[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

[yaco]

So Orica have brought in Meyer, Trentin and Nieve - My understanding is they will sign one of the promising young Australians - So that will be 4 riders in - Riders off contract in 2017

Albasini - Think he will do another year
Bewley - Renewed for 2018
Cort - Moved to Astana
Docker - On shaky ground
Edmondson - A priority signing.
Haig - A priority signing
Gerrans - Likely to move
Hayman - Renewed to 2018
Hepburn - Renewed to 2019
Keukeliere - Rumoured to Lotto Soudal
Plaza - Unknown but has injury concerns
Tuft - Renewed for 2018
Juul-Jensen - Renewed to 2019
Mezgec - A priority signing
Power - Still coming to grips with WT racing.

So we have four riders joining the team - 2 definite outs and Gerrans likely - Another two are on shaky ground and another three to resign - Believe Orica had a light roster this year so you could very well have an extra two riders in the squad.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

There's also the HK chap's spot?

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

There's also the HK chap's spot?

Can see no cycling reasons why Lok should remain on Orica's list

So Orica have brought in Meyer, Trentin and Nieve - My understanding is they will sign one of the promising young Australians - So that will be 4 riders in - Riders off contract in 2017

Albasini - Think he will do another year
Bewley - Renewed for 2018
Cort - Moved to Astana
Docker - On shaky ground
Edmondson - A priority signing.
Haig - A priority signing
Gerrans - Likely to move
Hayman - Renewed to 2018
Hepburn - Renewed to 2019
Keukeliere - Rumoured to Lotto Soudal
Plaza - Unknown but has injury concerns
Tuft - Renewed for 2018
Juul-Jensen - Renewed to 2019
Mezgec - A priority signing
Power - Still coming to grips with WT racing.

So we have four riders joining the team - 2 definite outs and Gerrans likely - Another two are on shaky ground and another three to resign - Believe Orica had a light roster this year so you could very well have an extra two riders in the squad.

Largely agree with you. One does hope that at least 2 of those resigned for one year WILL actually pull the plug at that point otherwise they have a lot of riders coming off contract at that point including 2 of their biggest budget items (Yates x 2) plus potentially others who may be up for contract upgrades (Durbridge)

Shame to see Keukeleire leave but it clearly must've been a really good offer to lure him away. Re Cort, I really do hope that it was a matter of $$$$ rather than Orica hierarchy banking on Ewan long term ahead of Cort ... if that was the case then those responsible should be fired with maximum velocity into the largest black hole in the know universe !!

Agree that the peak priority signings are Haig and Edmondson ... especially Haig who I actually do think may be on the radar screen of at least one mega team. Haig would be best served staying where he is ..... but the $$$$ may be very attractive. If he stays then he should clearly be given the chance to ride for himself at some one weekers and even some one day races. With Cort gone, Edmondson clearly should be the classics/quick guy that Orica seriously invests in.

Power .... has shown very little but having lost 90% of 2016, has to be acknowledged to be essentially a neo-pro. Should be given at least one more year but probably needs to show something.

Docker's lack of top line racing for most of this year doesn't read well for his future prospects. Agree that he is a likely out.

Albasini continues to bring in results every year at WT level and has been one of the best value signings Orica has ever made. If he's "up" for continuing then he's more than earned the right to ride out his career with the team. Would probably look on a year by year deal or a 2 year with option for the final year.

Plaza, age wise, is also in the retirement window. His Giro ride was excellent and would earn him another year but what are his thoughts on continuing ? What is the scope of these injury issues ?

Mezgec - a lower priority than Haig & Edmondson but I agree that he is a rider that they would do well to keep and I'd make it another 2 year deal regardless of how the Ewan situation pans out next year. This guy can also work with Edmondson; is useful over a wide variety of terrain ...... and is capable of bringing in results in his own right and should arguably be given some wider scope in this respect. Also seems to have gelled well with his team mates

 

[yaco]

The cycling news article posted today seems to indicate Haig is well advanced in contract negotiations with Orica.

 

[StryderHells]

I don't see Docker as a likely out unless they are bringing in other riders who can fill a classics support roll, they need riders to fill domestique rolls in races outside of the GT's and big 1 week races which Docker does quite nicely.

 

[yaco]

Re:

I don't see Docker as a likely out unless they are bringing in other riders who can fill a classics support roll, they need riders to fill domestique rolls in races outside of the GT's and big 1 week races which Docker does quite nicely.

Docker will be lucky to have a place because he doesn't ride GT's - He hasn't ridden a GT since the 2015 Vuelta in which he withdrew after 8 or 9 stages - The load must be spread across the team.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

The cycling news article posted today seems to indicate Haig is well advanced in contract negotiations with Orica.

Hhmm, I do think that Orica will need to find some extra $$$ to keep Haig as I do strongly suspect that a couple of major teams are/will be interested in him. Whilst it will most likely be more beneficial for his career, at this point, to stay where he is, there are most certainly some openings for climbing talent at a couple of these teams.

I don't see Docker as a likely out unless they are bringing in other riders who can fill a classics support roll, they need riders to fill domestique rolls in races outside of the GT's and big 1 week races which Docker does quite nicely.

Docker will be lucky to have a place because he doesn't ride GT's - He hasn't ridden a GT since the 2015 Vuelta in which he withdrew after 8 or 9 stages - The load must be spread across the team.

I see both sides of this question. Docker could certainly still be of some legitimate value, especially in the cobbled races, but his lack of top drawer racing this season since then does beg the question regarding his status. Yaco's point does have some cogency; whilst it was understandable that he missed last season's GTs due to recovery; his non-selection this season and relative lack of top-level racing does beg the question ... why ? Maybe he isn't definitely "out the door" but he has to be seen as uncertain

 

[Tigerion]

Re: Re:

Can see no cycling reasons why Lok should remain on Orica's list

The only reason I can see would be for sponsorship reasons. He didn't seem to get a chance at all this year, is that a performance issue or injury?
I'm personally not sold on the resigning of Meyer. I like him as a rider but with is primary focus being track I think his place could have been better filled.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Can see no cycling reasons why Lok should remain on Orica's list

The only reason I can see would be for sponsorship reasons. He didn't seem to get a chance at all this year, is that a performance issue or injury?
I'm personally not sold on the resigning of Meyer. I like him as a rider but with is primary focus being track I think his place could have been better filled.

Your read re Lok lines up with mine. I thought his place on the list MAY have been related to a new sponsor being Chinese based but we've certainly seen no announcements. His only race outings that I have seen have been Asian championships, Chinese Nationals and Tour of Korea; none of which have been as part of an Orica team.

Meyer ... I can see where you are coming from and see some merit in what you are saying. I think that he could be distinctly more than useful but his head really does need to be "in the game". One of his greatest weaknesses was his inability or unwillingness to ride decent position when he was not either "up the road" or specifically riding on the front of the peleton. In a now GC oriented team, everyone will have a role to play and he will need to be switched on.

As to his use to the team; he is a very dangerous break-away option and whilst not a mountain-goat, he can climb. His big engine is also highly useful come TTT and flatland grunt where needed. The likes of Tuft and Hayman will be departing within a year and these roles will still need to be filled ... and if these roles can be filled by riders with wider skill-sets then all the better (as has been seen with the diversification of Bewley and Hepburn). I think the track issue CAN be managed as he will be more of a role player for the team rather than a main man or key development project like Edmondson.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

I don't see Docker as a likely out unless they are bringing in other riders who can fill a classics support roll, they need riders to fill domestique rolls in races outside of the GT's and big 1 week races which Docker does quite nicely.

Docker will be lucky to have a place because he doesn't ride GT's - He hasn't ridden a GT since the 2015 Vuelta in which he withdrew after 8 or 9 stages - The load must be spread across the team.

A season is more than just the GT's, how is Docker not doing his bit? Maybe he is on his way out the door, maybe he just hasn't fit into the GT plans for this season, maybe he isn't built for GT's. He has more race days this season than Durbridge, Kluge and Chaves (I get that Durbridge crashed out of TDF and Chaves has had injury issues), equal with Ewan, 1 behind Cort, 2 behind Tuft and Haig so it's not like he isn't doing his bit. I think Docker has a place in the team but I could very well be wrong about that.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Kluge & Power the other riders not to do a GT (plus Lok)

 

[yaco]

Re:

Kluge & Power the other riders not to do a GT (plus Lok)

Kluge fell out of favor but is still contracted for 2018 and I guess he will ride a GT in 2018. Power is not in good enough condition to ride a GT - Lok has not ridden for Orica in 2017.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Kluge & Power the other riders not to do a GT (plus Lok)

Kluge fell out of favor but is still contracted for 2018 and I guess he will ride a GT in 2018. Power is not in good enough condition to ride a GT - Lok has not ridden for Orica in 2017.

Kluge does not seem to have "gelled" particularly well with this team ...but maybe I'm wrong. I will differ with you with regards to GTs; he or any other rider will be selected for a GT, not because it's his turn on the roster to do so but because he is deemed the best available option to perform a particular role(s) for that race. I'm not sure that he will as, given the reduction in team sizes down to 8; it will be even less practicable to bring along a sprinter plus any lead-out alongside the GC support staff. This is likely to mitigate against both Kluge and Ewan with the most likely options for such selections more likely to be Edmondson plus Mezgec (if re-signed).

Power was never likely to get a GT run given Orica's changed focus means no more "charity"/"free rides" for anyone at GTs. Nor is it any certainty that he'll get a run next year unless his performances warrant him being seriously considered.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Gerro didn't do a GT either

 

[yaco]

Re:

Gerro didn't do a GT either

Gerro is out the door, though some in the Australian media think he's a chance to stay - It's all public relations.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Kluge & Power the other riders not to do a GT (plus Lok)

Kluge fell out of favor but is still contracted for 2018 and I guess he will ride a GT in 2018. Power is not in good enough condition to ride a GT - Lok has not ridden for Orica in 2017.

Kluge does not seem to have "gelled" particularly well with this team ...but maybe I'm wrong. I will differ with you with regards to GTs; he or any other rider will be selected for a GT, not because it's his turn on the roster to do so but because he is deemed the best available option to perform a particular role(s) for that race. I'm not sure that he will as, given the reduction in team sizes down to 8; it will be even less practicable to bring along a sprinter plus any lead-out alongside the GC support staff. This is likely to mitigate against both Kluge and Ewan with the most likely options for such selections more likely to be Edmondson plus Mezgec (if re-signed).

Power was never likely to get a GT run given Orica's changed focus means no more "charity"/"free rides" for anyone at GTs. Nor is it any certainty that he'll get a run next year unless his performances warrant him being seriously considered.

Ewan is riding the 2018 Giro but will have reduced support - He will have one dedicated lead out rider whether that is Mezgec or Kluge or Edmondson - You will probably find that Orica will play a reduced role on the front of the peleton in flat stages, unless they have the pink jersey And big sprint trains seem to be fading out of the peleton.

Giro team will be something like this

Ewan
One of Mezgec,Kluge or Edmondson
Two of Bewley,Tuft or Hepburn
Chaves
One x Yates
Howson or Verona
One x C.Meyer/Juul-Jensen

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Kluge & Power the other riders not to do a GT (plus Lok)

Kluge fell out of favor but is still contracted for 2018 and I guess he will ride a GT in 2018. Power is not in good enough condition to ride a GT - Lok has not ridden for Orica in 2017.

Kluge does not seem to have "gelled" particularly well with this team ...but maybe I'm wrong. I will differ with you with regards to GTs; he or any other rider will be selected for a GT, not because it's his turn on the roster to do so but because he is deemed the best available option to perform a particular role(s) for that race. I'm not sure that he will as, given the reduction in team sizes down to 8; it will be even less practicable to bring along a sprinter plus any lead-out alongside the GC support staff. This is likely to mitigate against both Kluge and Ewan with the most likely options for such selections more likely to be Edmondson plus Mezgec (if re-signed).

Power was never likely to get a GT run given Orica's changed focus means no more "charity"/"free rides" for anyone at GTs. Nor is it any certainty that he'll get a run next year unless his performances warrant him being seriously considered.

Ewan is riding the 2018 Giro but will have reduced support - He will have one dedicated lead out rider whether that is Mezgec or Kluge or Edmondson - You will probably find that Orica will play a reduced role on the front of the peleton in flat stages, unless they have the pink jersey And big sprint trains seem to be fading out of the peleton.

Giro team will be something like this

Ewan
One of Mezgec,Kluge or Edmondson
Two of Bewley,Tuft or Hepburn
Chaves
One x Yates
Howson or Verona
One x C.Meyer/Juul-Jensen

With respect, I'd think its a bit presumptive to start talking GT line-ups before we know all the GT routes for next season .... and have an idea which GC man is best suited for which race. Whilst they may go double pronged again, its no sure thing esp with the reduced team sizes. It may be only one man per team that we are speaking of but that change is likely to have major impacts with regards to team selections and whether any form of "dual ambitions" can be sustained.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Kluge & Power the other riders not to do a GT (plus Lok)

Kluge fell out of favor but is still contracted for 2018 and I guess he will ride a GT in 2018. Power is not in good enough condition to ride a GT - Lok has not ridden for Orica in 2017.

Kluge does not seem to have "gelled" particularly well with this team ...but maybe I'm wrong. I will differ with you with regards to GTs; he or any other rider will be selected for a GT, not because it's his turn on the roster to do so but because he is deemed the best available option to perform a particular role(s) for that race. I'm not sure that he will as, given the reduction in team sizes down to 8; it will be even less practicable to bring along a sprinter plus any lead-out alongside the GC support staff. This is likely to mitigate against both Kluge and Ewan with the most likely options for such selections more likely to be Edmondson plus Mezgec (if re-signed).

Power was never likely to get a GT run given Orica's changed focus means no more "charity"/"free rides" for anyone at GTs. Nor is it any certainty that he'll get a run next year unless his performances warrant him being seriously considered.

Ewan is riding the 2018 Giro but will have reduced support - He will have one dedicated lead out rider whether that is Mezgec or Kluge or Edmondson - You will probably find that Orica will play a reduced role on the front of the peleton in flat stages, unless they have the pink jersey And big sprint trains seem to be fading out of the peleton.

Giro team will be something like this

Ewan
One of Mezgec,Kluge or Edmondson
Two of Bewley,Tuft or Hepburn
Chaves
One x Yates
Howson or Verona
One x C.Meyer/Juul-Jensen

With respect, I'd think its a bit presumptive to start talking GT line-ups before we know all the GT routes for next season .... and have an idea which GC man is best suited for which race. Whilst they may go double pronged again, its no sure thing esp with the reduced team sizes. It may be only one man per team that we are speaking of but that change is likely to have major impacts with regards to team selections and whether any form of "dual ambitions" can be sustained.

My post was in response to the part of your post referring to 8 rider teams for GT and how it could work, hence a suggested line up for the Giro - I was also responding to Ewans role in a GT - He will ride a GT in 2018 and it won't be the TDF, because of the alleged TTT, and usually the Vuelta has limited opportunities for sprinters.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Ewan is riding the 2018 Giro but will have reduced support - He will have one dedicated lead out rider whether that is Mezgec or Kluge or Edmondson - You will probably find that Orica will play a reduced role on the front of the peleton in flat stages, unless they have the pink jersey And big sprint trains seem to be fading out of the peleton.

Giro team will be something like this

Ewan
One of Mezgec,Kluge or Edmondson
Two of Bewley,Tuft or Hepburn
Chaves
One x Yates
Howson or Verona
One x C.Meyer/Juul-Jensen

With respect, I'd think its a bit presumptive to start talking GT line-ups before we know all the GT routes for next season .... and have an idea which GC man is best suited for which race. Whilst they may go double pronged again, its no sure thing esp with the reduced team sizes. It may be only one man per team that we are speaking of but that change is likely to have major impacts with regards to team selections and whether any form of "dual ambitions" can be sustained.

My post was in response to the part of your post referring to 8 rider teams for GT and how it could work, hence a suggested line up for the Giro - I was also responding to Ewans role in a GT - He will ride a GT in 2018 and it won't be the TDF, because of the alleged TTT, and usually the Vuelta has limited opportunities for sprinters.

No problems, it was just that you expressed it in "definitive terms" (is riding/will ride) rather than "may ride"/"is likely to ride".

In all honesty, I do not see that as the certainty that you do. This year's Giro did make it patently clear that for Ewan to have anything better than at best a one in eight "batting average" at GT sprints, he is going to need significantly more than one support rider and Orica is in no position to provide him with this ... nor should they. I'd prefer they look longer term and take Edmondson instead as even with his lack of experience, he will still offer more with regards to the teams prime objectives than Ewan

My alternate scenario, although an unpleasant one, is that Orica will look to "fatten him up for market" with as many "softish" early season wins and swag of WT points (before "parking him" come the serious part of the season) just waiting for some other team to take the bait. It sounds cold blooded but teams are certainly not averse to playing this game

 

[swuzzlebubble]

IMO, If they'd gone to the Giro with Kluge instead of Edmondson, Ewan would have done better

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

IMO, If they'd gone to the Giro with Kluge instead of Edmondson, Ewan would have done better

Plausible scenario but no sure fire conclusion. Even when partnered up with Kluge, lil Caleb was still managing to lose his wheel more often than not. You can get away with that crap early season when you're in better condition than the competition ... come serious races and you get your hindquarters royally spanked if you make that or any other muck-up. At the Giro, he made more of them "off his own bat" than those that could be put down to mistakes by his off-siders.

 

[yaco]

Ewan will ride a GT ( probably the Giro ) in 2018, but he will have limited support.

 

[yaco]

Rory Sutherland signs for UAE - Would have been a perfect signing for Orica to take over from Hayman/Tuft - Mezgec wins the Veendall Classic.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Rory Sutherland signs for UAE - Would have been a perfect signing for Orica to take over from Hayman/Tuft - Mezgec wins the Veendall Classic.

100% agree re Sutherland, such a signing would've meant they could've let Tuft go.

Good result for Mezgec; would be very disappointed if they let him go. The guy is a quality rider and, if retained, should probably be given some more opportunities for himself as well as working on the development of Edmondson.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

What age is Sutherland?