purcell said:
Just done a quick search and think I might give this a try. Funnily enough I found a mirror thread to this one where someone was asking how to make homebrew chainsaw oil!
Just done a quick search and think I might give this a try. Funnily enough I found a mirror thread to this one where someone was asking how to make homebrew chainsaw oil!
- Jul 10, 2010
- 2,906
- 1
- 0
ElChingon said:I can only sit here and laugh. I've been waxing for years now and the smoothness, quietness (aka stealthness), cleanness of it all. If you haven't tried it then you don't know how good it is (yet, you can still try it). Yes, on the road and not off-road (so we're clear), and yes for on rain rides. Keep debating it, I need to laugh some more
If only we had a thumbs up icon for inside the post, but +1 is the best I can do!
I can't even figure out how some of these guys get so few miles between wax jobs. Unless, they are applying the wax on a dirty chain. Which is the only reason I avoid using the wax bath to also clean the chain - it decreases the longevity of the wax application, and the chain. Meh, over the years I'd gotten used to ppl not listening, but I thought, "geez, now we have evidence!" - and I guess I was wrong. Folks will do what folks will do. I'm goin' back to my cave. I'll poke my head out when I hear ya laughin' El.
Cheers!
This "miracle Lube" is being promoted over on V-Salon
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f3/nfs-chainlube-wait-over-29984.html
Supposedly cleans the chain at the same as lubes it. Anyone in the Petro business that might have a clue what on earth they are using in this stuff??
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f3/nfs-chainlube-wait-over-29984.html
Supposedly cleans the chain at the same as lubes it. Anyone in the Petro business that might have a clue what on earth they are using in this stuff??
Almost every vendor of chain lube under the sun offers a cleaner/lube combination, not the least of which is WD-40.
Dupont's "Teflon Chain Saver" is a PTFE (Teflon solids) lube in a wax carrier. It does a great job of lubing the chain while staying reasonable clean. The idea is that the liquid wax carries the Teflon into the tight tolerances of the chain where it becomes embedded in the metal pores. This is superb lubrication. In wet weather some can wash off so there are compromises. The Chainsaw bar oil is a very good lube for tough conditions. Almost any other type lube, store bought or home made, will do fine. But to clean your chain, just liberally spray it with WD-40 then lube over it. These hip "magic formula" chain lubes you see pop up here and there are mostly to make a quick dollar.
Dupont's "Teflon Chain Saver" is a PTFE (Teflon solids) lube in a wax carrier. It does a great job of lubing the chain while staying reasonable clean. The idea is that the liquid wax carries the Teflon into the tight tolerances of the chain where it becomes embedded in the metal pores. This is superb lubrication. In wet weather some can wash off so there are compromises. The Chainsaw bar oil is a very good lube for tough conditions. Almost any other type lube, store bought or home made, will do fine. But to clean your chain, just liberally spray it with WD-40 then lube over it. These hip "magic formula" chain lubes you see pop up here and there are mostly to make a quick dollar.
purcell said:
Howdy Gents, I can help answer some questions. NFS has no Teflon in it and is a all petroleum product formulated to perform very well in dirty conditions. Getting it right had alot to do with my own racing experience + alot of testing with riders who log large miles. It is not a "miracle lube" and it does not "clean your chain" as you ride. It does it's job under challenging conditions. Some of the comments are from riders who do not mince words http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f3/nfs-chainlube-wait-over-29984.html#post454342
All I can say is "so far so good" we are getting very good reports from good old road riders under ordinary conditions and from knuckleheads in foreign countries who think that riding for 4 hrs. in sticky mud is fun. I'm still waiting to hear from someone near the Arctic Circle who says that they will be shocked if the lube flows at -40F
- Jul 18, 2010
- 1,278
- 26
- 10,530
I've poked at this for several weeks. While the hot glue gun idea didn't prove workable, I did figure a way to submerge the chain in a bath of molten paraffin without removing it from the bike.
Melt the wax in a small cup. Shift the chain to the small-small and position the bike vertically. This leaves the chain in the narrowest loop possible (around the lower jockey wheel), and oriented basically vertically. Then dip the loop of chain (and the back half of the jockey wheel) into the molten paraffin and turn the crank.
I heated the wax in a metal cup placed in water in a double-boiler/bain-marie. A water temp of ~65°C/150°F (tested with a digital thermometer I already had) was pretty ideal to slow-melt the wax.
I knew the wax would cool quickly once it began transferring its heat to the chain so I carried the double-boiler to the bike so I periodically could re-warm it. It appeared to work pretty well. I found there is less wax build-up on the chain's plates if you turn the crank slowly, presumably because the chain is heating to near the paraffin's melting temperature, so it melts and runs off rather than sticking. But that also means the chain is sucking heat out of the paraffin all the faster.
If what's in the cup is still molten and clear, and if there's little-to-none visibly sticking to the chain, I take it for a sign the wax is plenty fluid enough to penetrate to where it's needed. As the paraffin cooled, the chain's plates showed wax build-up before there was any sign that what was in the cup was too cool and needed another dip in the hot water.
The black slag in the cup is the result of me being to impatient/lazy [pick one] to give the chain a proper cleaning before this experiment.
It looks somewhat a mess but most of that excess will fall off in the first kilometer.
Frankly, I stopped using paraffin before chains got so fussy about removal/re-installation, just because the bottled stuff took less foresight to use and is so convenient. But nothing I since have found seemed as good for the chain. This method still isn't as convenient as the bottled stuff but it doesn't require you remove the chain.
On the plus side, I spent less than 5€ on 450g of paraffin and a tub of petroleum jelly. I conservatively estimate I have enough of both for at least 100 chain baths, so it should hold me a couple of years.
Melt the wax in a small cup. Shift the chain to the small-small and position the bike vertically. This leaves the chain in the narrowest loop possible (around the lower jockey wheel), and oriented basically vertically. Then dip the loop of chain (and the back half of the jockey wheel) into the molten paraffin and turn the crank.
I heated the wax in a metal cup placed in water in a double-boiler/bain-marie. A water temp of ~65°C/150°F (tested with a digital thermometer I already had) was pretty ideal to slow-melt the wax.
I knew the wax would cool quickly once it began transferring its heat to the chain so I carried the double-boiler to the bike so I periodically could re-warm it. It appeared to work pretty well. I found there is less wax build-up on the chain's plates if you turn the crank slowly, presumably because the chain is heating to near the paraffin's melting temperature, so it melts and runs off rather than sticking. But that also means the chain is sucking heat out of the paraffin all the faster.
If what's in the cup is still molten and clear, and if there's little-to-none visibly sticking to the chain, I take it for a sign the wax is plenty fluid enough to penetrate to where it's needed. As the paraffin cooled, the chain's plates showed wax build-up before there was any sign that what was in the cup was too cool and needed another dip in the hot water.
The black slag in the cup is the result of me being to impatient/lazy [pick one] to give the chain a proper cleaning before this experiment.
It looks somewhat a mess but most of that excess will fall off in the first kilometer.
Frankly, I stopped using paraffin before chains got so fussy about removal/re-installation, just because the bottled stuff took less foresight to use and is so convenient. But nothing I since have found seemed as good for the chain. This method still isn't as convenient as the bottled stuff but it doesn't require you remove the chain.
On the plus side, I spent less than 5€ on 450g of paraffin and a tub of petroleum jelly. I conservatively estimate I have enough of both for at least 100 chain baths, so it should hold me a couple of years.
- Jul 18, 2010
- 1,278
- 26
- 10,530
The only component apart the chain I had with wax build-up on it was what you see in the snap, the end bit of the derailleur cage -- which was easily chipped off using my fingernails -- and a tiny bit on the jockey wheel.
- Jul 18, 2010
- 1,278
- 26
- 10,530
The last time waxed my chains, my bikes had downtube shifters. It had been so long, I had forgotten how good a chain lube paraffin is. Like really good. I don't run high-end chains any more and it makes even my economy chains run as silent as death and smooth as a gravy sandwich. When fresh-waxed, it is so smooth and quiet, you could mistake it for a belt drive ...except belt drives aren't derailleur-compatible.
At first I thought I was making too much of the difference, so I went back to bottled lube. I had pieces of bottles of five different commercial lubes about, plus I brewed up some homemade OMS & synthetic motor oil. I alternated a week's use of bottled lube (the flavour of the week), followed by a week of paraffin, with a thorough cleaning in between.
I wasn't imagining things. The paraffin clearly makes the chain run smoother and quieter than all the alternatives I tried.
It obviously isn't so handy as a squirt bottle full of liquid lube. Plus it is more logistically involved and requires advance preparation. But the major problem I encountered is it can be temperature-sensitive.
I have discovered that just because a chain is dunked in molten paraffin does not guarantee the wax will penetrate to where it is most needed. If the paraffin isn't hot enough, or if the chain is too cool, the molten paraffin cools to the plastic state on contact with the metal, before it has reached the deep recesses. If the chain emerges from the paraffin bath resembling a glaced pastry, that is an indication the wax lost too much heat on contact with the metal, and might well have done the same internally. If the paraffin had stayed good and hot, if it hadn't cooled to the plastic state, it still would appear transparent on the chain, much the same as if it were wet with water.
Bad enough it doesn't lubricate optimally, it also wastes paraffin. The translucent coating is well thicker than required just for lubrication, and the majority of it will slough off in two or three trips through the jockey wheels. This becomes a problem for me whenever the air temp is below about 21°C/70°F. Below about 16°C/60°F, the only solution I have found is to bring the bike in the house and let it warm before trying to wax it. You still can ride it with the glaced look, but you will shed chunks of wax as you go, and the lubrication effect in my admittedly limited experience isn't nearly as long-lasting.
This is not a factor using the traditional method -- remove the chain and dunk it in a pan of molten paraffin on the cooker -- because in short order the chain will assume the same temperature as the wax. Which means that even if the paraffin had cooled to the plastic state, it will liquefy again once the chain warms. Which guarantees optimal lubrication.
My pipe dream wax application device would be something like an miniature electric fondue pot, a small low-temperature self-heating container that would melt the wax and could be raised up over the loop of chain at the jockey wheels (see previous picture). Since it would replenish the heat the chain is removing from the paraffin, it would be a matter of just rotating the crank slowly enough to let the portion of the chain submerged in the molten paraffin warm sufficiently.
But in lieu of my bicycle chain fondue pot, I'm thinking my next chain will be one better suited to regular removal/replacing. And I'll go back to the traditional waxing method.
At least until the weather warms.
At first I thought I was making too much of the difference, so I went back to bottled lube. I had pieces of bottles of five different commercial lubes about, plus I brewed up some homemade OMS & synthetic motor oil. I alternated a week's use of bottled lube (the flavour of the week), followed by a week of paraffin, with a thorough cleaning in between.
I wasn't imagining things. The paraffin clearly makes the chain run smoother and quieter than all the alternatives I tried.
It obviously isn't so handy as a squirt bottle full of liquid lube. Plus it is more logistically involved and requires advance preparation. But the major problem I encountered is it can be temperature-sensitive.
I have discovered that just because a chain is dunked in molten paraffin does not guarantee the wax will penetrate to where it is most needed. If the paraffin isn't hot enough, or if the chain is too cool, the molten paraffin cools to the plastic state on contact with the metal, before it has reached the deep recesses. If the chain emerges from the paraffin bath resembling a glaced pastry, that is an indication the wax lost too much heat on contact with the metal, and might well have done the same internally. If the paraffin had stayed good and hot, if it hadn't cooled to the plastic state, it still would appear transparent on the chain, much the same as if it were wet with water.
Bad enough it doesn't lubricate optimally, it also wastes paraffin. The translucent coating is well thicker than required just for lubrication, and the majority of it will slough off in two or three trips through the jockey wheels. This becomes a problem for me whenever the air temp is below about 21°C/70°F. Below about 16°C/60°F, the only solution I have found is to bring the bike in the house and let it warm before trying to wax it. You still can ride it with the glaced look, but you will shed chunks of wax as you go, and the lubrication effect in my admittedly limited experience isn't nearly as long-lasting.
This is not a factor using the traditional method -- remove the chain and dunk it in a pan of molten paraffin on the cooker -- because in short order the chain will assume the same temperature as the wax. Which means that even if the paraffin had cooled to the plastic state, it will liquefy again once the chain warms. Which guarantees optimal lubrication.
My pipe dream wax application device would be something like an miniature electric fondue pot, a small low-temperature self-heating container that would melt the wax and could be raised up over the loop of chain at the jockey wheels (see previous picture). Since it would replenish the heat the chain is removing from the paraffin, it would be a matter of just rotating the crank slowly enough to let the portion of the chain submerged in the molten paraffin warm sufficiently.
But in lieu of my bicycle chain fondue pot, I'm thinking my next chain will be one better suited to regular removal/replacing. And I'll go back to the traditional waxing method.
At least until the weather warms.
- Feb 10, 2010
- 10,645
- 20
- 22,510
ElChingon said:
This is the only way I ever did it. I also put the chain, wrapped in foil, in the freezer right after a soaking to try and better trap the paraffin.
You can start with a not-new chain. The heat/wax carries the old lube out. Use a little jiggling to help the process. I re-used the wax many times over after the first soak.
I might have posted this earlier, I also mixed beeswax into the paraffin with good results. I found I got more hours of riding.
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use a double boiler.
Paraffin wax has a real, stove-top flash point. Most paraffin waxes have a flash point around 395°F. When it reaches its flash point it may not smoke or bubble, it will usually just explode, splattering flaming wax in all directions.
- Jul 18, 2010
- 1,278
- 26
- 10,530
Well I'm a borned-again chain waxer. But I haven't found a method that works as well as soaking it in a bath of molten wax.
My chain bain-marie
I get more than 500 km of riding per waxing, even in hostile weather. Under less apocalyptic conditions, easily good for 700+ km, which I consider exceptional. And each waxing takes about 5 grams of wax. So if I hadn't wasted so much paraffin wax with experimental application methods, my 450 grams would have been good for 90-ish applications. 700 km is about half a month's riding for me so 450 grams is three and a half years of chain lube.
It's not the swiftest method of application on earth, but it's made it more tolerable that I bought a second chain. When the one mounted on the bike needs refreshing, I clean it on the bike, then exchange it for the waiting cleaned and waxed chain. The fresh-washed chain comes in the house with me and I can apply the wax to it at my leisure. Like anything else, in time the application process streamlines itself.
The sprockets and derailleurs stay dramatically cleaner than with any other lube I ever have tried. No more chainring tattoo. No more greasy hands if I drop a chain.
And I tried with/without the petroleum jelly. Without is better. I should also give bee's wax a shot.
My chain bain-marie
I get more than 500 km of riding per waxing, even in hostile weather. Under less apocalyptic conditions, easily good for 700+ km, which I consider exceptional. And each waxing takes about 5 grams of wax. So if I hadn't wasted so much paraffin wax with experimental application methods, my 450 grams would have been good for 90-ish applications. 700 km is about half a month's riding for me so 450 grams is three and a half years of chain lube.
It's not the swiftest method of application on earth, but it's made it more tolerable that I bought a second chain. When the one mounted on the bike needs refreshing, I clean it on the bike, then exchange it for the waiting cleaned and waxed chain. The fresh-washed chain comes in the house with me and I can apply the wax to it at my leisure. Like anything else, in time the application process streamlines itself.
The sprockets and derailleurs stay dramatically cleaner than with any other lube I ever have tried. No more chainring tattoo. No more greasy hands if I drop a chain.
And I tried with/without the petroleum jelly. Without is better. I should also give bee's wax a shot.
StyrbjornSterki said:
Wow, that's amazing. Once the factory lube has given in and I'm relying on bottle lube (progold), I'd say 200-300km is about it before I reapply (based on chain noise). And outside of using wet lubes, the chain never seems to be as quiet as it is when new on the factory lube.
I'm still a little worried about trying this indoors.
- Jun 30, 2012
- 1,306
- 4
- 10,485
purcell said:
I tried some of that a while back. I didn't like the way that "strings" of it would fling off. Maybe I was using too much, but it always made a mess.
- Jun 30, 2012
- 1,306
- 4
- 10,485
DirtyWorks said:
You can buy little slow cookers at Amazon/Costco/Walmart. Cheap enough to put one in the workshop, and no flashpoint risk. Amazon currently has a small crockpot for $15.
- Jul 23, 2009
- 5,412
- 19
- 17,510
winkybiker said:
Once upon a time, chain wax came in a little tin..roll up chain, put on top..tin in pan of water, heat water, wax melts..settles to bottom..grab chain, wet, put on newspaper to cool..install.
- Mar 11, 2009
- 10,526
- 3,308
- 28,180
Some 2 decades ago a friend who has a degree in chemistry and I tried to concoct some sort of paraffin wax lube, thinking it would give us some secret weapon. IIRC one ingredient was Swix XC ski wax of some sort. I remember thinking on the first ride everything seemed superior (which was probably just a cleaned chain!), in the end though it mostly turned out into be a pain in the rear mess. But I have to admit it was fun and makes for a good memory...and story.
- Jul 18, 2010
- 1,278
- 26
- 10,530
That's what I used to use. Part of what put me off it was that no chain ever is perfectly cleaned (at least not of my doing), so that large a vat of wax is begging to get contaminated with lingering chain grime remains before it is used up. Don't know that that affected its lubriciousness but the off-colour wax just didn't suit my sensibilities. Now I only ever "expose" a small amount (~25g) to the chain at a time, so if I'm concerned it might be becoming too contaminated for its own good, there's only ever that small amount to throw out.Bustedknuckle said:
On a whim, I once rinsed an already cleaned chain in the boiling water in the "mother pot" before turning the cooker down to simmer, before applying the wax. Paraffin wax is insoluble in cold water, but boiling water is above its melting temp. To my delight, a fair amount of grunge flushed out and remained suspended in the water, leaving the chain cleaner than it had been since the factory lubed it. So now I make the boiling rinse a standard practice. There's very little contamination left in the wax, and I think starting with so clean a chain is key to my applications lasting so long.
So I assume it's best to do this on a brand new chain (lack of dirt?). Or do you strip it in solvents first?
I watched "How's it made" last night and the program showed a Campagnolo road chain being made. During the process the inner plates are coated with a nickel-Teflon coating then towards the end the chain is lubricated with hot oil.
Found it on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8j5-dC6_x8
Found it on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8j5-dC6_x8
- Jul 18, 2010
- 1,278
- 26
- 10,530
I think the wax needs nothing interfering with it bonding to the metal, so the chain needs to be clean, bare metal. New chains come lubed so I reckon stripping is in order. When I switched back to wax, I cleaned it conventionally, then sprayed it with brake cleaner, then rinsed it in plain water.richwagmn said:
I use a yaban chain on my road bikes. Its self lubricating. I don't use any lube at all. It works fantastic and my cassette is always spotless. If my bike gets dirty In the rain I clean with baby wipes.
ray j willings said:
This really surprises me. It is also important to have some lubricant between the chain rollers and the drive chain teeth to minimize friction and wear.
However the Yaban web site says this about their SLA (Superior Lubricating Aid) chains: "SLA series no need to grease heavily, slightly greased after cycling will be fine."
avanti said:
Hi Avanti. Yes it works fine. No issues with gear changing or wear. I do run a 53./ 39 but always ride /climb on the 53 [ 11 x 26 cassette] I was using a tiny bit of ceramic lube but it seems to make no odds without. I have ridden a few friends bikes and can honestly say that I don't notice any real difference.
I would say though that I have only done this using the Yaban chains and I do seem to change gears less than my mates.
- Aug 11, 2010
- 616
- 138
- 10,180
BroDeal said:
Yep, this is what I do. I usually mix up a big batch one or twice a year when visiting my folks. My dad has a nice workshop (I don't have one...yet) and has nice beakers for mixing. I fill up a few empty iced tea jugs and cart 'em home with me, then fill empty contact solution bottles from the big jugs. The tip on the contact bottles works well.
I run all sorts of chains - Campagnolo on two road bikes, KMC on another, KMC gold chain on my CX bike, and I think a KMC on my commuter. I lube my chains frequently.
A few rotations on a rag, light relubing, let it sit and flash off. A light wipe down, good to go. My nice road bikes get babied, my commuter not as much, but still take care of the chain and cassette and rings.
A few minutes of upkeep goes a long way.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Tour de France Tour de France 2025 Stage 12: Auch - Hautacam (180.6k)- Started by Krzysztof_O
- Replies: 1K
-
Tour de France Tour de France 2025 Stage 10: Ennezat – Le Mont-Dore (165.3k)- Started by Tricycle Rider
- Replies: 929
-
Tour de France Tour de France 2025 Stage 13: Loudenvielle – Peyragudes (10.9k, ITT)
- Started by Tricycle Rider
- Replies: 96
-
-
Tour de France Stage 6: Bayeux – Vire-Normandie (201.5k)- Started by YavorD
- Replies: 779
-
Tour de France Tour de France 2025, Stage 5: Caen – Caen (33.0k, ITT)
- Started by Tricycle Rider
- Replies: 723
-
Tour de France Tour de France 2025 Stage 7: Saint-Malo – Mûr-de-Bretagne (197.0k)
- Started by Tricycle Rider
- Replies: 538
Latest posts
-
-
Florian Lipowitz is the new German GC hope discussion thread- Latest: Unterlenkerfahrend
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram