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Hammer Series 2018 (25/5-27/5, 1/6-3/6 & 14/10)

Feb 25, 2015
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This year the Hammer series will be on 3 locations: Stavanger, Limburg & Hong Kong. After last year's TTT debacle, the teams will now start on set intervals.

Explanation of format: https://youtu.be/DR3e-u72iek

25/5 Climb

Hammer_Stavanger_2018_-_Profile_Climb


Hammer_Stavanger_2018_-_Map_Climb


26/5 Sprint

Hammer_Stavanger_2018_-_Profile_Sprint


Hammer_Stavanger_2018_-_Map_Sprint


27/5 Chase

Hammer_Stavanger_2018_-_Profile_Chase


Hammer_Stavanger_2018_-_Map_Chase


Position Time gap Difference
1 0:00
2 0:30 0:30
3 0:58 0:28
4 1:23 0:25
5 1:46 0:23
6 2:07 0:21
7 2:27 0:20
 
Despite the huge criticism in this forum I'm a fan. It was very entertaining last year and I am convinced it will again be this year. The time gaps for the chase are again way too small though.
Does anyone know whether it will be broadcasted. I'd be really happy about another gcn live stream which I think was very funny
 
If the more classic races can't compete, move the race instead of whining I say. Its only about one week here i May-June shouldn't be the biggest of problems. I dont know what to think about this, but will probably watch a bit.
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
Bye Bye Bicycle said:
Have a look at the Belgium Tour line-up. This crap here kills other traditional races. Just ignore it.
In all honesty, I care a lot less about the Belgium Tour than about this

In all honestly, while I have never really cared about the Belgium Tour, I care about this even less.

But hey, I guess Velon is doing something right if some people think that their glorified criteriums are worth watching.
 
Of course riders want to do this crap, it's getting paid for three days with a combined racing distance as long as your average GT stage. It's car crash racing, with brevity used as a synonym for excitement. THREE of these f***ing dog and pony shows in the season is a sign that this is going to be aggressively shoved down our throat until racing with any real endurance, and the point-to-point method that's served the sport so well for ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE is killed off in favour of one hour "sufferfests" and embarrassing buzzwords.

I refer you back to the finest, most succinct, and most accurate post that has possibly ever been made on the forum:
jens_attacks said:
No thanks no

**** off velon
Cycling embracing the Hammer Series is rather like sleeping with somebody who's HIV positive. It can be pleasurable, and potentially it can be done safely, but every time you do it, you carry with you the risk of contracting something that is inherently harmful, can potentially be lived with without significant ill effect but that will change you forever, and in less fortunate cases can potentially cause you a slow and agonizing premature death.

Anybody who tunes in to this, I will hold you personally responsible when races with long and glorious histories like Belgium and Luxembourg die. I will hold you personally responsible when the calendar consists of 70-80km races and Milan-San Remo is a dying ember considered as comically overlong as Bordeaux-Paris, and everything is held on closed circuits you pay to attend so you can pay to stand by the roadside and use festival toilets and eat overpriced popcorn. This Hammer Series bulls*** should have been a one-and-done, but no, because the men with powerpoint presentations in Velon decreed that this is the future, they're going to shove this down our throat until we're too gorged on crap to be able to stomach any real food. This isn't the sport I fell in love with. If when I first watched cycling I was confronted with "one hour sufferfests" and points systems that make a madison look like a match sprint in terms of clarity, I wouldn't still be watching. I wouldn't even have tuned back in. It's road cycling for X-Games marketing executives. "Road cycling... TO THE MAX". Bonus points for a flip. Maybe they can have a "joker lap" like Rallycross where each rider has to take a slightly steeper road but they can choose which lap they take it. Why not? After all, we can't have people watching that OLD, boring cycling where endurance is a factor and fans can tell who won because they crossed the finishing line first. Good god no.

And yes, this may pain me to say, but f*** you Amets Txurruka for betraying us all and going on with this charade.
 
Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Of course riders want to do this crap, it's getting paid for three days with a combined racing distance as long as your average GT stage. It's car crash racing, with brevity used as a synonym for excitement. THREE of these f***ing dog and pony shows in the season is a sign that this is going to be aggressively shoved down our throat until racing with any real endurance, and the point-to-point method that's served the sport so well for ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE is killed off in favour of one hour "sufferfests" and embarrassing buzzwords.

I refer you back to the finest, most succinct, and most accurate post that has possibly ever been made on the forum:
jens_attacks said:
No thanks no

**** off velon
Cycling embracing the Hammer Series is rather like sleeping with somebody who's HIV positive. It can be pleasurable, and potentially it can be done safely, but every time you do it, you carry with you the risk of contracting something that is inherently harmful, can potentially be lived with without significant ill effect but that will change you forever, and in less fortunate cases can potentially cause you a slow and agonizing premature death.

Anybody who tunes in to this, I will hold you personally responsible when races with long and glorious histories like Belgium and Luxembourg die. I will hold you personally responsible when the calendar consists of 70-80km races and Milan-San Remo is a dying ember considered as comically overlong as Bordeaux-Paris, and everything is held on closed circuits you pay to attend so you can pay to stand by the roadside and use festival toilets and eat overpriced popcorn. This Hammer Series bulls*** should have been a one-and-done, but no, because the men with powerpoint presentations in Velon decreed that this is the future, they're going to shove this down our throat until we're too gorged on crap to be able to stomach any real food. This isn't the sport I fell in love with. If when I first watched cycling I was confronted with "one hour sufferfests" and points systems that make a madison look like a match sprint in terms of clarity, I wouldn't still be watching. I wouldn't even have tuned back in. It's road cycling for X-Games marketing executives. "Road cycling... TO THE MAX". Bonus points for a flip. Maybe they can have a "joker lap" like Rallycross where each rider has to take a slightly steeper road but they can choose which lap they take it. Why not? After all, we can't have people watching that OLD, boring cycling where endurance is a factor and fans can tell who won because they crossed the finishing line first. Good god no.

And yes, this may pain me to say, but f*** you Amets Txurruka for betraying us all and going on with this charade.
tenor.gif
 
Gigs_98 said:
I'm curious, has any person who complains about this race even watched it last year?

Yes, but I was cautious so I made sure to bring a fork.
Which I jammed into my eye to distract me from the pain of watching this garbage.

Never again. This mess is the kind of dagger in the sport's heart that comes from the same minds that want to shorten the Giro and Vuelta to 2 weeks and make cycling only about the Tour de France.
 
Gigs_98 said:
I'm curious, has any person who complains about this race even watched it last year?
I watched the climb race, and I thought and still think it is an interesting concept, but this format shouldn't be the future of cycling, and it shouldn't be held at the expense of other regular races.
 
For me the biggest failure is the rabbit and hare TTT - The teams bunched up too much and there was non-stop drafting - At one stage you had 5 teams riding behind each other - It should be once you reach a team you then have to pass and the passed team backs off for a few seconds. - The climbing and the sprinting sections were OK - Ultimately any success will be determined by the attitude of the cyclists.
 
I also don't want this to be the future of cycling but really, does anyone? Maybe Velon, but that shouldn't really be surprising.
The thing is, we have so many regular cycling races on the calendar, so many of them being absolutely generic and without an own character, but when there is one new idea we immediately have to nuke it? The sprint race last year was one of the most entertaining days of racing of the whole cycling season but instead of appreciating it people hate it anyway, completely ignoring the success, just because of the irrational fear of it killing traditional road racing.
The hammer series isn't like sleeping with someone who has HIV, it's more like homosexuality which some people want to forbid because they think it will lead to a spreading of HIV and end in the extinction of the human race.
 
It's not about nuking NEW ideas. It's about nuking BAD ideas.

After one day, people thought "eh, this might work". After three, everybody seemed almost unanimous in agreement that it was a directly unfunny joke. The problem is, Velon have spent a lot of money on this "two hour painfest" and they've invested a lot of powerpoint presentations on this being a success, so they're going to stuff it down our throats until we like it, even if that takes ten or fifteen weekends away from actual bike racing, and they're not going to say "yes, we tried something new, but it didn't work, let's move on".

Because Velon are a lobby group. They're not invested in making existing races better. It's about the position of power. They're going up against the likes of ASO and Flanders Classics, not with them. They need to strengthen their own position, and right now, shaky, borderline vomit-inducing on-board footage and the Hammer Series is basically the sum total of what they've brought to the sport. Well, whoop dee f***ing do. Hence why they need to strengthen this regardless of whether it actually merits it, so that they actually have some negotiating power against people who control races that have enthralled people the world over for a century.
 
Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
It's not about nuking NEW ideas. It's about nuking BAD ideas.

And here, we're talking about one of the worst.
What makes this idea automatically bad? That it's a team event and not a individual competition where the team works together to help one rider? Well then screw the TTT WC as well (well, actually screw it indeed as long as they don't make national teams, but that's a whole different discussion). I have to ask again, did you watch the race? Because I found it great so I don't see why it's a bad idea.
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
Libertine Seguros said:
It's not about nuking NEW ideas. It's about nuking BAD ideas.

And here, we're talking about one of the worst.
What makes this idea automatically bad? That it's a team event and not a individual competition where the team works together to help one rider? Well then screw the TTT WC as well (well, actually screw it indeed as long as they don't make national teams, but that's a whole different discussion). I have to ask again, did you watch the race? Because I found it great so I don't see why it's a bad idea.
1) An "endurance sport" where three days of racing is less than one normal road race
2) A "sell to the highest bidder" system of a travelling circus, like Bernie Ecclestone's F1 leaving all the traditional homes to go to white elephants in absolutist monarchies and dictatorships
3) A system whereby crossing the finishing line first doesn't win you jack
4) The TTT
5) The actual riders themselves didn't know the rules, so woe betide the commentators trying to explain it
6) "If you are part of Velon you automatically take part" thus pulling major riders away from races that depend on their presence for survival, in favour of a race that doesn't benefit from their taking part
7) All of the drawbacks of a madison, none of the benefits
8) Paid tickets and popcorn. You know it's happening.
9) The fact it exists solely in marketing-speak and buzzwords that makes it sound like living in Dave Brailsford's head

Here's the thing: there is nothing wrong with the concept as a sport of road cycling. The problems cycling is facing at the moment are due to poor execution, vis-à-vis factors such as poor course design and an administrative/bureaucratic points system that favours conservative racing, and a divisions system that disincentivizes competition at the second tier/wildcard level and instead actively promotes the concentration of talents into a small handful of moneyed teams, which enables tighter control to be exerted over racing. Velon have a bunch of "revolutionary" solutions (that coincidentally work around them getting more money and control for less effort) and they're going around trying to convince people that the right problems exist that their solutions can solve.

Also, the TTT Worlds is dead, and good riddance to it.
 
I see this nonsense as basically track riding outdoors, rather than road cycling. And it appeals to me as much as the gimmicky borefest that is track racing does. I can see why riders and fans with short attention spans would like it, but can't see it threatening the future of proper road races, in the same way that track cycling never will. Simply because it's just nowhere near as good.
 
Feb 25, 2015
78
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I think a big problem with the Chase last year, was the route. You want to have 4 lane roads where, when the teams come close, every team picks a lane they then have to stay in. Instead, we had narrow roads, some of which didn't even have any road markings. Looking at the map this time, it seems they ride over main roads, so hopefully we won't have the same problems.
 
3) A system whereby crossing the finishing line first doesn't win you jack

Huh? Betancur crossed the finish first in the climb stage, thus Movistar won.
And as I recall, the team who crosses the line first in the chase will always be the winner of the overall event, unlike in regular TTTs.
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Gigs_98 said:
Libertine Seguros said:
It's not about nuking NEW ideas. It's about nuking BAD ideas.

And here, we're talking about one of the worst.
What makes this idea automatically bad? That it's a team event and not a individual competition where the team works together to help one rider? Well then screw the TTT WC as well (well, actually screw it indeed as long as they don't make national teams, but that's a whole different discussion). I have to ask again, did you watch the race? Because I found it great so I don't see why it's a bad idea.
1) An "endurance sport" where three days of racing is less than one normal road race
2) A "sell to the highest bidder" system of a travelling circus, like Bernie Ecclestone's F1 leaving all the traditional homes to go to white elephants in absolutist monarchies and dictatorships
3) A system whereby crossing the finishing line first doesn't win you jack
4) The TTT
5) The actual riders themselves didn't know the rules, so woe betide the commentators trying to explain it
6) "If you are part of Velon you automatically take part" thus pulling major riders away from races that depend on their presence for survival, in favour of a race that doesn't benefit from their taking part
7) All of the drawbacks of a madison, none of the benefits
8) Paid tickets and popcorn. You know it's happening.
9) The fact it exists solely in marketing-speak and buzzwords that makes it sound like living in Dave Brailsford's head

Here's the thing: there is nothing wrong with the concept as a sport of road cycling. The problems cycling is facing at the moment are due to poor execution, vis-à-vis factors such as poor course design and an administrative/bureaucratic points system that favours conservative racing, and a divisions system that disincentivizes competition at the second tier/wildcard level and instead actively promotes the concentration of talents into a small handful of moneyed teams, which enables tighter control to be exerted over racing. Velon have a bunch of "revolutionary" solutions (that coincidentally work around them getting more money and control for less effort) and they're going around trying to convince people that the right problems exist that their solutions can solve.

Also, the TTT Worlds is dead, and good riddance to it.
I agree with some of these points, to be more precise I agree with 2, 5, 6 and 9 and I'm not sure if 8 "you have to pay for tickets" really is the case, but if it is I 100% agree with that too. However:
2) Changing locations and bringing cycling to different cities is actually an interesting aspect I like, the problem lies within the "sell to the highest bidder". If that would change and Velon would actively look for places where you can organize a Hammer Series I'd actually like it.
5) That was a huge problem, but it's not like this won't change after the first edition
6) Nothing to add here, you are right this sucks
9) You are right again but that really is a minor problem imo.

About the other points:
1) The first two races are 80-90 kilometers long. That's short for road racing terms but as these races have a very high intensity it actually becomes a test of endurance. At least it's more of an endurance test than half of the tour de france stages every year.
3) Now we are right back at you complaining about new ideas and not about bad ideas. If you don't like this, fine, but you have to back it up with arguments. You can't say "crossing the finishing line first doesn't win you jack" is bad, period.
4) Horribly executed but I like the idea
7) To be honest, I've never watched a madison so I can't really say anything about this :eek:

Especially the short distance seems to be a problem for many people but I don't understand why. It's okay to have track cycling with races which are just a few thousand meters long, it's okay to have road racing with races around 200 k long and I also don't see anyone complaining about stuff like the race across america which is way longer than a road cycling race. It's okay to race on any distance but for some reason the area just below 100 kilometers is a no-go?

And about this short attention span nonsense, I was watching the races last year and I basically watched them for two hours nonstop, because there was constant action (at least in the sprint race). How often do you get that in normal road racing outside the cobbles classics?
 
Then put eleven billion metas volantes in road races, since that was what generated the earlier action. Maybe the Tour should put an intermediate sprint every 10km, that would sure liven up the maillot vert! A madison works exactly like the Hammer Series, with sprints every x number of laps, riders tagging in and out, short efforts to try to gain a lap, and so on, with the same drawbacks - confusion as to who's winning as they might be buried in the bunch while others are attacking, sometimes uneven judging of points criteria - but the benefit that as you can see the whole course at any one time, you can tell who the active rider is and how successful or unsuccessful any attack is proving at a glance. The short distance is a problem, because the sport is already trying to kill the endurance factor that makes road cycling what it is in a number of different ways, so the success of a format predicated on not needing endurance is antithetical.

About the selling to the highest bidder, it's more that once there's 10 of them on the calendar (Velon originally announced this was the intention), they can then have established locations... and then move as much cycling as possible away from old markets that don't pay as much, just like happened with F1. As for the tickets and popcorn, you know that's the long-term aim, right? Take one of the things that has been one of cycling's greatest draws for decades - that it's free to access, on the roads in front of you, it's the sport that goes to the common man, not that the common man goes to - and take that legacy and put it in a trash can and then set that trash can on fire. We've seen it with the Ronde van Vlaanderen, we've seen it with the London Olympic road races, Velon love the idea as it means less reliance on sponsors (which makes Vaughters' franchise idea - to protect his own hide and prevent other people growing their teams up the way he did, in case it's at his expense - more workable), and the Hammer Series is a perfect breeding ground for this business model.

If it results in a specific breed of cyclist that specialises in this kind of race, like track, cross, MTB or, God forbid, BMX, and yields some level of crossover, like criterium racing, then that's one thing. I believe we discussed ski-cross another time - another "shorter, more intense, more exciting" format which basically produces a worse version of normal Alpine skiing - as a comparison, where for the most part (a couple of exceptions like Daron Rahlves were mentioned) ski cross racers do their cute little races where coming out of the gate first means you win 99 times out of 100, and real skiers compete in real Alpine races. But if it starts dragging riders away from the normal road calendar - which it's already beginning to do as we see a team like Quick Step, one of the longest-serving bastions of Belgian cycling, not lining up for the Tour of Belgium in order to participate in this dog-and-pony show - then that is a problem, and a big one.

RHD, yes, Betancur won the stage for his team but only because he amassed a lot of points over several laps. In stage 2, Vanmarcke crossed the line showing off his team badge only to be told that actually he'd finished 3rd, with Trek riders buried deep within the bunch being the ones who actually won.

But seriously... "Hammer Climb", "Hammer Sprint", "Hammer Chase". It's like fricking NASCAR, everything's gotta be branded. The "Can-Am Duel", "Southern 500", "Quaker State 400 presented by Advance Auto Parts". Wouldn't surprise me if we get NASCAR-style automatic neutralizations and things to bunch the race up again if it's getting a bit boring, and other such artificial things. It just reeks of being completely forced, nothing organic about it at all. Like it's being crowbared in just because Velon doesn't think ASO are taking them seriously enough. Velon might just be the worst thing to happen to the sport since EPO.
 
The TTT last year was a a complete and total disaster and this coming from someone who usually enjoys watching both ITTs and TTTs. But that was hard to watch. Also if you're going to do something like this put it somewhere like Nurbergring that is actually equiped to handle something like this.

I think part of the idea was a crit type race, but selling tickets or something to bring in revenue. If they want revenue why exactly don't they do more with merchandising? That's what I don't get. T-shirts with riders pictures/names/nicknames would sell and bring in some of that needed more revenue. Yes the rider would get a percentage whatever is sold with his/her likeness/name/nickname on it.