I hate Astana/Disco, but I love Saxo/CSC...

[benpounder]

After all, everyone knows that Lance et al doped, whereas a team lead by Bjarne Riis would never dope.

 

[benpounder]

Posted just because I grow so tired of the hyperbole... I wonder if choir members realize how out of tune they sound to the congregation they are singing to?

 

[bianchigirl]

And your point is?

Personally, I think that until the culture changes significantly and whistleblowers are listened to and not vilified, until all support personnel who have links to doping are taken out of the sport it will never be clean - there are very few teams that stand up to scrutiny if you examine the team doctors and soigneurs and DSes.

That's why I'm a fan of the sport rather than any given team - I enjoyed Boonen's ride today but would be a hypocrite if I didn't have doubts about a team under Lefevre's direction. I've never seen Chavanel ride so well since he went there which on the one hand is great and on the other really makes me wonder...

For whatever reason, Armstrong is a lightning rod for doping allegations. But if you lift most of the rocks in the sport there's something not very savoury underneath. Just that the dots between the Hog (Bruyneel) and ONCE and Manolo Saiz (systematic doping) and Liberty/Astana (all those ONCE doctors Bruyneel likes to employ) and on to Puerto are really easy to connect.

 

[stefrees]

at least riis admitted to doping back when he was riding. doesnt make it right though, and i happen to dislike riis. just happen to dislike the bruyneel/armstrong way much more. how the hell did contador beat wiggins/martin etc over the distance in the paris nice prologue? it just DOESNT happen. cheats astana are, and i keep hoping i wake up to find theyve all been busted. most teams have suspicions though-as much i like colombia with cav etc, i sometimes have doubts over them-not necessarily cav (i hope not) but other perfromances. hope im wrong.

 

[ingsve]

how the hell did contador beat wiggins/martin etc over the distance in the paris nice prologue? it just DOESNT happen.

You can think what you want about Astana but that perticular argument is complete bull****.

 

[ElChingon]

Doping politics aside. Disco/Astana at races are relegated to the Team bus till its time to line up for the start, hence are not fan friendly. Just about all other teams hang out at the start expo area's and mingle with the fans for autographs/photo-ops and general chit-chat, making them much more fan favorable. That is my gripe with the Bruyneel managed teams. On the up swing I'd hang out at the start line up area and then get them over for a photo-op or chit-chat as Bruyneel has no control at the line up area.

Don't ever try to ride with them on a rest day, Bruyneel will stick the team car in between you and the team. Sure, you might say safety or one might injure a rider accidentally, I could buy that. Meanwhile, all other teams would let us ride with them

 

[benpounder]

Pozzato "The Belgian fans were not very polite out there, I got spat on by someone...."

Of course, American fans, and American cyclists are so much worse...

 

[benpounder]

"Flecha ruins my race first of all when he wasn't pulling and acting stupidly. Then he was able to attack, and in the end it turned out he wasn't even able to steer. If someone like that slips away there's not much you can do but to ride over him; I couldn't avoid him. The fact that we're finishing fourth and fifth boosts the morale, but personally I'm sick of it," Hoste said.

Even more reason to hate Lance!

 

[msjett]

"Flecha ruins my race first of all when he wasn't pulling and acting stupidly. Then he was able to attack, and in the end it turned out he wasn't even able to steer. If someone like that slips away there's not much you can do but to ride over him; I couldn't avoid him. The fact that we're finishing fourth and fifth boosts the morale, but personally I'm sick of it," Hoste said.

Even more reason to hate Lance!

I assume this post is either irony or sarcasm....I don't see what it has to do with Armstrong considering he wasn't in the race!

As for Hoste, it was a bit of bad luck that Flecha fell in front of him, and as far as I could see the only way Hoste would have won this race is if he had gone of the front, and Boonen wasn't about to let him go.

 

[bianchigirl]

Plenty of riders jhave been booed or got p*ssed off with other riders but I don't honestly see the relevance to your initial argument.

BTW, I would like to add that Astana are sponsored by one of the most repressive regimes in the world with a long catalogue of human rights abuses and that the perpetrators of those abuses are directly involved with the running of the team. But then Katusha's sponsorship doesn't stand up to much scrutiny either.

There's nothing particularly rational about why people like one rider or team and not another and I really wouldn't put it down solely to the doping issue as the above responses demonstrate.

 

[lyjf0411]

Truck Wreck

A gay man was driving his sports car around the corner, when an eighteen-wheeler pulled out of the shanghai escort and directly in front of his way. The sports car plows into the truck and totally demolishes the front end of the sports car. The gay WHOLESALE T SHIRTS jumps out of the car, comes tearing around the side of the truck where the truck driver is, and hollers, "You did that on purpose! CHEAP HANDBAGS just pulled right out in front of me!" The truck driver says, "Suck my shanghai escort." Waving his hands, "Don't try to sweet talk WHOLESALE JORDANS out of it!!! I'm really ****ing ****ED here!"

 

[mr. tibbs]

"Flecha ruins my race first of all when he wasn't pulling and acting stupidly. Then he was able to attack, and in the end it turned out he wasn't even able to steer. If someone like that slips away there's not much you can do but to ride over him; I couldn't avoid him. The fact that we're finishing fourth and fifth boosts the morale, but personally I'm sick of it," Hoste said.

Even more reason to hate Lance!

lol that's EXACTLY why I think that [insert dogmatic opinion about a controversial pro]!!!11!!one

 

[ingsve]

Personally, I rooted for Lance in the 99 tour but then I disliked him the following 6 years. Part of it was his arrogance but mostly it was because GC riding in the tour became ALOT less fun to watch with him around. And that's not just his fault. Johan Bruyneel shares just as much of the blaim for that.

That's why I don't like Astana either, because I think they will take the fun out of the GC in this tour as well. I would love to be proven wrong but I fear that I won't,

 

[St. Elia]

That's why I'm a fan of the sport rather than any given team - I enjoyed Boonen's ride today but would be a hypocrite if I didn't have doubts about a team under Lefevre's direction. I've never seen Chavanel ride so well since he went there which on the one hand is great and on the other really makes me wonder...

I agree with the rest of your post but... Chavanel rode well last year as well and was super aggressive in the tour. He sure is riding well now I'll give you that and if he didn't have bad luck yesterday I think he would have been right up there with the six other guys. I don't think he would have won though, boone being the team leader and all.

 

[coffeebean2]

Personally, I rooted for Lance in the 99 tour but then I disliked him the following 6 years. Part of it was his arrogance but mostly it was because GC riding in the tour became ALOT less fun to watch with him around. And that's not just his fault. Johan Bruyneel shares just as much of the blaim for that.

That's why I don't like Astana either, because I think they will take the fun out of the GC in this tour as well. I would love to be proven wrong but I fear that I won't,

If the AFLD have anything to say about it, Lance won't be there. That being said, Astana still has enough GC riders to clamp down on the race.

 

[bianchigirl]

Chavanel has always been a classy rider but would he honestly have finished where he did with Cofidis? BTW the Mimo example was more a way to make a point than having a particular go at him - he's a good rider and an extremely nice bloke.

Maybe a better example would have been Hamilton when he rode for CSC

 

[Mellow Velo]

A lot of Germans spat upon CSC's Jens Voigt, during the 2004 Alp D'Huez time trial, for chasing down Jan Ullrich, the day before.
That's what happens when fans, who follow a specific team/riders, get hysterical. Ignorance clouds better judgement.
Try following the sport, not a man.

Oh and Pozzato has done his share of spitting, in the past.
Also at the 2004 Tour.

 

[Angliru]

Chavanel- "Hard Man"!

None of us would have called Chavanel one of the "Hard Men" of the sport several years ago. He's matured into a rider that knows what events are best geared to his talents as opposed to the rider that Cofidis and Bouygues Bbox (for lack of remembering the team name when he was with it) thought was the next French hope in the Tour. I think its possible that had he stayed with Cofidis that he could've equaled his placements in Flanders and Roubaix because he would have been riding for himself and not to been setting up his teammates. Of course with that position comes added pressure which many riders may crumble under but he seems to have found his comfort zone so to speak and simply loves to get down and dirty in these events and compete.

 

[bianchigirl]

One of the things I'm really enjoying this season is seeing French riders being competitive again. Particularly Chavanel who is my regional

 

[jaylew]

I think its possible that had he stayed with Cofidis that he could've equaled his placements in Flanders and Roubaix because he would have been riding for himself and not to been setting up his teammates.

Agreed. After all, Nuyens finished 2nd and 7th at Flanders for Cofidis. Plus, I think he made his big jump last year with his Dwars Door Vlaanderen, Brabanste Pijl and P-N and TdF stage victories and that this year is just a natural progression.

It's weird. Chavanel is one of those riders I've always rather disliked but I don't even remember why anymore.

 

[quadsRme]

it is somewhat refreshing to see French riders starting to show some competitiveness. it's good for the sport

 

[St. Elia]

I guess i just think it is sad when a rider starts doing well we automatically assume that they are doping. But I guess that is pro cycling. I have to admit that I was pretty sure Ricco was doping before he got caught last year and even said it to several friends, it was rather obvious


I think that Chavanel has a real chance to win this weekend, we will have to wait and see if he ever tests positive.

L

 

[bianchigirl]

It's great to see there's so much Mimo love

 

[Angliru]

It's weird. Chavanel is one of those riders I've always rather disliked but I don't even remember why anymore.

Same here but I recall that I just grew tired of the lofty expectations and touting of his talents by the media and commentators when his results just weren't supporting the hype. Not any fault of his he seemed to be just out there competing and doing his best. I also recall looking at his body type and thinking this guy is kind of big to be trying to compete with the climbers that excell on the mountain stages but figured hey what do I know, I'm here at home watching on my couch.

 

[BigBoat]

how the hell did contador beat wiggins/martin etc over the distance in the paris nice prologue?.

The Postal/ Disco/ Astana has a formulative, unique, "program" is all we can conclude.

But if I was contradope, I would not have been so super super "jacked" for that TT. It looked really unusual. One thing you must consider is that total wattage (total power) trumps watts per kilogram (power to weight) in a dead flat time trial. So a big strong guy will always beat a little guy of equal talent provided the big guy is aero'd to the nines. I can say Contador probably weighs 130 pounds and Wiggans is atleast 175... Wiggans was jacked by the way... Everyone who finished Paris-Nice probably was.

There are some big "separators" in the Astana "program" versus the CSC/ Saxo bank "program."