[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

[movingtarget]

Re:

It probably isn't irrelevant - its never irrelevant when you are bonking that hard.

Evans bonked hard in the Giro when he was a young rider but still went on to five podiums. It tends to happen more to the younger riders. The Giro was a hard race this year and Yates was probably paying for his success in the first half of the race. I think Yates could podium at the Vuelta but it still won't be easy. It will still be a pretty good field with Lopez, Movistar, Porte, and Aru needing a result, Nibali if he rides.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

The uncertainty about Chaves is worrying.

Ewan will feel he has a point to prove at the Vuelta. He will want to rub the team managements noses in their disastrous Tour.

Agreed about Chaves. Has anyone heard what's going on with him? What little I've seen is very vague.

I don't know what sprinters will turn up but it often seems like there's a dearth of top-level sprinters at the Vuelta, allowing one guy to mop up a bunch of stages so the Vuelta could be a goldmine for Ewan.

Actually the sprinting field at the Vuelta could be stronger than at the Giro - Ewan//Viviani/Sagan and others.

 

[yaco]

Anyway think Green Edge will have some money in the budget even with the renewal of Yates x 2 - Ewan is leaving and it seems his sprint train of Kluge and Mezgec, Verona is linked to Movistar, Tuft and Hayman will retire and question marks on Durbridge, Howson, Power and Edmondson - Number one target should be Ackermann who is behind Sagan or Bennett or even wait one more year to get Bennett - Another climber type like Roche would be a good fit as well as one or two more developing classic riders and one or two workhorses.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Well Ewan and Mezgec have been entered for the Vuelta and Ewan is desperate to get a GT into his legs - Notice that Ewan is a late withdrawal from Ride London on Sunday.

I assume because Chaves wont ride? I think I read somewhere that there still is something wrong. That pretty lucke for Ewan if thats the case.

Si is obviously gonna ride, but is Adam? Guy has failed 3 straight GTs in a row. At least Simon Yates won 3 stages in the process of bonking - overall, a much more likeable rider as well.

Good to see Ewan riding. I expected Chaves to ride as well.

Chaves is not riding for the foreseeable future - Haig will lead the team at the Tour of Utah, while Yates is the leader at Poland and the Vuelta - Yates rides to the same level as the Giro and then a podium should be a certainty.

I guess you mean if he sustains his 2 week Giro level for 3 weeks.

Yates’ issue at the Giro was riding wastefully. White was so fixated on getting a gap for the TT that Yates had no hope of winning GC.

 

[del1962]

Haig has been an immpresive domestique his Vuelta working as a domestique, do people see him as a GT overall contender in the future?

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

Haig has been an immpresive domestique his Vuelta working as a domestique, do people see him as a GT overall contender in the future?

Definitely. He was excellent in the Giro too. 2nd in l'avenir a few years ago.....

 

[claude cat]

If he can improve his TTing, I would say he's got a very good chance of making inroads in GC battles.
To be fair, being a domestique in GTs, he's never had to put it all on the line in a TT.

 

[yaco]

Haig definitely needs to improve his TT - He's been leader in three stage races and put in average efforts - He is suspect on the steepest of climbs so needs a parcour which has long grinding climbs - Haig can do exceptionally well in the World's if the team backs him,instead of Porte.

 

[The_Beach]

Re:

Haig has been an immpresive domestique his Vuelta working as a domestique, do people see him as a GT overall contender in the future?

He's awesome. Only concern, besides the TT, is that his level seem to drop in the third week. Both in the Vuelta last year and Giro this year, he has looked much better in the first and second week, than ind the third. Hopefully he will prove me wrong tomorrow and saturday, his performance yesterday was in that regard promising.

 

[Celestia]

Mitchelton-Scott seems to be losing alot of their climbers.. Kreuziger, Verona and Power all gone. Only Nieve, Hamilton, Howson (is he resigned 2019?), Haig and now Grmay left as domestiques. Will this be enough support or is there more signings on the way?

Also does anyone know if Durbo, Howson, Alba, Edmonson, Bewley will be retained?

 

[Tugboat]

Could almost start calling Mitchelton-Scott a Kiwi team in 2019 with Bauer, Bewley, Smith and Stannard* all lining up for the team!!

*Rob Stannard grew up in NZ and raced here as a junior. Only moved back to Oz as Cycling Australia has a programme to support U23 riders on the road whereas Cycling New Zealand is blinkered to only supporting a track programme.

 

[greenedge]

Re:

Mitchelton-Scott seems to be losing alot of their climbers.. Kreuziger, Verona and Power all gone. Only Nieve, Hamilton, Howson (is he resigned 2019?), Haig and now Grmay left as domestiques. Will this be enough support or is there more signings on the way?

Also does anyone know if Durbo, Howson, Alba, Edmonson, Bewley will be retained?

Could count Bookwalter as a good mountain domestique, should be able to be up there on steady climbs. I think in at least one GT Chaves or even Adam Yates might have to prepare to ride as a domestique if Simon looks like he could win a race.

Also, if Simon does decide to ride the Giro, a support squad of at least 3 of Haig, Nieve, Howson, Bookwalter and Grmay should be enough, unless if Sky decide to send a very strong team around Thomas (if Bernal rides as sole leader he won't have as strong of a team as Thomas could command). Movistar could be dangerous too, along with Bahrain if Nibali rides but at least there'll be some other teams who will take on the pacemaking.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Mitchelton-Scott seems to be losing alot of their climbers.. Kreuziger, Verona and Power all gone. Only Nieve, Hamilton, Howson (is he resigned 2019?), Haig and now Grmay left as domestiques. Will this be enough support or is there more signings on the way?

Also does anyone know if Durbo, Howson, Alba, Edmonson, Bewley will be retained?

- Yates x2 took a big chunk of the budget, so MS have been forced to moneyball new signings, Hence why they've signed five first year WT riders for 2019 being Affini, Smith,Schultz, Scotson and Stannard - Actually they are OK on the climbing side with Howson,Haig, Bookwalter, Grmay, Yates x 2 and Chaves - They ideally could do with one more climbing domestique, though I feel their hole is in the Classics squad - Trentin is an A1 rider, Durbridge can do better than 2018, expect Edmondson to step up, Mezgec is decent and will ride more in the classics with the departure of Ewan, Albasini is still valuable especially in the Ardennes, Smith will be decent while Stannard and Affini long term prospects - I'm MS and my number one target for 2020 is Matthews.

IMO, S.Yates should target the 2019 TDF because of the parcours - MS always do well in TT's while the ITT is a rolling one - Combine that with it being more mountainous than normal and it suits.

You could have a team like S.Yates, Haig, Howson, Impey, Bookwalter, Meyer, Trentin and Juul-Jensen - I would leave Nieve, Grmay, Durbridge and the like for the Giro and the Vuelta - I'll also add I only want Yates x2 to compete for GC in one GT in 2019 - Think you shouldn't ride 2 GT's for GC every year.

Unsigned riders - Edmondson has renewed though it hasn't been made public - Have no information about Albasini, Howson and Durbridge.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Mitchelton-Scott seems to be losing alot of their climbers.. Kreuziger, Verona and Power all gone. Only Nieve, Hamilton, Howson (is he resigned 2019?), Haig and now Grmay left as domestiques. Will this be enough support or is there more signings on the way?

Also does anyone know if Durbo, Howson, Alba, Edmonson, Bewley will be retained?

Could count Bookwalter as a good mountain domestique, should be able to be up there on steady climbs. I think in at least one GT Chaves or even Adam Yates might have to prepare to ride as a domestique if Simon looks like he could win a race.

Also, if Simon does decide to ride the Giro, a support squad of at least 3 of Haig, Nieve, Howson, Bookwalter and Grmay should be enough, unless if Sky decide to send a very strong team around Thomas (if Bernal rides as sole leader he won't have as strong of a team as Thomas could command). Movistar could be dangerous too, along with Bahrain if Nibali rides but at least there'll be some other teams who will take on the pacemaking.

Bookwalter did some great work at BMC. Valuable team player.

 

[greenedge]

I'm sceptical of Meyer for the TDF, the last GT he finished was back in 2013. Riding the Vuelta or Giro might be better for him and the team, Hepburn did a great job throughout this year and would deserve a place again in the TDF squad.

I agree about Bookwalter, it was painful seeing him work so much for TJVG at Utah only for TJ to completely collapse.

 

[yaco]

Re:

I'm sceptical of Meyer for the TDF, the last GT he finished was back in 2013. Riding the Vuelta or Giro might be better for him and the team, Hepburn did a great job throughout this year and would deserve a place again in the TDF squad.

I agree about Bookwalter, it was painful seeing him work so much for TJVG at Utah only for TJ to completely collapse.

Hepburn had an average year and struggled at the TDF - My indicative team for the TDF can be tweaked, though it's emphasising a team which can produce a good TTT and provide enough support in the mountains - Will add that Meyer will be riding a GT in 2019,so its a matter of which one.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I thought this time they would send Simon to Tour as he is their best and the parcours suit him very well and the Giro is TT heavy. Adam for Giro/Vuelta and Chaves would be eased over the season for Vuelta only due to mono.

 

[yaco]

Re:

I thought this time they would send Simon to Tour as he is their best and the parcours suit him very well and the Giro is TT heavy. Adam for Giro/Vuelta and Chaves would be eased over the season for Vuelta only due to mono.

I agree 100% with your thoughts - MS management listened to the riders wants in selecting GC's - Though it's pretty easy when Chaves doesn't want to to ride the TDF, while A.Yates would ride the TDF every year.

 

[jaylew]

It's a bit curious to me that the only Aussie WT team doesn't have any of the top Aussie riders. Not saying they absolutely have to but you could easily argue that they only have 1 of the top 10 and none of the top 5.

 

[yaco]

Re:

It's a bit curious to me that the only Aussie WT team doesn't have any of the top Aussie riders. Not saying they absolutely have to but you could easily argue that they only have 1 of the top 10 and none of the top 5.

It comes down to a variety of factors - Budget being taken up by Yates x 2 and GC support, finding the right riders as the stars dont always align, They currently have Haig who is continuing to improve and they have high expectations for Hamilton - Their biggest mistake was letting Matthews go.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

It's a bit curious to me that the only Aussie WT team doesn't have any of the top Aussie riders. Not saying they absolutely have to but you could easily argue that they only have 1 of the top 10 and none of the top 5.

It comes down to a variety of factors - Budget being taken up by Yates x 2 and GC support, finding the right riders as the stars dont always align, They currently have Haig who is continuing to improve and they have high expectations for Hamilton - Their biggest mistake was letting Matthews go.

Its partly down to how the team has evolved and that has been in the direction of GT GC and they happen to have brought on the likes of both Yates and Chaves and all three of them have shown considerable loyalty to the team and have brought in a GT win, GT podiums and a monument. We can debate as to whether Ewan will or will not evolve into a real top line sprinter but he was just too labour intensive to co-exist with GC at major races and the writing was already on the wall in 2016 ….. and should have been comprehended by Ewan, his manager AND MS hierarchy.

I'll also pose the question; just who ARE the top AUS riders at the moment and would they be a fit for MS ?? Some might say Richie but the reality is that he's NOT going to win a GT, will be lucky to even podium as I suspect his chances are on the decline. Dennis is probably the best TTer going around but its taken him until 2018 to actually deliver at World level. Is he much more than a TT specialist ?? Whilst he can go uphill and can compete at some 1 weekers; he's unlikely to ever really be a GT contender. Neither of them have any one day pedigree so they don't fit the classics niche that MS may wish to improve so whilst I might've looked at Dennis back at the beginning of MS; I don't see either as being fits.

Matthews ?? I'd've liked to have seen him stay as Gerrans could've been pushed aside in his final year (as indeed he was) but the Sunweb offer was an excellent one and it also had the lure of Matthews' better half working for that organization. Like Yaco, I'd like him back but can he be lured ? He seems happy at Sunweb; the main future sticking point will be the same that he would face at MS; that of his green jersey hopes being able to co-exist with a serious GC campaign. He is an absolutely first rate and versatile rider but I fear that his palmares will suffer due to his career largely running parallel with that of Sagan who is just that tad better. He CAN win major one dayers but other than MSR, monuments may be a step too far.

As for what AUS riders MS DOES currently have; Haig looks the best GC contender of his crop of Australian climbers. Whether he has it to be a GT contender rather than just the prime quality super domestique he already is has yet to be proven either way but he is already showing himself capable of riding top 10 at strong 1 weekers against legitimate competition. He also shows high promise of being competitive at bare minimum in the Ardennes races as well as the late season ITA races so LBL & Lombardie could well be legit targets. Whilst I don't think either Hamilton or Stannard are GT contenders, at least one of them may be a 1 week contender and hilly one-dayers within their scope.

 

[42x16ss]

You're also forgetting Durbridge, who is becoming a steady presence in the classics. Hepburn is steadily improving each year and Nick Schultz has real potential as well.

Rob Power is someone who MS might regret letting go, he has been showing glimpses of the talent that saw him as such a good U23.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

It's a bit curious to me that the only Aussie WT team doesn't have any of the top Aussie riders. Not saying they absolutely have to but you could easily argue that they only have 1 of the top 10 and none of the top 5.

It comes down to a variety of factors - Budget being taken up by Yates x 2 and GC support, finding the right riders as the stars dont always align, They currently have Haig who is continuing to improve and they have high expectations for Hamilton - Their biggest mistake was letting Matthews go.

Its partly down to how the team has evolved and that has been in the direction of GT GC and they happen to have brought on the likes of both Yates and Chaves and all three of them have shown considerable loyalty to the team and have brought in a GT win, GT podiums and a monument. We can debate as to whether Ewan will or will not evolve into a real top line sprinter but he was just too labour intensive to co-exist with GC at major races and the writing was already on the wall in 2016 ….. and should have been comprehended by Ewan, his manager AND MS hierarchy.

I'll also pose the question; just who ARE the top AUS riders at the moment and would they be a fit for MS ?? Some might say Richie but the reality is that he's NOT going to win a GT, will be lucky to even podium as I suspect his chances are on the decline. Dennis is probably the best TTer going around but its taken him until 2018 to actually deliver at World level. Is he much more than a TT specialist ?? Whilst he can go uphill and can compete at some 1 weekers; he's unlikely to ever really be a GT contender. Neither of them have any one day pedigree so they don't fit the classics niche that MS may wish to improve so whilst I might've looked at Dennis back at the beginning of MS; I don't see either as being fits.

Matthews ?? I'd've liked to have seen him stay as Gerrans could've been pushed aside in his final year (as indeed he was) but the Sunweb offer was an excellent one and it also had the lure of Matthews' better half working for that organization. Like Yaco, I'd like him back but can he be lured ? He seems happy at Sunweb; the main future sticking point will be the same that he would face at MS; that of his green jersey hopes being able to co-exist with a serious GC campaign. He is an absolutely first rate and versatile rider but I fear that his palmares will suffer due to his career largely running parallel with that of Sagan who is just that tad better. He CAN win major one dayers but other than MSR, monuments may be a step too far.

As for what AUS riders MS DOES currently have; Haig looks the best GC contender of his crop of Australian climbers. Whether he has it to be a GT contender rather than just the prime quality super domestique he already is has yet to be proven either way but he is already showing himself capable of riding top 10 at strong 1 weekers against legitimate competition. He also shows high promise of being competitive at bare minimum in the Ardennes races as well as the late season ITA races so LBL & Lombardie could well be legit targets. Whilst I don't think either Hamilton or Stannard are GT contenders, at least one of them may be a 1 week contender and hilly one-dayers within their scope.

I think Haig is more likely than Dennis somehow although Dennis has improved his GT riding. Haig is pretty consistent on the climbs, not far off the elite group usually.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

I think Haig is more likely than Dennis somehow although Dennis has improved his GT riding. Haig is pretty consistent on the climbs, not far off the elite group usually.

I very much agree. Haig has shown impressive maturity and race smarts so far this year. When he has finally been gapped, rather than trying to bust his boiler and going "deep into the red" he's been sticking to the tempo that he can handle and has been able to limit his losses very well. Whilst I think it will be next year before he rides a GT for GC, although riding Vuelta as option B could occur, it would not surprise to see him green-lighted for GC at some more 1 weekers during this year.

With Dennis we only have the evidence of last year's Giro as proof of any pretentions to being a GT rider ….. and even then he fell away late in the race. Otherwise his GT record, despite its TT stage wins has far more DNFs than finishes. It's his, and his team's call, but one may ask why throw away the chance to consolidate as the premier ITTer of your generation in search of a target that will almost certainly prove elusive and beyond his scope as a rider.

 

[Lequack]

Their Twitter has been suspended for almost a week now. What's going on?
https://twitter.com/mitcheltonscott?lang=en