Help with mountain bike (Forme or Diamondback?)

[King Boonen]

Hi,

So I'm looking to get a mountain bike and have limited it down to two models (and maybe wider depending on an answer to one question). I know a fair bit about road bikes but I'm pretty clueless about mountain bikes. Basically, I have come to the realisation that I'll never get the use out of a road bike that I'd like but I'll use a mountain bike.

My local bike shop has recommended either a Forme Sterndale 1.0

http://www.formebikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/sterndale1.php

or a Diamondback Response

http://www.diamondback.co.uk/MTB/ProductType/ProductRange/Product/Default.aspx?pc=1&pt=10&pg=8998 (It'll be in blue but can't find a photo)

Both come in at the same price. I have done a bit of research and the Diamondback seems to have the better components. I must admit I prefer the look of the Sterndale but I want to get the best bang for my buck. What do you think is the best bike? I'm looking for something I would be happy with for a long time, but would be willing to upgrade components at a later date. Basically I want a good frame.

Also, does anyone know what warranty Diamondback offer on their frames? I know Forme offer a limited lifetime warranty which is reassuring.

As an aside, should I consider a 29er? In the shop I was told I would miss the maneuverability of the 26" (I live near Glasgow and will do a lot of riding in the Campsies) but I just wanted to check.

 

[King Boonen]

Hi,

Scratch this, I've just discovered the website http://www.paulscycles.co.uk

While I would like to support my LBS, this really is a no-brainer, discounts of £200 (older models but still great prices). I may post questions after I've decided what I want from there.

 

[King Boonen]

Right, a couple of questions based on recent research.

I've looked on many websites and done a fair bit of reading. I know any bike in my price range is going to be a compromise on components Vs. frame and the likelihood is I'm going to want to upgrade the components no matter what the stock parts are. With this in mind it seems I'm best trying to get as good a frame as possible for the money and living with whatever parts are stock until I upgrade. I've never ridden a front suspension bike with disc brakes so even if the components are poor, they'll be better than what I'm used to.

In my price range are:

Cannondale SL5, SL4 and SL3 (2011 models)
Giant Revel 1 Disc LTD (2012)
Giant Talon 3 (2011)
GT Avalanche 1.0 Disc (2010)
Scott Aspect 35 (2010)
Specialized Rockhopper (2012)

I'm guessing that the frame in a range is the same, just a different paint job. So getting, for instance, the cannondale SL5 will give me the same base frame as the SL1. Is this correct?

If so, what bike would you go for?

 

[dsut4392]

Right, a couple of questions based on recent research.

I've looked on many websites and done a fair bit of reading. I know any bike in my price range is going to be a compromise on components Vs. frame and the likelihood is I'm going to want to upgrade the components no matter what the stock parts are. With this in mind it seems I'm best trying to get as good a frame as possible for the money and living with whatever parts are stock until I upgrade. I've never ridden a front suspension bike with disc brakes so even if the components are poor, they'll be better than what I'm used to.

In my price range are:

Cannondale SL5, SL4 and SL3 (2011 models)
Giant Revel 1 Disc LTD (2012)
Giant Talon 3 (2011)
GT Avalanche 1.0 Disc (2010)
Scott Aspect 35 (2010)
Specialized Rockhopper (2012)

I'm guessing that the frame in a range is the same, just a different paint job. So getting, for instance, the cannondale SL5 will give me the same base frame as the SL1. Is this correct?

If so, what bike would you go for?

Don't mean to be dismissive, but links to the specs for each of the bikes would help. Apart from the bike store owners on here who may stock one of those brands (and may or may not have a vested interest in promoting it), most of the posters with experience/knowledge will tend to know more about the higher-end stuff than entry level models. Each of those brands (perhaps excepting Cannondale?) manufacture the full range from entry level lump-of-lead bikes to excellent quality top end race machines.

As for the frame being the same across the range, that is often the case but depends on the model and brand. E.g. the alloy used and tube shaping can vary. I also don't personally believe the saying "buy the best frame you can afford" really applies to a first MTB. Quite likely what you want in a bike will evolve as you gain more experience; even if you decide you prefer hard-tail bikes you may veer towards race or trail handling characteristics, sturdiness etc.

Good luck in your search

 

[King Boonen]

Don't mean to be dismissive, but links to the specs for each of the bikes would help. Apart from the bike store owners on here who may stock one of those brands (and may or may not have a vested interest in promoting it), most of the posters with experience/knowledge will tend to know more about the higher-end stuff than entry level models. Each of those brands (perhaps excepting Cannondale?) manufacture the full range from entry level lump-of-lead bikes to excellent quality top end race machines.

As for the frame being the same across the range, that is often the case but depends on the model and brand. E.g. the alloy used and tube shaping can vary. I also don't personally believe the saying "buy the best frame you can afford" really applies to a first MTB. Quite likely what you want in a bike will evolve as you gain more experience; even if you decide you prefer hard-tail bikes you may veer towards race or trail handling characteristics, sturdiness etc.

Good luck in your search

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, sorry for not putting the links, I guess because I was looking at them I was familiar with the bikes and shouldn't have assumed others would be!

Just been to a local shop and they advised to stay away from Cannondale (overpriced for what you get, especially in my range) and to focus on Specialized and Giant (I'll throw the Forme Sterndale back in the mix) and make sure of hydraulic brakes.

So, links to the bikes I am considering from above:


Giant Revel 1 Disc LTD (2012)
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s2p4505/GIANT-REVEL-1-DISC-LTD-2012

Giant Talon 3 (2011)
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s2p3479/GIANT-TALON-3-2011

Scott Aspect 35 (2010)
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s2p3025/SCOTT-ASPECT-35-2010

Specialized Rockhopper (2012)
http://www.cyclesurgery.com/special...l/bikes-components-bikewear/fcp-product/40932

Forme Sterndale 1.0 (2013)
http://www.formebikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/sterndale1.php

I'm open to any other ideas, and I do recognise that I may end up wanting something different in a bike as I progress, but I'd still like a bike I could keep as a second bike even if I ended up with something much better a few years down the line.

 

[hiero2]

Your question is a perennial one - it's just the components change.

I think you should consider the answer to a couple of questions. Which bike makes you feel best today? HOW MUCH different is your 2nd choice?

Now, ask yourself which you would rather have 2 years from now: the "look" that gives you pleasure, or the component selection that works a little better.

And, go online and try to find COMPLAINTS about your component possibilities and brand names. I find that using the complaints gives me a good picture of the "worst possible" outcome - and thus a much more accurate picture of the quality.

I do recall hearing some stories somewhere that inexpensive sprung forks, and inexpensive disc brakes, were worse than rigid forks and cantis. I have no idea where that lies in a scale of accuracy or applicability.

Last comment - if you buy from an LBS, you can ask them questions. Can you do that with your online source? Part of what you are buying when you buy local is the relationship with the LBS (i.e. their time and expertise). Sometimes that is worth a little more money. Sometimes you can get some of the same with an online source.

 

[avanti]

I bought a Trek MTB for around $600 hoping it would work in loose desert sand (it did not). As I do not ride bumpy, rocky, steep trails I sold the Trek and bought a Canondale Quick flat bar bike (non-suspendion fork). The Quick works great for me as a bike for use on compacted gravel trails, commuting, and general use.

The Quick is much lighter than my MTB so it helps when transporting in my car. Also I use 28 mm wide tires but its frame will accomodate wider.

The Quick is not my only bike as I have road, track and CX bikes (a CX bike might also fit your needs).

 

[King Boonen]

I bought a Trek MTB for around $600 hoping it would work in loose desert sand (it did not). As I do not ride bumpy, rocky, steep trails I sold the Trek and bought a Canondale Quick flat bar bike (non-suspendion fork). The Quick works great for me as a bike for use on compacted gravel trails, commuting, and general use.

The Quick is much lighter than my MTB so it helps when transporting in my car. Also I use 28 mm wide tires but its frame will accomodate wider.

The Quick is not my only bike as I have road, track and CX bikes (a CX bike might also fit your needs).

I'll be on either wet or dry muddy trails so I feel I need some sort of suspension. I'll have a look at the quick though.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'll be on either wet or dry muddy trails so I feel I need some sort of suspension. I'll have a look at the quick though.

If it feels okay when riding, I'd get the one that's a little older. Bikes just don't change that much and there should be some kind of discount for the "old" model.

Here's the deal. Buy a helmet and maybe some shorts you are comfortable wearing and enjoy the bike as-is. If you like it, great! Get another bike. You will quickly end up sinking quite a bit of money into keeping that one rolling if you use it frequently.

If it isn't a great time, then you've got a decent bike when the mood strikes.

Best of luck.

 

[krebs303]

I would go for the Scott. shimano deore group and shimano discs should make for a solid performer.

 

[ultimobici]

Hi,

Scratch this, I've just discovered the website http://www.paulscycles.co.uk

While I would like to support my LBS, this really is a no-brainer, discounts of £200 (older models but still great prices). I may post questions after I've decided what I want from there.

Bear in mind you'll have to set up the bike yourself or pay someone to do it. With many brands your warranty depends on it being done by a qualified mechanic. So immediately you'll be out of pocket £35 to £50. You won't have a free first service which is to ensure everything is bedded in properly. Your gears will go out of adjustment due to the cables settling in with use, your machine built wheels will need retensioning, all that costs money. Another £35 plus gone. 6 months down the line you may have need of that warranty, or perhaps 4 years on the frame needs warrantying. Your warranty under UK law is with the retailer, not the manufacturer. Norfolk is a long way to go to try to sort that.......

Judging by your questions here, you probably aren't that au fait with cycle mechanics so will be paying for all that "extra" stuff. So your £200 saving will evaporate very quickly.

Plus every time you need something local, your LBS will not remember you as the guy who bought a bike from them, so any free perks such as extra tune ups for free or flexibility on warranty items won't be forthcoming.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Judging by your questions here, you probably aren't that au fait with cycle mechanics so will be paying for all that "extra" stuff. So your £200 saving will evaporate very quickly.

Plus every time you need something local, your LBS will not remember you as the guy who bought a bike from them, so any free perks such as extra tune ups for free or flexibility on warranty items won't be forthcoming.

+1. You need the LBS now more than any other time.

 

[purcell]

Within a certain range, the only really important thing (provided the frame fits you) is the fork.

It is the most expensive part of the bike, and matters more than anything else, if you are going to take the bike off road.

Pick your price range and pick the bike in that range that has the best, most rugged fork you can get.

Other components need replacing more than on a road bike and they are generally cheaper than road components.

Pick the best fork.

 

[King Boonen]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like LBS it is then. So, with that in mind I have three choices. Hellfrauds and the Voodoo Hoodoo
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...&productId=786865&categoryId=165499&langId=-1

easily the best fork but no LBS benefits really except easier warranty cover (could possibly stretch to the cheapest Boardman as long as it's under 600). From a real LBS, Forme Sterndale 1.0

http://www.formebikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/sterndale1.php

or Diamondback response.

http://www.diamondback.co.uk/MTB/ProductType/ProductRange/Product/Default.aspx?pc=1&pt=10&pg=8998

Both same fork, sterndale better frame warranty but diamondback better components.

If I join the Glasgow mountain bike club I get 50% off labour at a slightly less local bike shop so hellfrauds maybe not completely out the window.

What do you think?

What do you think? I'll be doing trail riding which is making me lean towards the Hoodoo, I do like the look of the sterndale though.

 

[avanti]

Why mess around with off-name bikes/brands.
There are plenty of name bikes in your price range that you could buy from a LBS.
For example Trek has several bikes that might suit you. http://www.cyclesuk.com/category/Bi...ail_Mountain_Bikes,i.html?sortBy=FeaturedDesc
Also check out Giant and Cannondale.
If you are not that familier with MTBs go with a reliable lower cost bike, learn what you like and dislike about it, then trade up for a better bike.

[As I said earlier I had a Trek MTB and had no complaints or problems with it other than it did nowt work in 6" deep soft dry fine sand - I lived in the California desert.]

One other think to think about - rim brakes are easy to adjust and maintain. Bottom end disk brakes are more complex and replacing rotors is costly.

 

[avanti]

Why buy an off brand bike with poor or no sevice when you can buy a Trek such as this one from a LBS http://www.trekbikes.com/uk/en/bikes/mountain/cross_country/4_series/4300_disc/#
I'm sure there are other competing bikes from the likes of Giant and Cannondale in your price range.

As you gain experience with an entry level bike and learn what is best for you then upgrade to a better bike (new or used).

 

[purcell]

It is a bit of a stretch to call a VooDoo an " off brand " bike

Well known in the market. Originally designed by Joe Murray of Kona fame.

 

[Boeing]

factor in shipping, and the cost to assemble. even if you are somewhat inclined you will have to have a shop bleed the brakes. then it full pop repair costs and back of the line. wait a week for your bike in shop...

shopping for bikes on line is so overrated and under delivered.



stop assuming LBS are ripping you off. build a relationship with one and have them get you what you need. buy a bike from LBS and repair, tubes etc are far less and usually the will insensitive with additional discounts on clothes shoes and gear to make you day in the saddle worth it. all of which is well ver the 200 buck you allegedly save. think it through

and the cranks and wheels on both models you posted are boat anchors.

 

[dsut4392]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like LBS it is then. So, with that in mind I have three choices. Hellfrauds and the Voodoo Hoodoo
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...&productId=786865&categoryId=165499&langId=-1

easily the best fork but no LBS benefits really except easier warranty cover (could possibly stretch to the cheapest Boardman as long as it's under 600). From a real LBS, Forme Sterndale 1.0

http://www.formebikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/sterndale1.php

or Diamondback response.

http://www.diamondback.co.uk/MTB/ProductType/ProductRange/Product/Default.aspx?pc=1&pt=10&pg=8998

Both same fork, sterndale better frame warranty but diamondback better components.

If I join the Glasgow mountain bike club I get 50% off labour at a slightly less local bike shop so hellfrauds maybe not completely out the window.

What do you think?

What do you think? I'll be doing trail riding which is making me lean towards the Hoodoo, I do like the look of the sterndale though.

Good old Hellfrauds - some are better than others, and have half decent mechanics. Don't know how yours in Glasgow compares. They should be pretty good with warranty (less headache for spotty teenage sales assistant to just replace something than work out how to get it fixed ).

Agree that a quality fork will make a big difference, as well as decent (hydraulic) brakes. Geometry of the bike is also critical (in this regard the VooDoos have a good pedigree).

If you're mechanically minded, I wouldn't necessarily say buying from LBS rather than mail order is critical. If you can pull something apart and put it back together again correctly, you'll work it out eventually. Bike wrenching isn't rocket science, and there aren't that many specialised tools you will need.

You may find it well worth your while to head down to your local library and do some reading on mountain biking skills, and on getting your bike set up properly (to help you choose the right size). Brian Lopes' book is the far and away the best I have read on skills and has some decent if fairly brief info on how to choose the right bike as well.

 

[King Boonen]

factor in shipping, and the cost to assemble. even if you are somewhat inclined you will have to have a shop bleed the brakes. then it full pop repair costs and back of the line. wait a week for your bike in shop...

shopping for bikes on line is so overrated and under delivered.



stop assuming LBS are ripping you off. build a relationship with one and have them get you what you need. buy a bike from LBS and repair, tubes etc are far less and usually the will insensitive with additional discounts on clothes shoes and gear to make you day in the saddle worth it. all of which is well ver the 200 buck you allegedly save. think it through

and the cranks and wheels on both models you posted are boat anchors.

At no point have I said I think I'm getting ripped off, I just know mail order from large suppliers will be cheaper (economy of scale and all that).

Also, almost everyone posts assembled bikes these days, but as a general point I have rebuilt two classic cars (GT6 and a Spitfire) and my day job involves tinkering around with things that are much more complicated than a bike. While I have little experience of mountain bikes I'm pretty sure, after watching a few videos on youtube, that I could build one myself with the right tools no problem. Bleeding brakes would not be an issue and being able to do this myself, as well as indexing gears, replacing cassettes, chains, cables etc. is something I see as required for owning a bike. In fact, the only thing that I would need a shop to do would be to fit a headset as I'm unlikely to fork out for the tools required.

The part in bold is also less than useless considering those models were chosen as they are what I can afford from my LBS. you're basically telling me a) not to go via online ordering and b) not to buy any offering from my LBS. So basically, don't by a bike.

 

[King Boonen]

Good old Hellfrauds - some are better than others, and have half decent mechanics. Don't know how yours in Glasgow compares. They should be pretty good with warranty (less headache for spotty teenage sales assistant to just replace something than work out how to get it fixed ).

Agree that a quality fork will make a big difference, as well as decent (hydraulic) brakes. Geometry of the bike is also critical (in this regard the VooDoos have a good pedigree).

If you're mechanically minded, I wouldn't necessarily say buying from LBS rather than mail order is critical. If you can pull something apart and put it back together again correctly, you'll work it out eventually. Bike wrenching isn't rocket science, and there aren't that many specialised tools you will need.

You may find it well worth your while to head down to your local library and do some reading on mountain biking skills, and on getting your bike set up properly (to help you choose the right size). Brian Lopes' book is the far and away the best I have read on skills and has some decent if fairly brief info on how to choose the right bike as well.

Thanks, very helpful post. I'm certainly not worried about maintenance, I'm actually looking forward to it as much as riding the bike (well almost).

In the end, after advice from friends and riding a Malt 3, I went for this:

http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/bikes/mountain-bikes/merlin-bikes/merlin-malt-2-bike.html

just better than bottom of the range rockshox but better than suntour (and ripe for an upgrade should I need it at a later date). A very well rated frame which would be ripe for upgrades and a full deore groupset for £550 (including shipping and pedals). The frame will suit me well, I sit between a large and a medium and on discussion with them they said the 19" feels a bit smaller than other companies 19" frames so should suit me perfectly.

I have a friend who has ridden for a long time I will be going out with, and other friends who are seasoned riders (6 bike garage at the time of posting, he may be adding the same bike I just ordered in the next couple of days...) who I can learn from but I'll search out that good book and have a read. Looking forward to it already.

 

[King Boonen]

Bike being built today. I'll be picking it up next friday along with some Saint pedals and then giving it a shake-down ride over the weekend. Will post pics when I have it, very excited!