How come Brajkovic is so overrated here?

Mar 31, 2010
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He's a pro now for 5 years(turns 27 this year!) and has never done anything good past 1 week. The guy recuperates like Lovkvist and LL Sanchez, another 2 major overrated gt riders.

This Tour will be no exception past 1 week/10 days Brajkovic will be burned up.
 
How come you underrate Brajkovic? Last year's Giro was pretty decent, he certainly wasn't burned in the third week. Give the guy a chance to show his Dauphine 2010 level in a Grand Tour with his Giro 2009 recuperation.
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
He's a pro now for 5 years(turns 27 this year!) and has never done anything good past 1 week. The guy recuperates like Lovkvist and LL Sanchez, another 2 major overrated gt riders.

This Tour will be no exception past 1 week/10 days Brajkovic will be burned up.

You are probably right about the tour. I dont see him doing anything there. Howver in cycling i dont see 27 as being old or even neccesarily being near your peak. Riders can still improve drastically. Many cyclists dont become great champions until they get into their 30's. A criterium de dauphine at 26 including same time to contador on the alp de huez stage is impressive.

Bare in mind that Richie Porte is 1 year and 1 month younger than Brajkovic and all i keep hearing is that he is the next big thing and will accomplish so much because he won one tt and wore the maglia rosa after a breakaway stage.

I see Brajkovic as accomplishing far more in his career than Porte.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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The Hitch said:
You are probably right about the tour. I dont see him doing anything there. Howver in cycling i dont see 27 as being old or even neccesarily being near your peak. Riders can still improve drastically. Many cyclists dont become great champions until they get into their 30's.
I believe that most of those who peak late have been active after 1990. I did a count once finding that every Tour de France winner between WW2 and 1990 had shown very early promise as a GC rider. After 1990 you had people suddenly going from pack fodder to winning the Tour. Obviously I'm drifting into clinic territory, but my point is that I believe a 27 year old should be at or very near his physical peak and that we shouldn't be expecting improvements just from JB becoming older.
 
Cerberus said:
I believe that most of those who peak late have been active after 1990. I did a count once finding that every Tour de France winner between WW2 and 1990 had shown very early promise as a GC rider. After 1990 you had people suddenly going from pack fodder to winning the Tour. Obviously I'm drifting into clinic territory, but my point is that I believe a 27 year old should be at or very near his physical peak and that we shouldn't be expecting improvements just from JB becoming older.

Well i did think clinic material was a reason for 27 no longer being seen as a peak age. But even if thats the way it is done, it seems clear to me that these days, you are not really in your peak until you are your 30's.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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The Hitch said:
Well i did think clinic material was a reason for 27 no longer being seen as a peak age. But even if thats the way it is done, it seems clear to me that these days, you are not really in your peak until you are your 30's.

Ahh, yes, personally I never saw the late peaks as a consequence of doping in itself, but as a consequence of riders starting doing things like that late or starting doing new or better things. It's difficult to tell of cause because those things are done in secret. There was a 40 years old who finished on the podium around 1980 I think who obviously wasn't using EPo. Anyway, we should probably move this to the Clinic if there's anything left that we haven't said already.
 
Cerberus said:
Ahh, yes, personally I never saw the late peaks as a consequence of doping in itself, but as a consequence of riders starting doing things like that late or starting doing new or better things. It's difficult to tell of cause because those things are done in secret. There was a 40 years old who finished on the podium around 1980 I think who obviously wasn't using EPo. Anyway, we should probably move this to the Clinic if there's anything left that we haven't said already.

well one other factor could be that riders are these days more protected when young, and it is understood that they should slowly build up endurance. Before, young riders were thrown straight into the mix. I read before this years milan san remo that if ebh won, even though today we would see him as very young, many of the msr winners in the past have been far younger than him. If peter sagan were riding during the time of merckx, his team would probably already be taking him to the tour to hunt for stages. But i expect Liquigas not to give Sagan any Gt's for a few years, keep protecting him and try to make into a big gun once he reaches his late 20's.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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Brajkovic has had 3 grand tour appearances.

-In 2006 he was 30th in the Vuelta GC as a domestique. In the stage 20 ITT he finished 20th... a solid result in the 3rd week for a young rider in their first GT.
-He didn't finish the Vuelta in 2007.
-In 2009 he was 18th in the Giro GC as a domestique... and was strong enough at the end to finish 11th in the final TT... 1 place behind winner Dennis Menchov, and ahead of Basso, Di Luca, Pellizotti, Leipheimer and Armstrong.

So far... he's shown pretty solid recuperation in very few GT appearances. I'm not sure what would make you say he doesn't recuperate well... evidence actually points to the opposite.
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
He's a pro now for 5 years(turns 27 this year!) and has never done anything good past 1 week. The guy recuperates like Lovkvist and LL Sanchez, another 2 major overrated gt riders.

This Tour will be no exception past 1 week/10 days Brajkovic will be burned up.

Mabye they recuperates slower then others but they are still excellent cyclists. I think when we see back som years later we migth have an explantion why some manage too ride 3 weeks tours better then other (Read EPO). I think this three cyclist you mention is very clean and many others aren't, even if I think cycling are on rigth way.
 
The whole thing about peaking at a certain age is kinda bunk. Hinault was 32 when he retired, and he was still at the peak of his physical powers, likely could've won 2 or 3 more GTs had he not retired so early. It's difficult to tell after 1990 because riders who were still peaking were getting overshadowed because of their unwillingness to use EPO.

Look at LeMond, for example. He has stated on numerous occasions that he was producing the best numbers of his life physically when he was 32-33 years old, but couldn't keep up because of the new speed of the peloton.

Hampsten was still extremely competitive during the EPO era. In fact, from his Giro win in 1988 through 1990 he was at his worst. From 1991-1993, finishing 8th, 4th, and 8th in the Tour. Hampsten has also stated that in 1994-1996 he should've been at the peak of his abilities because he was physically stronger than he was before, but he could not adapt to the new speeds of the peloton on the climbs because of EPO.
 
as many folks have posted, Brajkovic (still) has the potential to develop into a brilliant rider, but unfortunately his team's DS has tuned him into a "handy" rider for a week-long races & a back-up for a GT team group...
sad indeed
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
He's a pro now for 5 years(turns 27 this year!) and has never done anything good past 1 week. The guy recuperates like Lovkvist and LL Sanchez, another 2 major overrated gt riders.

This Tour will be no exception past 1 week/10 days Brajkovic will be burned up.

How come he's so overrated here? Because he rides for Radio Shack. If he rode for Lampre or some other odd team with his results, no one would mention him--he'd get as much ink as Lovkvist, I think that's a great comparison. This site is very US centric. Not a problem, but it is what it is.

He seems a good rider. Not much more than that.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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janraaskalt said:
How come you underrate Brajkovic? Last year's Giro was pretty decent, he certainly wasn't burned in the third week. Give the guy a chance to show his Dauphine 2010 level in a Grand Tour with his Giro 2009 recuperation.

he certainly was. look how horrible he rode the last mountainstages.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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The Hitch said:
Well i did think clinic material was a reason for 27 no longer being seen as a peak age. But even if thats the way it is done, it seems clear to me that these days, you are not really in your peak until you are your 30's.

ok? Explain to me guys like gesink, kreuziger, nibali, uran, soler, mollema and more

recuperation isn't something you develop over time. it;'s something you either have or you don't have. look at uran only 22 in last years tour in the final week.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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kurtinsc said:
Brajkovic has had 3 grand tour appearances.

-In 2006 he was 30th in the Vuelta GC as a domestique. In the stage 20 ITT he finished 20th... a solid result in the 3rd week for a young rider in their first GT.
-He didn't finish the Vuelta in 2007.
-In 2009 he was 18th in the Giro GC as a domestique... and was strong enough at the end to finish 11th in the final TT... 1 place behind winner Dennis Menchov, and ahead of Basso, Di Luca, Pellizotti, Leipheimer and Armstrong.

So far... he's shown pretty solid recuperation in very few GT appearances. I'm not sure what would make you say he doesn't recuperate well... evidence actually points to the opposite.

wow he's an itt specialist for godsake and he finished 20th and 11th in final itt's that's not impressive or even good for that matter and look at the mountainstages in last years giro towards the end. brajkovic was totally done for.

show me prove that he has recuperation for 3 weeks.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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ingsve said:
You can't really evaluate someones GT capability if they haven't ridden in a protected role. Domestiques always waste energy protecting the leaders and riding hard in front.

what helper role?? lance's 12th place in the giro? if there was one team who hadn't wasted any energy at all it was radioshack at last years giro.
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
he certainly was. look how horrible he rode the last mountainstages.
Horrible? Sorry, I thought you wanted an factual discussion, but it seems you just don't like him. He got 26th to Blockhaus and 22nd to Vesuvio in the 3rd week. Both times near Popovych, both worked as domestique. That isn't even near a gruppetto. Besides, he was 11th in the closing TT.
 
May 24, 2010
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hfer07 said:
as many folks have posted, Brajkovic (still) has the potential to develop into a brilliant rider, but unfortunately his team's DS has tuned him into a "handy" rider for a week-long races & a back-up for a GT team group...
sad indeed

BTW he's 26, not 27. However, I agree. It's been due to the fact that Bruyneel has never had him high on his priority list. He was given one shot a few of years back, just as DeVolder was given a chance to be a GT/GC rider(because they had no other real candidates, or just as they tried to convince everyone that Geo Hincapie was their GC hope in France in 2006- he finished 32nd).
And at 22, he held the Leaders jersey, the Mtns. jersey, and the Combi jersey in the Vuelta Espana. He's won the Tour de Georgia, come second at the Giro di Lombardia, and 5th at the Tour de Suisse, FOUR yrs ago! And all of that while being severely pushed deep into the back seat, by the intentions of Bruyneel and LA.
Why do people think Tom Boonen left Postal? It was because he realized there ain't room for NO ONE ELSE in that town, let alone someone of Tommeke's stature. If he had stayed, he'd have had to ride as support for Geo Hincapie, to the bitter end, imagine that one, for a moment.
That's why some of us think Janez is underrated. If I were in his position, I would have left Bruyneel a long time ago. I wish him the best at the Tour, but it will be a very low rung that he will occupy. So, Good luck to him, for the remainder of the year. :cool:
 
Nov 17, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
he certainly was. look how horrible he rode the last mountainstages.

He finished the last time trial a couple of seconds off Menchov, 1 place behind the guy who won the race. This was the last stage of the race, and he finished right with the guy who won the stage 12 ITT (and ahead of Levi... who was 2nd in that ITT). Brajkovic was 4th in that ITT.

He was a domestique in the montains. He wasn't allowed to ride for himself... he rode for Lance and Levi. Even so he didn't do horrible. The comparisons to Lovkvist aren't fair.

He was 23rd on Vesuvius... Lovkvist was 45th. He was 27th on Blockhaus... Lovkvist was 77th.

Brajkovic has never gotten to ride for himself in a GT... so it's tough to say exactly how good he'd be if given the shot. But even riding as a helper he's shown the ability to recover well... as proven by his time trials at the end of grand tours. He has NOT faded like Lovkvist has in 3 week races. He's been strong at the end... but a strong helper.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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janraaskalt said:
Horrible? Sorry, I thought you wanted an factual discussion, but it seems you just don't like him. He got 26th to Blockhaus and 22nd to Vesuvio in the 3rd week. Both times near Popovych, both worked as domestique. That isn't even near a gruppetto. Besides, he was 11th in the closing TT.

22nd on vesuvio and 26th in blockhaus for a so called future gt winner is nothing good at all. and don't give me that domestique crap. when exactly in last years giro did radioshack force the tempo for lance??
 
Mar 31, 2010
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kurtinsc said:
He finished the last time trial a couple of seconds off Menchov, 1 place behind the guy who won the race. This was the last stage of the race, and he finished right with the guy who won the stage 12 ITT (and ahead of Levi... who was 2nd in that ITT). Brajkovic was 4th in that ITT.

He was a domestique in the montains. He wasn't allowed to ride for himself... he rode for Lance and Levi. Even so he didn't do horrible. The comparisons to Lovkvist aren't fair.

He was 23rd on Vesuvius... Lovkvist was 45th. He was 27th on Blockhaus... Lovkvist was 77th.

Brajkovic has never gotten to ride for himself in a GT... so it's tough to say exactly how good he'd be if given the shot. But even riding as a helper he's shown the ability to recover well... as proven by his time trials at the end of grand tours. He has NOT faded like Lovkvist has in 3 week races. He's been strong at the end... but a strong helper.


yeah menchov crashed during that itt :rolleyes: