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If Cadel is such a great TTer

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W

Waterloo Sunrise

Sep 9, 2009
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Why did he get crushed by Bradley on this very course?

Why couldn't he catch Carlos in this very situation?


If Andy is so awful, why did he only lose 30 seconds to Bertie on a course which suited him far far less than this?


I'm just amazed at the level of confidence around here.

I want Cadel to win. But I expect Andy to be fine today, sadly.
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
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Bertie was never in top shape in 2010 Tour. Plus the time trial didn't suit him as much as a course like this.
 
W

Waterloo Sunrise

Sep 9, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
Bertie was never in top shape in 2010 Tour. Plus the time trial didn't suit him as much as a course like this.
Click to expand...

Your first point is valid and I take it in to account, but I still consider Contador in that shape a match for Cadel based on recent years.

Your second point is irrelevant as long and flat penalises Andy as least as much as it does Bertie, if not more. Today suits Andy far far better than last year.
 
W

Waterloo Sunrise

Sep 9, 2009
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
Andy Schleck lost more than 2:20 to Menchov last year. That's terrible

Contador is the wrong comparison because he was not in the best shape
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Cadel lost 7 minutes to Menchov. Obviously he was injured, but I think it needs posting somewhere anyhow.

I just don't see the dominance from Cadel in recent years to justify the levels of confidence on this board. I only started this thread as the other 1 arguing this point was by a tedious Schleck fanboy and received glib responses as such.
 
T

timmers

Sep 20, 2009
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Well some people including myself think that no time trial course will suit Andy Schleck.
However the good thing about tours is we may be surprised!

Plus Wiggins TT result at the end of a three week tour is unknown!
 
LukeSchmid

LukeSchmid

Sep 27, 2009
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
Why did he get crushed by Bradley on this very course?

Why couldn't he catch Carlos in this very situation?


If Andy is so awful, why did he only lose 30 seconds to Bertie on a course which suited him far far less than this?


I'm just amazed at the level of confidence around here.

I want Cadel to win. But I expect Andy to be fine today, sadly.
Click to expand...

Cadel looked horrible on the climbs in the Dauphine, has been climbing much, much better in the Tour. He must be in a lot better shape.
 
W

Waterloo Sunrise

Sep 9, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Cuddles' TT is highly overrated, he hasn't been at his 2007 level in a long time.

That said, he's still got more than a good chance of overhauling Andy. I see it as almost a done deal.
Click to expand...

We shall see. Dim will be readying the 'Brad would have won this Tour' thread as we speak. I'm half with him, the way this tour has been ridden.
 
craig1985

craig1985

May 6, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Cuddles' TT is highly overrated, he hasn't been at his 2007 level in a long time.

That said, he's still got more than a good chance of overhauling Andy. I see it as almost a done deal.
Click to expand...

I see it as though you have jinxed him.
 
El Imbatido

El Imbatido

Mar 17, 2009
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
Why did he get crushed by Bradley on this very course?

Why couldn't he catch Carlos in this very situation?


If Andy is so awful, why did he only lose 30 seconds to Bertie on a course which suited him far far less than this?


I'm just amazed at the level of confidence around here.

I want Cadel to win. But I expect Andy to be fine today, sadly.
Click to expand...

Ok ill address your points one at a time:

1. Evans along with almost everyone got crushed by wiggins in the Dauphine TT because it was raining and guys like Evans and Vinokourov most likely didn't want to crash and ruin their season just to have a better shot at winning the Dauphine. Wiggins took more risks that day. Watch the stage again if you have to. Also as others have pointed out he has much better form here at the Tour and for once seems to have peaked at the right time.

2. I think he overestimated his TT ability and underestimated Carlos's ability to TT. Also if you you had read his book he was actually peeing blood by this stage in the 08 Tour and his crash on stage 9 had obviously taken effect on him. (The DS in the team car said he knew after the first km of the TT that Cadel didn't have it that day)

3. As was said by previous posters....Conti was not the usual conti we are used to seeing in last years tour. In the end they both lost enormous time to proper TTers

4. The level of confidence here i believe is justified. He has been proven in the past to be a far superior TTer and that along with him actually riding the course previously gives him an advantage over Schleck who from the front page article here on Cyclingnews has only seen the course on TV and will preview it for the first time today.

5. I too want Cadel to win......but i am wary of the magical powers of Yellow in a TT (most likely due to clinic related issues we can't discuss here).

Hope that answers your questions
 
K

Kvinto

Oct 28, 2010
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Evans rode whole the Dauphine exactly the same way like Menchov did the Tour de Romandie 2009. There was no need to repeat the mistakes of the past, he had the great ride at Dauphine several times and it's obvious that he had other objectives this time. I don't think it's reasonable to make a debate about "why Cadel Evans is a lot better time trialist than Andy Schleck?" but it doesn't mean Cadel will surely get a 58 seconds advantage. The main point is that if he'll really lose the Tour in this TT it'll be not because of his poor (or Andy's great) tt abilities but because the recovery after 3 weeks of racing is no less crucial than the pure tt skills.
 
W

Waterloo Sunrise

Sep 9, 2009
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El Imbatido said:
Ok ill address your points one at a time:

1. Evans along with almost everyone got crushed by wiggins in the Dauphine TT because it was raining and guys like Evans and Vinokourov most likely didn't want to crash and ruin their season just to have a better shot at winning the Dauphine. Wiggins took more risks that day. Watch the stage again if you have to. Also as others have pointed out he has much better form here at the Tour and for once seems to have peaked at the right time.

2. I think he overestimated his TT ability and underestimated Carlos's ability to TT. Also if you you had read his book he was actually peeing blood by this stage in the 08 Tour and his crash on stage 9 had obviously taken effect on him. (The DS in the team car said he knew after the first km of the TT that Cadel didn't have it that day)

3. As was said by previous posters....Conti was not the usual conti we are used to seeing in last years tour. In the end they both lost enormous time to proper TTers

4. The level of confidence here i believe is justified. He has been proven in the past to be a far superior TTer and that along with him actually riding the course previously gives him an advantage over Schleck who from the front page article here on Cyclingnews has only seen the course on TV and will preview it for the first time today.

5. I too want Cadel to win......but i am wary of the magical powers of Yellow in a TT (most likely due to clinic related issues we can't discuss here).

Hope that answers your questions
Click to expand...

Plenty of valid discussion points, but on 1., I think you will find if you go back and watch it again, that Wiggins lost time to Evans in the final 3rd, the wet downhill section, because he didn't want to take risks. The beating was valid and can't be blamed on conditions.
 
I

its like that

Jul 14, 2011
132
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
Why did he get crushed by Bradley on this very course?

Why couldn't he catch Carlos in this very situation?


If Andy is so awful, why did he only lose 30 seconds to Bertie on a course which suited him far far less than this?


I'm just amazed at the level of confidence around here.

I want Cadel to win. But I expect Andy to be fine today, sadly.
Click to expand...


You clearly don't know much about cycling
 
K

Kakhmed

May 3, 2011
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
Cadel fans are surprisingly bitter for winners.

He rode very well today, better than I expected, but everything I wrote earlier was a valid view point and triumphalist hindsight won't change that.
Click to expand...

And rightly so, after everything they've copped for supporting the Australian over the years.
 
BillytheKid

BillytheKid

Jun 1, 2011
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
Cadel fans are surprisingly bitter for winners.

He rode very well today, better than I expected, but everything I wrote earlier was a valid view point and triumphalist hindsight won't change that.
Click to expand...

No they're not bitter. You just can't pull your foot out your mouth. Evans has always been a very good ITT man. What he did in the Dauphine (which was still a 5th) really has no bearing on doing it better when it really counts. I still can't get over how nobody has notice the gift the Schlecks have been given over the past two years (a least Andy last year with FAbs on the cobbles). Both Tours have been lacked the double ITT at length 50Ks+. The Schlecks would not even have made the podium in a traditional Tour. I hope this is the end of this kind of Tour for a while.

I've put my foot there too! But hindsight has met reality.
 
W

Waterloo Sunrise

Sep 9, 2009
6,483
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BillytheKid said:
No they're not bitter. You just can't pull your foot out your mouth. Evans has always been a very good ITT man. What he did in the Dauphine (which was still a 5th) really has no bearing on doing it better when it really counts. I still can't get over how nobody has notice the gift the Schlecks have been given over the past two years (a least Andy last year with FAbs on the cobbles). Both Tours have been lacked the double ITT at length 50Ks+. The Schlecks would not even have made the podium in a traditional Tour. I hope this is the end of this kind of Tour for a while.

I've put my foot there too! But hindsight has met reality.
Click to expand...

I said 2 things about Cadel in this thread and they were both objective facts.

Couldn't agree more on the Schlecks - as I said elsewhere, after this latest failure I hope the ASO stop trying to gift it and go back to 2 long TTs.
 
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