[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

[gerrans for the win]

The only ones that would care would be diehard cycling fans....your average joe wouldn't know the difference

x1 this ^

could see this happening... "another win for the oz team in the tour blah blah lead out by renshaw myer an so on,now to the weather"

aussie would cheer for anyone in aussie colours or team!!,an lets be honest,poms are just a poor rip off of a aussie

 

[AussieGoddess]

I think cycling Aussies would prefer to see Goss given a shot, BUT I also think they would love the idea of a successful Aussie team, which Cav would bring. And as loads of young Aussies are from a track background, and sprinter mould, Cav could be a great inspiration for them.

So he wouldn't be a bad signing.

If Cav + Renshaw went to GreenEdge, and they missed out on Goss, I would be ok with it.

Goss + Renshaw would be perfect, but I'd prefer Cav + Renshaw to JUST Goss.

yeah I agree with this too.

Would prefer Goss and Renshaw in a perfect world .... but Cav would certainly mean success for the Aussie Team and that is obviously the teams main objective.

 

[sportzchick]

On our no GC contender - if we can get someone who can start say winning sprint (cav)TT's (martin) or Stage/classics wins (Thor?) early then we can afford to give Myer bros/Broadbridge time to devlope into good TDF chances...

 

[zimmer86]

meh, id go for tony martin and work on him to becoming a top GC.

 

[AussieGoddess]

Thor would be awesome!!!!

I would so love to see him riding for an Aussie team.

 

[El Imbatido]

meh, id go for tony martin and work on him to becoming a top GC.

Why do people keep thinking Tony Martin could be a GC contender?? Is it because he won the crappest parcoured Paris-Nice in 10 years?? Is it because Phil and Paul kept telling everyone.

His TT would suffer immensly if he was to be come a GC man.....and even if he did...IMO he would only become like what Michael Rogers is now: never a GT man but could win a week long race if the parcours are suited to him.

And please don't say Michael Rogers would have won the Tour in 07: He would have been carved up by Rasmussen on the final climb to Tignes and his TT has not been awesome since he last won the world TT.

Sorry for the rant...ive just had enough of Martin becoming a GC contender. This was not directed directly at you zimmer but everyone

 

[Sydney21]

I think cycling Aussies would prefer to see Goss given a shot, BUT I also think they would love the idea of a successful Aussie team, which Cav would bring. And as loads of young Aussies are from a track background, and sprinter mould, Cav could be a great inspiration for them.

So he wouldn't be a bad signing.

If Cav + Renshaw went to GreenEdge, and they missed out on Goss, I would be ok with it.

Goss + Renshaw would be perfect, but I'd prefer Cav + Renshaw to JUST Goss.

Goss-Renshaw would be great but it is not essential.

Signing Cav would be horrible! I think he and Renshaw will go to Sky and continue to be successful anyway. GE can then build up a nice train to rival them in the sprints.

Assuming Goss signs, there is no shortage of brilliant riders that could do the same job for Gossy with a bit of experience and perhaps have a chance to ride for themself in a Grand tour as well. I'm thinking Henderson would be awesome in a lead out role. He has a really long powerful sprint. Sutton or Howard could also do the job - both similar top speeds to Renshaw.

Sky will probably have Eddy Bos, Thomas, Renshaw and Cav as the crucial links in the train and it would be great to see Cooke, Hayman, Lancaster type riders matching their trains and delivering gossy and his lead out man to the 500.

 

[abbaskip]

Goss-Renshaw would be great but it is not essential.

Signing Cav would be horrible! I think he and Renshaw will go to Sky and continue to be successful anyway. GE can then build up a nice train to rival them in the sprints.

Assuming Goss signs, there is no shortage of brilliant riders that could do the same job for Gossy with a bit of experience and perhaps have a chance to ride for themself in a Grand tour as well. I'm thinking Henderson would be awesome in a lead out role. He has a really long powerful sprint. Sutton or Howard could also do the job - both similar top speeds to Renshaw.

Sky will probably have Eddy Bos, Thomas, Renshaw and Cav as the crucial links in the train and it would be great to see Cooke, Hayman, Lancaster type riders matching their trains and delivering gossy and his lead out man to the 500.

There is no shortage of riders that could do a recent job, but I'm not sure any could do as good a job as Renshaw. Howard is more about his kick, and I'd prefer him to be trained up as the next big sprinter. Sutton isn't as fast as Renshaw, or as good at positioning his sprinter.

Henderson is ok, but I don't think he is a strong as Renshaw either. HTC clearly thought the same when they had them in the same team.

Having guys like Cooke and Hayman would be great though. And guys like Bobridge and Meyer could also do a great job in the big races, whilst rest of the season developing them for bigger individual prizes. A bit like Sky use Thomas I guess.

 

[abbaskip]

I don't really see why Goss would sign up to be the second sprinter on any team at this point. The guy has won Milan San Remo. He should be going somewhere where he'll be the main sprinter in whatever races he likes rather than taking Cavendish's scraps.

(Admittedly, being another team's main sprinter in the biggest races also involves taking Cavendish's scraps in another sense.)

Yeah, I agree. Which is why I never suggested all three (the person you quoted, quoted my post, then seemed to imply I suggested all three).

Having some Aussie strong men chase down a break and build a train for Renshaw to lead Goss out would be great though.

And whilst Cav doesn't need Renshaw to win, having Renshaw compete against him could hurt his chances! We've seen how strong Renshaw is in the last km, and how well he places his sprinter.

Using Goss as the man in front of Renshaw is silly. HTC did it this tour because they wanted to take Goss, and weren't sure what role to use him in. He clearly wasn't in top form, so that role suited him perfectly. The Goss we saw at the beginning of the season, and in Milan San Remo is way too good for that role.

 

[greenedge]

Teklehaimanot would improve however once he races more in Europe. He shall be attacking and learning to conserve energy. He would benefit from any experience and will learn tactics from the Meyers/ Bobridge as fellow young racers. ( I'm suggesting them as they all raced on the track and you need good tactics ). Vaughters will soon come out with how he nurtured all of them. Would Wilson be coming as well???

Great to have riders signing for them of their calibre. How long is Simon Clarke's contract ( because i think he is hot property )???

Haussler probably won't come unless he feels there is not enough room in Garmin for him. I would also love for Howard to come over. Gerrans/ Hansen will be great road captains and members of the train. Sulzberger should come over as he is a talent that is maybe not being given so much of a chance and with Offredo and Pinot they have other young talent there.

 

[Sophistic]

If GE doesnt land one of Hushovd, Martin, Gilbert...i have doubts that they would get a WT license, they certainly wouldnt be in the top 15.

 

[greenedge]

His TT would suffer immensly if he was to be come a GC man.....and even if he did...IMO he would only become like what Michael Rogers is now: never a GT man but could win a week long race if the parcours are suited to him.

And please don't say Michael Rogers would have won the Tour in 07: He would have been carved up by Rasmussen on the final climb to Tignes and his TT has not been awesome since he last won the world TT.

Calm down we have Cadel Evans for the GC win. I also think that the ToC was not really suited to Rogers either and yet he beat Levi. He has beat Levi in ITT's ( WC )and could beat him on the climbs so he might be considered better than Levi ( though Levi came 3rd in 07)

Goss can win the sprints and keep pressure of the younger guns who shall focus on the Olympics next year.

 

[greenedge]

Goss-Renshaw would be great but it is not essential.
Sky will probably have Eddy Bos, Thomas, Renshaw and Cav as the crucial links in the train and it would be great to see Cooke, Hayman, Lancaster type riders matching their trains and delivering gossy and his lead out man to the 500.

They would also have Wiggins in races he is not planning to RACE to win. Wouldn't they also have Swift. Swift could in effect maybe nullify Renshaw as he is great at positioning as well. Though he might go to the smaller races or other GT's which would be a pity ( as Cav would relegate him and he does not bring the all round capabilities of EBH, or Geraint )

 

[Ferminal]

If GE doesnt land one of Hushovd, Martin, Gilbert...i have doubts that they would get a WT license, they certainly wouldnt be in the top 15.

Hushovd doesn't have a huge bag of points.

If Goss signs it will be quite easy to make up the rest just by filling out a squad.

 

[Sophistic]

Goss had a great season but not so much last year, Hushovd is no Gilbert points wise but 3 TDF and 1 Vuelta stage wins as well as 2nd place at PR and the freakin World Champs (UCI says ALL events on the calendar) should count for something.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Calm down we have Cadel Evans for the GC win. I also think that the ToC was not really suited to Rogers either and yet he beat Levi. He has beat Levi in ITT's ( WC )and could beat him on the climbs so he might be considered better than Levi ( though Levi came 3rd in 07)

The ToC was very suited to Rogers. Long and gradual climbs that nullify attacking (Rogers has pretty much zero burst) and a good length TT. It was very much the kind of race Rogers can excel at.

Rogers is NOT a better GC man than Levi. He has beaten Levi in ITTs, but when was the last time Rogers produced a TT at the level of those Worlds titles?

Let's have a look at their recent head-to-head shall we?

2008 Dauphiné: Levi 3rd, Rogers 11th (and Levi was just coming off the Giro too)
2008 Olympics ITT: Levi 3rd, Rogers 8th
2008 Worlds ITT: Levi 4th, Rogers 12th
2009 Tour of California: Levi 1st, Rogers 3rd
2009 Giro: Levi 6th, Rogers 8th - where Levi's result was considered disappointing, and Rogers lost 2'26" in the long ITT to Levi, and also lost out to him on all mountain stages except one (Blockhaus).
2010 California: Levi 3rd, Rogers 1st
2010 Tour: Levi 13th, Rogers 37th, Levi ahead on ALL mountain stages
2011 Paris-Nice: Levi 8th, Rogers 12th, Levi put a minute into Rogers in the ITT

So basically, what I'm saying is...

Rogers is not as good as Levi in the climbs OR the ITT, and in recent head to heads the only time he's beaten him is in that California Tour. Over 3 weeks the last time Rogers outperformed Levi was when Levi was racing for Gerolsteiner and Rogers was popping over to Freiburg on his days off, and again with the exception of the 2010 Tour of California, Levi has been tearing strips off Rogers in ITTs for the last three years.

 

[Sydney21]

They would also have Wiggins in races he is not planning to RACE to win. Wouldn't they also have Swift. Swift could in effect maybe nullify Renshaw as he is great at positioning as well. Though he might go to the smaller races or other GT's which would be a pity ( as Cav would relegate him and he does not bring the all round capabilities of EBH, or Geraint )

Frankly Swift bordered on useless in many stages at the tour this year. He's a good sprinter but a year or 2 racing giro or vuelta would be good for him. Because Thomas and Eddy Bos are so versatile and super strong the only real man you would have to dedicate exclusively to looking after Cav would be Renshaw - 4-5 riders could be part of the train and work for wiggo as well whilst the other couple be dedicated solely to wiggo.

Sky will have a good enough team to achieve both goals with guys who can climb and be part of the leadout such as Lovkist, Rogers, Geriant and Eddy.

 

[theyoungest]

The ToC was very suited to Rogers. Long and gradual climbs that nullify attacking (Rogers has pretty much zero burst) and a good length TT. It was very much the kind of race Rogers can excel at.

An on-form Rogers is quite good at explosive climbs as well (cf. Tirreno 2010)

 

[ingsve]

Frankly Swift bordered on useless in many stages at the tour this year. He's a good sprinter but a year or 2 racing giro or vuelta would be good for him. Because Thomas and Eddy Bos are so versatile and super strong the only real man you would have to dedicate exclusively to looking after Cav would be Renshaw - 4-5 riders could be part of the train and work for wiggo as well whilst the other couple be dedicated solely to wiggo.

Sky will have a good enough team to achieve both goals with guys who can climb and be part of the leadout such as Lovkist, Rogers, Geriant and Eddy.

I think part of the issue with Swift is that hte sprints in the Tour are a different beast than sprints in a week long race. The intensity and nervousness makes it a lot harder to navigate and if you're not used to those sprints you can get lost pretty easily. You saw a bit of the same thing with Galimzyanov who has been very good at navigating sprints on his own in lesser races but at the Tour he got lost.

 

[Tuarts]

Whilst picking though the holes of swiss cheese statements is fun, more "news"

Goss on radar of new team

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2011/08/06/251241_sport-news.html

With a direct quote from one of the actual 'movers'

"Matt Goss was out of contract anyway, so we're having ongoing discussions with him, and Mark [Renshaw] we'll certainly discuss with him today," Bannan said

Renshaw being talked to today. Wonder if the 'C' word will be brought up.

 

[Andy99]

I can see plenty of big name riders like Goss or Cav comitting to 'signing'

If the team does a pegasus, there would be plenty of teams willing to pick them up.

The risk would be for those riders who are not quite at the top of the game, or perhaps closing on retirement.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The ToC was very suited to Rogers. Long and gradual climbs that nullify attacking (Rogers has pretty much zero burst) and a good length TT. It was very much the kind of race Rogers can excel at.

Rogers is NOT a better GC man than Levi. He has beaten Levi in ITTs, but when was the last time Rogers produced a TT at the level of those Worlds titles?

Let's have a look at their recent head-to-head shall we?

2008 Dauphiné: Levi 3rd, Rogers 11th (and Levi was just coming off the Giro too)
2008 Olympics ITT: Levi 3rd, Rogers 8th
2008 Worlds ITT: Levi 4th, Rogers 12th
2009 Tour of California: Levi 1st, Rogers 3rd
2009 Giro: Levi 6th, Rogers 8th - where Levi's result was considered disappointing, and Rogers lost 2'26" in the long ITT to Levi, and also lost out to him on all mountain stages except one (Blockhaus).
2010 California: Levi 3rd, Rogers 1st
2010 Tour: Levi 13th, Rogers 37th, Levi ahead on ALL mountain stages
2011 Paris-Nice: Levi 8th, Rogers 12th, Levi put a minute into Rogers in the ITT

So basically, what I'm saying is...

Rogers is not as good as Levi in the climbs OR the ITT, and in recent head to heads the only time he's beaten him is in that California Tour. Over 3 weeks the last time Rogers outperformed Levi was when Levi was racing for Gerolsteiner and Rogers was popping over to Freiburg on his days off, and again with the exception of the 2010 Tour of California, Levi has been tearing strips off Rogers in ITTs for the last three years.

In stage races levi is better but I think some of the results you used to back up your contention are a little unfair on Mick. In one day ITT's, clearly Rogers is better.

 

[Ferminal]

Goss had a great season but not so much last year, Hushovd is no Gilbert points wise but 3 TDF and 1 Vuelta stage wins as well as 2nd place at PR and the freakin World Champs (UCI says ALL events on the calendar) should count for something.

PT/WT points

2011: Goss 217 Hushovd 83
2010: Goss 109 Hushovd 173

Total: Goss 326 Hushovd 256

It is unthinkable that they would end up without one of Cav, Hushovd or Goss.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

In stage races levi is better but I think some of the results you used to back up your contention are a little unfair on Mick. In one day ITT's, clearly Rogers is better.

The reason I've picked those results is because they're the only meaningful races both have finished in the last four years.

Rogers has a better history of ITTs - but when it comes to important ones, recently Levi's had his number.

Rogers is not, was not, has never been, and will never be, a GT contender to the extent that Levi was. Levi has been on the podium of multiple GTs.

I don't like Levi, as you well know, but let's be honest here, anybody saying Rogers is a better GT rider than Levi is wearing gold-and-green-tinted spectacles, or has a massive glass of Levi's patented Hater Juice.

 

[Nielsa]

Frankly Swift bordered on useless in many stages at the tour this year. He's a good sprinter but a year or 2 racing giro or vuelta would be good for him.

Agreed, when he was unable to hold Lars Bak's wheel on the Champs-Elysees, it became evident he's still too young, not strong enough to be part of a top lead-out train.
Swift has talent and pretty good results in lesser bunch sprints. Sky needs to give him more time, it's not good for a young rider to feel like dead weight on a team with ambitions to podium the GC & win bunch sprints.