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[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

Page 133 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re:

yaco said:
Gerrans definitely fell out of favor at Orica - Will be interesting to see his race program for 2018 - Will say I doubt his capabilities as a road captain.
greenedge said:
I'll always think of Gerro as an OGE rider, so it's sad to see him leave in the final years of his career. However at BMC he will have a good role and i'm sure will be invaluable, so as long as he's happy congrats to him!

Maybe less a matter of "falling out of favour" but rather it all getting down to $$$$. Gerrans was the biggest $$$ deal at the time that they penned this 3 year deal that has just expired and at this time in 2014, it was completely merited.

However, there is no way that they would offer him anything more than moderate $$$ given his current value nor would they probably be willing to offer him more than a 1 year deal. Most probably this was what they put to him with the implication; "feel free to look around for a better deal". In all honesty, with this signing BMC seem to be confirming an impression of "spend a lot but other than GVA, what's been their return on investment ?"

For their first 3 years, he WAS their "main man" and he should be respected for that. However, injuries/crashes have marred a couple of seasons and whereas the likes of Albasini (a similar age) have been able to sustain a high level of performance/results; he has fallen away and his utility in a support role is less.
 
Re:

yaco said:
At this stage in

Trentin
Nieve
Meyer
Bauer
L.Hamilton

Out

Keukeliere
Plaza
Cort
Gerrans

Still to be re-signed Edmondson, Docker, Power, Mezgec and Albasini. I suspect one or two of this won't be at Orica in 2018.

Alba already confirmed he has a contract for Orica 2018.
 
Re: Re:

liamito said:
yaco said:
At this stage in

Trentin
Nieve
Meyer
Bauer
L.Hamilton

Out

Keukeliere
Plaza
Cort
Gerrans

Still to be re-signed Edmondson, Docker, Power, Mezgec and Albasini. I suspect one or two of this won't be at Orica in 2018.

Alba already confirmed he has a contract for Orica 2018.

I was given this info a while ago but was waiting for official confirmation. I understand Mezgec and Power are staying but no news on Edmondson and Docker.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
liamito said:
yaco said:
At this stage in

Trentin
Nieve
Meyer
Bauer
L.Hamilton

Out

Keukeliere
Plaza
Cort
Gerrans

Still to be re-signed Edmondson, Docker, Power, Mezgec and Albasini. I suspect one or two of this won't be at Orica in 2018.

Alba already confirmed he has a contract for Orica 2018.

I was given this info a while ago but was waiting for official confirmation. I understand Mezgec and Power are staying but no news on Edmondson and Docker.

Albasini - expected, he's proven himself still more than worthy of a place in the line-up. Will be interesting to find out whether its just a straight one-year deal or whether there is an option for an additional year. Will almost certainly ride out his career with the team .... and has earned that right & is still capable to doing a job (Gerrans regrettably was not)

Mezgec - would hope that this is confirmed as he is of greater value than just a lead-out to Ewan who I realistically see as moving on after next year. The guy is capable over quite a range of terrain & could arguably be allowed to ride for his own results more often

Power - this has essentially been his neo-pro year given he lost 90% of 2016. A few decent one day performances (albeit at 2nd tier races) but he will realistically be needing to step it up considerably over the next 12 months as positions at one weekers cannot be just handed out as "charity" when you have a serious GC focus & with the reduced team sizes

Edmondson - another essentially in his neo-pro year (due to Rio track commitments) but a distinctly more impressive one especially in the cobbled races. Would have to think that he SHOULD be resigning priority given he may be a classics fast guy more compatible with a GC focused GT/stage team than Ewan. However, has he also caught the eye of another team ??

Docker - rode quite well early season and in some of the cobbles races but has basically disappeared from the line-up for most significant races ever since. Doesn't exactly sound a note of confidence re his future
 
Re:

yaco said:
Gerrans definitely fell out of favor at Orica - Will be interesting to see his race program for 2018 - Will say I doubt his capabilities as a road captain.

Roche will be road captain for the major races like the Tour, Dauphine etc. I think it's an unusual signing. I think he's mainly there for GVA and BMC just lost a few good domestiques. I thought BMC may have opted for more climbing support for Porte or even a quality sprinter. Something they have not had for a long time. I don't even know if Gerrans can even offer GVA much support at this stage of his career based on the last two seasons. I thought he was about to retire.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
yaco said:
Gerrans definitely fell out of favor at Orica - Will be interesting to see his race program for 2018 - Will say I doubt his capabilities as a road captain.

Roche will be road captain for the major races like the Tour, Dauphine etc. I think it's an unusual signing. I think he's mainly there for GVA and BMC just lost a few good domestiques. I thought BMC may have opted for more climbing support for Porte or even a quality sprinter. Something they have not had for a long time. I don't even know if Gerrans can even offer GVA much support at this stage of his career based on the last two seasons. I thought he was about to retire.

Completely agree, sometimes I wonder when it comes to BMC; they have probably the 2nd deepest pockets in the business but post Evans; such poor return on investment as regards the biggest races other than GVA's performances of this year. I'm just struggling to see the hard rationale behind signing Gerrans as, whilst his experience does have some value; he has to be capable of "being present when it counts' in order for it to be of true value .... and Gerrans has struggled on that front in recent times. Still, fair play to him for being able to snag a deal with a WT team given his situation.
 
Re:

jaylew said:
I don't get this at all. What on earth does Gerrans provide them? The only thing I can see is maybe help for Teuns or maybe even GVA? Well, I guess this kind of signing isn't really abnormal for them

I could understand if Gerrans went to one of the two WT French teams or a Dimension Data or even Fortuna Oscara who have limited support Barguil.
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
liamito said:
yaco said:
At this stage in

Trentin
Nieve
Meyer
Bauer
L.Hamilton

Out

Keukeliere
Plaza
Cort
Gerrans

Still to be re-signed Edmondson, Docker, Power, Mezgec and Albasini. I suspect one or two of this won't be at Orica in 2018.

Alba already confirmed he has a contract for Orica 2018.

I was given this info a while ago but was waiting for official confirmation. I understand Mezgec and Power are staying but no news on Edmondson and Docker.

Albasini - expected, he's proven himself still more than worthy of a place in the line-up. Will be interesting to find out whether its just a straight one-year deal or whether there is an option for an additional year. Will almost certainly ride out his career with the team .... and has earned that right & is still capable to doing a job (Gerrans regrettably was not)

Mezgec - would hope that this is confirmed as he is of greater value than just a lead-out to Ewan who I realistically see as moving on after next year. The guy is capable over quite a range of terrain & could arguably be allowed to ride for his own results more often

Power - this has essentially been his neo-pro year given he lost 90% of 2016. A few decent one day performances (albeit at 2nd tier races) but he will realistically be needing to step it up considerably over the next 12 months as positions at one weekers cannot be just handed out as "charity" when you have a serious GC focus & with the reduced team sizes

Edmondson - another essentially in his neo-pro year (due to Rio track commitments) but a distinctly more impressive one especially in the cobbled races. Would have to think that he SHOULD be resigning priority given he may be a classics fast guy more compatible with a GC focused GT/stage team than Ewan. However, has he also caught the eye of another team ??

Docker - rode quite well early season and in some of the cobbles races but has basically disappeared from the line-up for most significant races ever since. Doesn't exactly sound a note of confidence re his future
Docker had a surprising ride at Worlds, did well positioning Matthews until the last lap. He adds value in one day races as well Eneco, Belgium, Poland etc. He just isn't a GT rider
 
Re: Re:

42x16ss said:
Docker - rode quite well early season and in some of the cobbles races but has basically disappeared from the line-up for most significant races ever since. Doesn't exactly sound a note of confidence re his future
Docker had a surprising ride at Worlds, did well positioning Matthews until the last lap. He adds value in one day races as well Eneco, Belgium, Poland etc. He just isn't a GT rider[/quote]

Very valid points and I certainly don't "take it as gospel" that he's necessarily out the door. However, with the reality of reduced team rosters; it's not a point in his favour.
 
May I say: There's a good chance Haas would have been there in the finale. It was a rugged sprint, but he would have been better placed to lead Matthews out than Haussler who finished 5.49 down. With a lead out, who knows? Definitely gets closer to the Kristoff and Sagan doesn't he?

I really like Haussler, but that was a really stupid selection.
 
Re:

The Hegelian said:
May I say: There's a good chance Haas would have been there in the finale. It was a rugged sprint, but he would have been better placed to lead Matthews out than Haussler who finished 5.49 down. With a lead out, who knows? Definitely gets closer to the Kristoff and Sagan doesn't he?

I really like Haussler, but that was a really stupid selection.
\

Maybe, maybe not. Firstly none of the other sprinters had lead-out men present ... and the pedigree of their support in some cases is several classes above that of N.Haas so lets not be so assured that he would actually have been present. You state it as a good chance; but whilst I fully agree that he would've been more likely than Haussler I see that scenario as being more of a "maybe".

Second, I'm struggling to find any real history of N.Haas as a lead-out man; rather his history is far more that of an opportunist who looks out for himself. Has he ever rode alongside Matthews in the same team let alone know "how he operates" ? Had there been a plan of having a B option then most certainly the case for selecting him raises immensely but I remain somewhat ambivalent as to his utility under the stated race strategy.
 
Re:

The Hegelian said:
May I say: There's a good chance Haas would have been there in the finale. It was a rugged sprint, but he would have been better placed to lead Matthews out than Haussler who finished 5.49 down. With a lead out, who knows? Definitely gets closer to the Kristoff and Sagan doesn't he?

I really like Haussler, but that was a really stupid selection.

Well if Porte was fit surely he would have been there instead of Haussler.
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
The Hegelian said:
May I say: There's a good chance Haas would have been there in the finale. It was a rugged sprint, but he would have been better placed to lead Matthews out than Haussler who finished 5.49 down. With a lead out, who knows? Definitely gets closer to the Kristoff and Sagan doesn't he?

I really like Haussler, but that was a really stupid selection.
\

Maybe, maybe not. Firstly none of the other sprinters had lead-out men present ... and the pedigree of their support in some cases is several classes above that of N.Haas so lets not be so assured that he would actually have been present. You state it as a good chance; but whilst I fully agree that he would've been more likely than Haussler I see that scenario as being more of a "maybe".

Second, I'm struggling to find any real history of N.Haas as a lead-out man; rather his history is far more that of an opportunist who looks out for himself. Has he ever rode alongside Matthews in the same team let alone know "how he operates" ? Had there been a plan of having a B option then most certainly the case for selecting him raises immensely but I remain somewhat ambivalent as to his utility under the stated race strategy.

I grant you that there was a lot of quality a couple of minutes behind, as is always the case in WCRR's. Haas may well have been dropped from the front group. But he and Durbridge are the only other two Australians this year to have shown the quality to be there in the finale of hard raced classics. And Durbridge is of course coming back from injury. Which leaves Haas, who - apparently - was in top form.

Surely, you select to have some 'maybe' support in the finale ahead 'no chance whatsever'. I mean Haussler has barely raced at all. What shape that 'maybe' support takes is unpredictable - maybe he gives one good chase 3k's to go. Maybe it's a lead out. Maybe it's marking someone. Surely it's better to have a teammate than not....
 
Re: Re:

The Hegelian said:
dirkprovin said:
The Hegelian said:
May I say: There's a good chance Haas would have been there in the finale. It was a rugged sprint, but he would have been better placed to lead Matthews out than Haussler who finished 5.49 down. With a lead out, who knows? Definitely gets closer to the Kristoff and Sagan doesn't he?

I really like Haussler, but that was a really stupid selection.
\

Maybe, maybe not. Firstly none of the other sprinters had lead-out men present ... and the pedigree of their support in some cases is several classes above that of N.Haas so lets not be so assured that he would actually have been present. You state it as a good chance; but whilst I fully agree that he would've been more likely than Haussler I see that scenario as being more of a "maybe".

Second, I'm struggling to find any real history of N.Haas as a lead-out man; rather his history is far more that of an opportunist who looks out for himself. Has he ever rode alongside Matthews in the same team let alone know "how he operates" ? Had there been a plan of having a B option then most certainly the case for selecting him raises immensely but I remain somewhat ambivalent as to his utility under the stated race strategy.

I grant you that there was a lot of quality a couple of minutes behind, as is always the case in WCRR's. Haas may well have been dropped from the front group. But he and Durbridge are the only other two Australians this year to have shown the quality to be there in the finale of hard raced classics. And Durbridge is of course coming back from injury. Which leaves Haas, who - apparently - was in top form.

Surely, you select to have some 'maybe' support in the finale ahead 'no chance whatsever'. I mean Haussler has barely raced at all. What shape that 'maybe' support takes is unpredictable - maybe he gives one good chase 3k's to go. Maybe it's a lead out. Maybe it's marking someone. Surely it's better to have a teammate than not....

Haussler did his job considering the circumstances behind his selection - You have to consider that the selectors struggled to fill a team - which is probably a combination of riders being tired and not wanting to ride alongside Mathhews - I will add that Haas came through the NRS which seems to be a hindrance to being selected in Australian teams - Finally, Haussler is the most unfilled talent in Aussie cycling in the last 20 years - What could have been with more dedication and professionalism.
 
Hmmm I disagree to the extent that he wasn't always racing under an Australian licence, so don't think that statement is true. Also for all bar the years of 2012 (when Gerrans had won MSR that year) I don't think he deserved leadership status other riders such as Gerrans, Goss or Matthews.
 
Re:

greenedge said:
Hmmm I disagree to the extent that he wasn't always racing under an Australian licence, so don't think that statement is true. Also for all bar the years of 2012 (when Gerrans had won MSR that year) I don't think he deserved leadership status other riders such as Gerrans, Goss or Matthews.

Haussler has rarely prepared himself like a true pro should in his career, and he should have done much better - My post is referring to life as a pro for a trade team - Note that Haussler was born in Australia and lived there until he was 14 - He moved to Germany to develop his cycling and had dual citizenship of both Australia and Germany - He raced under German nationality in the junior and under 23's but then chose to ride as an Australian national as a senior which meant he renounced his German citizenship. To classify him as a non-Australian is wrong
 
Re:

yaco said:
Apparently Albasini has renewed at Orica for two years - Thought it was to be a one year renewal - In saying that he shown no signs of slowing down.

Still a good rider but I think he hit his peak a few years ago when he was very unlucky not win at least one monument or classic. Sometimes he needed to be a bit more cold blooded like Gerrans.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
greenedge said:
Hmmm I disagree to the extent that he wasn't always racing under an Australian licence, so don't think that statement is true. Also for all bar the years of 2012 (when Gerrans had won MSR that year) I don't think he deserved leadership status other riders such as Gerrans, Goss or Matthews.

Haussler has rarely prepared himself like a true pro should in his career, and he should have done much better - My post is referring to life as a pro for a trade team - Note that Haussler was born in Australia and lived there until he was 14 - He moved to Germany to develop his cycling and had dual citizenship of both Australia and Germany - He raced under German nationality in the junior and under 23's but then chose to ride as an Australian national as a senior which meant he renounced his German citizenship. To classify him as a non-Australian is wrong

Health issues and injuries didn't help.
 
Re: Re:

The Hegelian said:
dirkprovin said:
The Hegelian said:
May I say: There's a good chance Haas would have been there in the finale. It was a rugged sprint, but he would have been better placed to lead Matthews out than Haussler who finished 5.49 down. With a lead out, who knows? Definitely gets closer to the Kristoff and Sagan doesn't he?

I really like Haussler, but that was a really stupid selection.
\

Maybe, maybe not. Firstly none of the other sprinters had lead-out men present ... and the pedigree of their support in some cases is several classes above that of N.Haas so lets not be so assured that he would actually have been present. You state it as a good chance; but whilst I fully agree that he would've been more likely than Haussler I see that scenario as being more of a "maybe".

Second, I'm struggling to find any real history of N.Haas as a lead-out man; rather his history is far more that of an opportunist who looks out for himself. Has he ever rode alongside Matthews in the same team let alone know "how he operates" ? Had there been a plan of having a B option then most certainly the case for selecting him raises immensely but I remain somewhat ambivalent as to his utility under the stated race strategy.

I grant you that there was a lot of quality a couple of minutes behind, as is always the case in WCRR's. Haas may well have been dropped from the front group. But he and Durbridge are the only other two Australians this year to have shown the quality to be there in the finale of hard raced classics. And Durbridge is of course coming back from injury. Which leaves Haas, who - apparently - was in top form.

Surely, you select to have some 'maybe' support in the finale ahead 'no chance whatsever'. I mean Haussler has barely raced at all. What shape that 'maybe' support takes is unpredictable - maybe he gives one good chase 3k's to go. Maybe it's a lead out. Maybe it's marking someone. Surely it's better to have a teammate than not....
Umm, Jay McCarthy? I know he had a poor race by his standards, but I suspect that both him and Haas would be redundant as either would have a claim to "plan b" if they were on.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
yaco said:
Apparently Albasini has renewed at Orica for two years - Thought it was to be a one year renewal - In saying that he shown no signs of slowing down.

Still a good rider but I think he hit his peak a few years ago when he was very unlucky not win at least one monument or classic. Sometimes he needed to be a bit more cold blooded like Gerrans.

What Albasini can do is support other rider's objectives, something Gerrans can't do at the same level.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
movingtarget said:
yaco said:
Apparently Albasini has renewed at Orica for two years - Thought it was to be a one year renewal - In saying that he shown no signs of slowing down.

Still a good rider but I think he hit his peak a few years ago when he was very unlucky not win at least one monument or classic. Sometimes he needed to be a bit more cold blooded like Gerrans.

What Albasini can do is support other rider's objectives, something Gerrans can't do at the same level.

Like I said, Alabasini is still a good rider. Gerrans was a good rider. Some days a very good rider. But the BMC signing of Gerrans confuses me.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
greenedge said:
Hmmm I disagree to the extent that he wasn't always racing under an Australian licence, so don't think that statement is true. Also for all bar the years of 2012 (when Gerrans had won MSR that year) I don't think he deserved leadership status other riders such as Gerrans, Goss or Matthews.

Haussler has rarely prepared himself like a true pro should in his career, and he should have done much better - My post is referring to life as a pro for a trade team - Note that Haussler was born in Australia and lived there until he was 14 - He moved to Germany to develop his cycling and had dual citizenship of both Australia and Germany - He raced under German nationality in the junior and under 23's but then chose to ride as an Australian national as a senior which meant he renounced his German citizenship. To classify him as a non-Australian is wrong

I know he's an Aussie, but just don't think labelling him as the biggest wasted talent in Australia is correct when for a few worlds he didn't ride for Australia (not going into the notion of wasted talent because I don't know enough). Surely there's others who can be labelled as wasted talents too in Australia who more readily spring to mind.
 

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