindley who has proved he's a great climber, or Hamilton who is insanely strong? Personally i'd sign Storer (just because he seems like he could develop into a pure GC rider) and then have a really hard choice between the other two (if they only pick two out of 3).

Reckon they will sign one rider for 2018 - I suspect it will be Hamilton - Storer is of interest as he is a decent TTer for a potential GC team - Hindley is probably the best pure climber but probably needs more consistency - Stannard is the wild card as he turns 19 in September but already won a stage in a 2.2 race against seasoned pros. Have to think he is still 2 years from WT.

A poster like 42 or Stryder should have more information.

As said above, the young guys coming through have varying skill sets. I think Orica's choice depends on who they can retain. If Plaza doesn't stay around then I suspect that they will look at another rider for rolling hills and medium mountains. If Hayman doesn't ride another year then they will also want some classics support for Keukeleire and Durbridge. Then there's Tuft.

The GC team is starting to look very solid, with Haig, Howson, Verona, Kreuziger and an improving Power so I don't know if they need to spend up on young climbers ATM. The squad has gotten to the point where they don't have to restrict their attention to Australian talent anymore. Other teams will also be looking at these guys and Orica might not even get a look in.

Re GC; Howson is already showing that at worst he is a very valuable & versatile climbing domestique. Whilst its debateable that he will ever be a GT contender in his own right; top 10 finishes at WT stage races aren't out of the question. Far too early to get a realistic gauge on Haig's long term potential but on signs to date, he should at worst be of Howson status. We won't know until later in the year just what value Kreuziger & Verona are actually delivering.

Not sure I'd use the word "improving" with regards to Power given we haven't seen ANY meaningful performances. Its just too early given he lost his neo-pro year and is still really short of condition. He'll almost certainly get another 2 years; late next year we may have a better read on his value. Plaza - would be surprised if he stays.

I think ORS WILL have their eyes on a couple of these touted u23s but I do agree that its likely there will be market interest and its no done deal where they may end up.

As for the end of year/end of contract situation for ORS; this is my current read:

Tuft - almost certain retirement
Gerrans - 80% bet on retirement
Plaza - suspect he won't be retained
Haig - may see some sniffs from other teams but can't see ORS letting him go
Edmondson - similar to Haig, they won't be letting him go
Albasini- if he wants to continue then he'll be re-signed. Possibly another 2 year deal with the second year being an "option"
Keukeleire - his GW 2nd may attract some market interest but he is a rider who the team has brought on and has been very happy in this environment. Would be surprised to see him go unless its $$$$
Cort - may well attract some market interest but I suspect they will not let him go easily unless he has become disenchanted with the team
Juul-Jensen - was probably needing to lift after a rather anonymous 1st season but has most certainly done so with some results in his own right (SB) plus demonstrating versatility with regards to terrain. Suspect he's a stayer unless there's some better $$$ on offer somewhere
Docker - after a couple of injury plagued years, probably needing some results. Has arguably delivered some 2nd level results so far and some useful rides but may be struggling to find a spot in any GT line-ups
Hepburn - probably needing some results in order to be secure and to date has delivered at least one plus demonstrated some wider utility. What may be in his favour will be Tuft's likely retirement and the continued need for such an engine. Rate his retention chances higher than Docker's
Mezgec - tricky to judge. Has delivered some useful 2nd tier results in his own right and is useful over cobbles. What may mitigate against him is ORS' continued move away from bunch sprinting and the need for lead-out men. However, if Kluge continues to be "p'd off" then he may still have a spot until end 2018 when Ewan goes off contract
Lok - barring any new major sponsor being from his part of the world and demanding "representation", he's gone
Power - will get another 2 years to show something unless he decides he wants out

I'm looking at 4 fairly solid "outs" with the potential for maybe 2 others/3-4 at most. This DOES give scope to take on maybe 2 of those touted but exactly who, I would not hazard to guess. Clearly they will also look to give themselves scope to 'dabble in the market' so they clearly won't be going all-in on AUS youngsters

 

[yaco]

Don't pidgeon hole this latest group of young Australian riders - Yes they have climbing characteristics but have shown a bit in the espoir Ardennes type races - Any will be signed for their versatility.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

The hard question will be choosing which one not to pick? Is it Storer who is the best ITTer of them all/ has the best WT result, or Hindley who has proved he's a great climber, or Hamilton who is insanely strong? Personally i'd sign Storer (just because he seems like he could develop into a pure GC rider) and then have a really hard choice between the other two (if they only pick two out of 3).

Reckon they will sign one rider for 2018 - I suspect it will be Hamilton - Storer is of interest as he is a decent TTer for a potential GC team - Hindley is probably the best pure climber but probably needs more consistency - Stannard is the wild card as he turns 19 in September but already won a stage in a 2.2 race against seasoned pros. Have to think he is still 2 years from WT.

A poster like 42 or Stryder should have more information.

As said above, the young guys coming through have varying skill sets. I think Orica's choice depends on who they can retain. If Plaza doesn't stay around then I suspect that they will look at another rider for rolling hills and medium mountains. If Hayman doesn't ride another year then they will also want some classics support for Keukeleire and Durbridge. Then there's Tuft.

The GC team is starting to look very solid, with Haig, Howson, Verona, Kreuziger and an improving Power so I don't know if they need to spend up on young climbers ATM. The squad has gotten to the point where they don't have to restrict their attention to Australian talent anymore. Other teams will also be looking at these guys and Orica might not even get a look in.

Re GC; Howson is already showing that at worst he is a very valuable & versatile climbing domestique. Whilst its debateable that he will ever be a GT contender in his own right; top 10 finishes at WT stage races aren't out of the question. Far too early to get a realistic gauge on Haig's long term potential but on signs to date, he should at worst be of Howson status. We won't know until later in the year just what value Kreuziger & Verona are actually delivering.

Not sure I'd use the word "improving" with regards to Power given we haven't seen ANY meaningful performances. Its just too early given he lost his neo-pro year and is still really short of condition. He'll almost certainly get another 2 years; late next year we may have a better read on his value. Plaza - would be surprised if he stays.

I think ORS WILL have their eyes on a couple of these touted u23s but I do agree that its likely there will be market interest and its no done deal where they may end up.

As for the end of year/end of contract situation for ORS; this is my current read:

Tuft - almost certain retirement

I wouldn't be so sure about Tuft. From a very recent Velonews article:

“I have to say, I feel pretty good. Age doesn’t feel like much of a factor,” Tuft said. “It is more a holistic approach to life. Instead of trying to pin yourself for one massive peak in your career, but if you look after yourself in all aspects of life, it pays off, and you can have a good, balanced career. I always thought consistency, [rather] than thrashing yourself for a month or two, and being totally hammered for three.”

White confirmed to VeloNews that it’s likely that Tuft will be in an Orica-Scott jersey for 2018, and perhaps beyond.

“I think we’ll get another year out of him, for sure,” White said. “The key thing is that he started so late. Mentally, he is not burned-out. He appreciates where he is now in his life, and he enjoys his cycling. Everyone has a life span in professional sport, and when you start later, you can go longer.”

Tuft, too, said he sees no reason to stop now. He’s having too much fun.

 

[dirkprovin]

Sveino has been a magnificent servant to the team and he should be honoured for that as White very justifiably does; it's just how effectively can he still do his job especially with a team that is now one of the big league/requiring riders be "on point" every day rather than the old days where they had relative "days off".

He's been a Trojan so far through this Giro but lets just see how he finishes it. He was pretty damned beat down at the end of last year's Giro and he was, by his standards, not a particularly strong contributor at the Vuelta.

I'd love to be proven wrong but last year's GTs gave me sufficient grounds to think that he's starting to battle to keep backing up for the hard slog and professional sport at this level has little room for sentimentality. Would certainly have no issue, however, with him having an ongoing role within the team should he be interested.

 

[movingtarget]

Much better job done by Orica today for Ewan. Matt White should be happy about that.

 

[yaco]

I'd be surprised if Tuft goes on, but its difficult to obtain high quality domestiques like Tuft from the peleton - Seems certain that Hayman will stay for 2018, so again you may only have 2 or 3 changes in the squad - Docker has get a ride at the Vuelta or he is on shaky ground - In saying that Docker will get picked up by another team because he can ride classics and be part of a sprint train - What I've found most interesting in this Giro is the amount of time Plaza has been spending at the front of the peleton.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Much better job done by Orica today for Ewan. Matt White should be happy about that.

Next question is ..... for how much longer do you keep Ewan in the race ? Yes, there is another prime opportunity on St 13 but will he be in any condition to be able to take the opportunity ? The race has been pretty much soft pedalled so far but sooner or later some team is going to change that in a major fashion

I'd be surprised if Tuft goes on, but its difficult to obtain high quality domestiques like Tuft from the peleton - Seems certain that Hayman will stay for 2018, so again you may only have 2 or 3 changes in the squad - Docker has get a ride at the Vuelta or he is on shaky ground - In saying that Docker will get picked up by another team because he can ride classics and be part of a sprint train - What I've found most interesting in this Giro is the amount of time Plaza has been spending at the front of the peleton.

Fully agree that the likes of Sveino are far from common. Re Hayman; whilst another P-R looks on the cards, will he hand in his notice then or serve out the remainder of the year ? Curious to observe just who they've been putting on the front and it not being just the usual suspects. In all honesty, they've probably been guilty of being too noble for their own good and need not have done quite so much and are running the risk of most of the team running on empty well before St21.

 

[yaco]

Orica have been saving Hepburn and Verona for week 2 and 3 - I want Ewan to finish the race like Gaviria - Getting kilometres into the legs of young riders is vital - Wondering if there is a virus going through the Orica team - Edmondson spent time yesterday at the medical car, Ewan was holding the left side of his tummy later in the stage, while Juul-Jensen was holding the right hand side of his tummy - Certain stage 12 and 13 will end in a bunch sprint, while stage 8 is more problematic.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Orica have been saving Hepburn and Verona for week 2 and 3 - I want Ewan to finish the race like Gaviria - Getting kilometres into the legs of young riders is vital - Wondering if there is a virus going through the Orica team - Edmondson spent time yesterday at the medical car, Ewan was holding the left side of his tummy later in the stage, while Juul-Jensen was holding the right hand side of his tummy - Certain stage 12 and 13 will end in a bunch sprint, while stage 8 is more problematic.

Stage 13 - definite bunch sprint but if a team wants to hit the first half of Stage 12 hard then those sprinters will be having to dig deep either to keep in touch or to reconnect.

Your desire for Ewan to finish the Giro is frightfully noble but to my mind; an exercise that they potentially cannot afford to indulge. As to whether he can make the time cuts in itself is open to debate but more importantly, he will essentially be "excess baggage" for the team with next to no positive utility to Yates should he be contending for a high position. A few years ago, they could afford such exercises ... just not sure they can do that now.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Orica have been saving Hepburn and Verona for week 2 and 3 - I want Ewan to finish the race like Gaviria - Getting kilometres into the legs of young riders is vital - Wondering if there is a virus going through the Orica team - Edmondson spent time yesterday at the medical car, Ewan was holding the left side of his tummy later in the stage, while Juul-Jensen was holding the right hand side of his tummy - Certain stage 12 and 13 will end in a bunch sprint, while stage 8 is more problematic.

Stage 13 - definite bunch sprint but if a team wants to hit the first half of Stage 12 hard then those sprinters will be having to dig deep either to keep in touch or to reconnect.

Your desire for Ewan to finish the Giro is frightfully noble but to my mind; an exercise that they potentially cannot afford to indulge. As to whether he can make the time cuts in itself is open to debate but more importantly, he will essentially be "excess baggage" for the team with next to no positive utility to Yates should he be contending for a high position. A few years ago, they could afford such exercises ... just not sure they can do that now.

What kind of cost would it be to the team if Ewan finishes? He doesn't need anyone from the team to hang back with him in the grupetto.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Orica have been saving Hepburn and Verona for week 2 and 3 - I want Ewan to finish the race like Gaviria - Getting kilometres into the legs of young riders is vital - Wondering if there is a virus going through the Orica team - Edmondson spent time yesterday at the medical car, Ewan was holding the left side of his tummy later in the stage, while Juul-Jensen was holding the right hand side of his tummy - Certain stage 12 and 13 will end in a bunch sprint, while stage 8 is more problematic.

Stage 13 - definite bunch sprint but if a team wants to hit the first half of Stage 12 hard then those sprinters will be having to dig deep either to keep in touch or to reconnect.

Your desire for Ewan to finish the Giro is frightfully noble but to my mind; an exercise that they potentially cannot afford to indulge. As to whether he can make the time cuts in itself is open to debate but more importantly, he will essentially be "excess baggage" for the team with next to no positive utility to Yates should he be contending for a high position. A few years ago, they could afford such exercises ... just not sure they can do that now.

What kind of cost would it be to the team if Ewan finishes? He doesn't need anyone from the team to hang back with him in the grupetto.

Simple question ... what if he can't even hold onto the grupetto especially if he's distanced early on one of the tough stages ? Is he worth keeping in the race ?

As for cost; another mouth to feed, more work for your soigneurs ..... not an issue in a dollars and cents sense but when he's delivering nothing to the team and using up resources, why expend them ?

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Orica have been saving Hepburn and Verona for week 2 and 3 - I want Ewan to finish the race like Gaviria - Getting kilometres into the legs of young riders is vital - Wondering if there is a virus going through the Orica team - Edmondson spent time yesterday at the medical car, Ewan was holding the left side of his tummy later in the stage, while Juul-Jensen was holding the right hand side of his tummy - Certain stage 12 and 13 will end in a bunch sprint, while stage 8 is more problematic.

Stage 13 - definite bunch sprint but if a team wants to hit the first half of Stage 12 hard then those sprinters will be having to dig deep either to keep in touch or to reconnect.

Your desire for Ewan to finish the Giro is frightfully noble but to my mind; an exercise that they potentially cannot afford to indulge. As to whether he can make the time cuts in itself is open to debate but more importantly, he will essentially be "excess baggage" for the team with next to no positive utility to Yates should he be contending for a high position. A few years ago, they could afford such exercises ... just not sure they can do that now.

What kind of cost would it be to the team if Ewan finishes? He doesn't need anyone from the team to hang back with him in the grupetto.

Simple question ... what if he can't even hold onto the grupetto especially if he's distanced early on one of the tough stages ? Is he worth keeping in the race ?

As for cost; another mouth to feed, more work for your soigneurs ..... not an issue in a dollars and cents sense but when he's delivering nothing to the team and using up resources, why expend them ?

So just dump him cause he's worthless now? Dunno...seems slightly harsh. I'm sure they can afford the food. So the soigneurs have to do their job...who cares. I would agree with you if they had to expend the energy of the riders for the sake of Ewan. If he wants to battle through and he isn't using up the team riders, I don't see that as a problem.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Orica have been saving Hepburn and Verona for week 2 and 3 - I want Ewan to finish the race like Gaviria - Getting kilometres into the legs of young riders is vital - Wondering if there is a virus going through the Orica team - Edmondson spent time yesterday at the medical car, Ewan was holding the left side of his tummy later in the stage, while Juul-Jensen was holding the right hand side of his tummy - Certain stage 12 and 13 will end in a bunch sprint, while stage 8 is more problematic.

Stage 13 - definite bunch sprint but if a team wants to hit the first half of Stage 12 hard then those sprinters will be having to dig deep either to keep in touch or to reconnect.

Your desire for Ewan to finish the Giro is frightfully noble but to my mind; an exercise that they potentially cannot afford to indulge. As to whether he can make the time cuts in itself is open to debate but more importantly, he will essentially be "excess baggage" for the team with next to no positive utility to Yates should he be contending for a high position. A few years ago, they could afford such exercises ... just not sure they can do that now.

What kind of cost would it be to the team if Ewan finishes? He doesn't need anyone from the team to hang back with him in the grupetto.

Simple question ... what if he can't even hold onto the grupetto especially if he's distanced early on one of the tough stages ? Is he worth keeping in the race ?

As for cost; another mouth to feed, more work for your soigneurs ..... not an issue in a dollars and cents sense but when he's delivering nothing to the team and using up resources, why expend them ?

So just dump him cause he's worthless now? Dunno...seems slightly harsh. I'm sure they can afford the food. So the soigneurs have to do their job...who cares. I would agree with you if they had to expend the energy of the riders for the sake of Ewan. If he wants to battle through and he isn't using up the team riders, I don't see that as a problem.

Once the sprint stages are over, he is in essence 'worthless' to the team and a drain on resources. This is a GT, not a social ride or an U23 race; this is hard nosed professional sport. In the past, ORS were not competing for GC and had the luxury of being able to have riders "ride for experience" or even carry excess baggage (although the experience of towing the caravan that was M.Harley Goss around the 2013 TDF may have hardened them up). Those days are over.

For that reason, I'm also critical of them selecting Edmondson for this race. He's having a great first real pro season but he has zero hopes of making the finish; he hasn't the experience/race savvy to be an efficient lead-out. Again, in the old days, such a selection could be justified and probably lauded but ORS is no longer that team. Looking at the selection for this team plus some of the tactics on the road, one could be forgiven for thinking that Mr White has had a temporary case of amnesia but maybe this GT will prove to be the hard cold reality check that ORS needs to have .... just sad that Yates may be the casualty in the process.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Once the sprint stages are over, he is in essence 'worthless' to the team and a drain on resources. This is a GT, not a social ride or an U23 race; this is hard nosed professional sport. In the past, ORS were not competing for GC and had the luxury of being able to have riders "ride for experience" or even carry excess baggage (although the experience of towing the caravan that was M.Harley Goss around the 2013 TDF may have hardened them up). Those days are over.

For that reason, I'm also critical of them selecting Edmondson for this race. He's having a great first real pro season but he has zero hopes of making the finish; he hasn't the experience/race savvy to be an efficient lead-out. Again, in the old days, such a selection could be justified and probably lauded but ORS is no longer that team. Looking at the selection for this team plus some of the tactics on the road, one could be forgiven for thinking that Mr White has had a temporary case of amnesia but maybe this GT will prove to be the hard cold reality check that ORS needs to have .... just sad that Yates may be the casualty in the process.

Everyone has their viewpoint. That's fair enough.

White seems like a decent manager, and I'm sure he thought through this Giro team. As far as Ewan being useless, he'll probably be close to that, but perhaps he could slave away on the early parts of some of the stages. He could act as a domestique. I understand this is a GT and not a social ride, but they do have to invest in their riders future. If the team thinks Ewan will mature by riding the whole thing, then so be it.

I don't know to much about Edmondson - his strengths and weaknesses, but I guess at some point he has to ride a GT, right? Better the Giro than the hugely commercialized and demanding Tour.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Much better job done by Orica today for Ewan. Matt White should be happy about that.

Next question is ..... for how much longer do you keep Ewan in the race ? Yes, there is another prime opportunity on St 13 but will he be in any condition to be able to take the opportunity ? The race has been pretty much soft pedalled so far but sooner or later some team is going to change that in a major fashion

I'd be surprised if Tuft goes on, but its difficult to obtain high quality domestiques like Tuft from the peleton - Seems certain that Hayman will stay for 2018, so again you may only have 2 or 3 changes in the squad - Docker has get a ride at the Vuelta or he is on shaky ground - In saying that Docker will get picked up by another team because he can ride classics and be part of a sprint train - What I've found most interesting in this Giro is the amount of time Plaza has been spending at the front of the peleton.

Fully agree that the likes of Sveino are far from common. Re Hayman; whilst another P-R looks on the cards, will he hand in his notice then or serve out the remainder of the year ? Curious to observe just who they've been putting on the front and it not being just the usual suspects. In all honesty, they've probably been guilty of being too noble for their own good and need not have done quite so much and are running the risk of most of the team running on empty well before St21.

I don't think Ewan will be around for the final week. McEwan used to do that all the time in the Giro and some people didn't like it but it kept him fresher for the Tour. There is no point keeping Ewan in the race when his best opportunities are gone already for stage wins and it will be easier for the team to switch focus onto the GC riders completely. Other more experienced sprinters will do the same and leave the race early. The final flat stages will come too late for Ewan as he will be struggling at that point. Only the points jersey riders will finish the race if they think that have a real shot at winning it and they are not riding the Tour.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Much better job done by Orica today for Ewan. Matt White should be happy about that.

Next question is ..... for how much longer do you keep Ewan in the race ? Yes, there is another prime opportunity on St 13 but will he be in any condition to be able to take the opportunity ? The race has been pretty much soft pedalled so far but sooner or later some team is going to change that in a major fashion

I'd be surprised if Tuft goes on, but its difficult to obtain high quality domestiques like Tuft from the peleton - Seems certain that Hayman will stay for 2018, so again you may only have 2 or 3 changes in the squad - Docker has get a ride at the Vuelta or he is on shaky ground - In saying that Docker will get picked up by another team because he can ride classics and be part of a sprint train - What I've found most interesting in this Giro is the amount of time Plaza has been spending at the front of the peleton.

Fully agree that the likes of Sveino are far from common. Re Hayman; whilst another P-R looks on the cards, will he hand in his notice then or serve out the remainder of the year ? Curious to observe just who they've been putting on the front and it not being just the usual suspects. In all honesty, they've probably been guilty of being too noble for their own good and need not have done quite so much and are running the risk of most of the team running on empty well before St21.

I think that they were over eager to get Ewan into the Maglia Rosa and pick up a stage win. Now they have one, I can see them letting other teams do most of the work.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Much better job done by Orica today for Ewan. Matt White should be happy about that.

Next question is ..... for how much longer do you keep Ewan in the race ? Yes, there is another prime opportunity on St 13 but will he be in any condition to be able to take the opportunity ? The race has been pretty much soft pedalled so far but sooner or later some team is going to change that in a major fashion

I'd be surprised if Tuft goes on, but its difficult to obtain high quality domestiques like Tuft from the peleton - Seems certain that Hayman will stay for 2018, so again you may only have 2 or 3 changes in the squad - Docker has get a ride at the Vuelta or he is on shaky ground - In saying that Docker will get picked up by another team because he can ride classics and be part of a sprint train - What I've found most interesting in this Giro is the amount of time Plaza has been spending at the front of the peleton.

Fully agree that the likes of Sveino are far from common. Re Hayman; whilst another P-R looks on the cards, will he hand in his notice then or serve out the remainder of the year ? Curious to observe just who they've been putting on the front and it not being just the usual suspects. In all honesty, they've probably been guilty of being too noble for their own good and need not have done quite so much and are running the risk of most of the team running on empty well before St21.

I don't think Ewan will be around for the final week. McEwan used to do that all the time in the Giro and some people didn't like it but it kept him fresher for the Tour. There is no point keeping Ewan in the race when his best opportunities are gone already for stage wins and it will be easier for the team to switch focus onto the GC riders completely. Other more experienced sprinters will do the same and leave the race early. The final flat stages will come too late for Ewan as he will be struggling at that point. Only the points jersey riders will finish the race if they think that have a real shot at winning it and they are not riding the Tour.

What final flat stages? 12 and 13 are pretty much it.