In defense of the Old School

[dpcowboy]

This quote yesterday from Richie Porte:
"Put it this way, if I know that Bjarne Riis is in the car and my face is contorted, he's going to pass on to Alberto that Richie's hurting."

And why is this a good thing?
Race Radios are just one of the many things wrong with professional
road racing.
To know, via your earpiece, how another rider 'looks', without having to
see for oneself, well...that just seems wrong.

 

[woodie]

This quote yesterday from Richie Porte:
"Put it this way, if I know that Bjarne Riis is in the car and my face is contorted, he's going to pass on to Alberto that Richie's hurting."

And why is this a good thing?
Race Radios are just one of the many things wrong with professional
road racing.
To know, via your earpiece, how another rider 'looks', without having to
see for oneself, well...that just seems wrong.

I dunno, they worked out pretty well on stage 1. Imagine if they couldn't get the bus unstuck.

 

[The Sheep]

I dunno, they worked out pretty well on stage 1. Imagine if they couldn't get the bus unstuck.

Without radios they would have neutralized the stage and there wouldn't have been a massive crash.

 

[Ruby United]

This quote yesterday from Richie Porte:
"Put it this way, if I know that Bjarne Riis is in the car and my face is contorted, he's going to pass on to Alberto that Richie's hurting."

And why is this a good thing?
Race Radios are just one of the many things wrong with professional
road racing.
To know, via your earpiece, how another rider 'looks', without having to
see for oneself, well...that just seems wrong.

I think Richie is just explaining why he is always smiling

 

[phanatic]

Without radios they would have neutralized the stage and there wouldn't have been a massive crash.

Not at the same speed at least.

 

[woodie]

Without radios they would have neutralized the stage and there wouldn't have been a massive crash.

There would have been a crash with or without the bus incident. I was glad they didn't stop the race, it would have been very disappointing. Of course safety has to be the number one concern, which is why i'm a big believer of radios.

 

[The Sheep]

There would have been a crash with or without the bus incident. I was glad they didn't stop the race, it would have been very disappointing. Of course safety has to be the number one concern, which is why i'm a big believer of radios.

If there wouldn't have been radios there wouldn't have been a crash because the organization would have neutralized the race because there was a bus stuck at the finish. The radios caused less safety in that particular incident.

 

[RedheadDane]

I think there should be a balance.
Radios shouldn't be for the DS to call up to the team and go "This rider's in pain." (and of course a rider can pretend to be in pain...) or, which is probably the biggest argument for the anti-radio-people, go "ATTACK!"
Instead radios should primarily be used for general information such as who's in the break, informations about tricky descends (sp?), stuff like that... and, perhaps the most important, as it's not something that could be done over Radio Tour, inform the riders where the team's soigneurs are standing in the feed zone.

Basically; keep the radios, but a DS should trust the the riders are able to make up the tactics on their own, like what happened with Saxo on the wind-stage.

 

[woodie]

If there wouldn't have been radios there wouldn't have been a crash because the organization would have neutralized the race because there was a bus stuck at the finish. The radios caused less safety in that particular incident.

In that case I agree, the radios were a major factor in the confusion and subsequent crash.

I think there should be a balance.
Radios shouldn't be for the DS to call up to the team and go "This rider's in pain." (and of course a rider can pretend to be in pain...) or, which is probably the biggest argument for the anti-radio-people, go "ATTACK!"
Instead radios should primarily be used for general information such as who's in the break, informations about tricky descends (sp?), stuff like that... and, perhaps the most important, as it's not something that could be done over Radio Tour, inform the riders where the team's soigneurs are standing in the feed zone.

Basically; keep the radios, but a DS should trust the the riders are able to make up the tactics on their own, like what happened with Saxo on the wind-stage.

From a few pro's i've spoken to that is the case, the riders are generally the ones that make the call out on the road. The DS just sets out the strategy at the start of the race, the riders are more in charge of the tactics.

 

[ElChingon]

Well you can counter that Old School with some new age image analysis, to prove a fake smile from a true smile. Just need a camera to take a head on shot of the rider and compare it to past photo's of the rider. Old School can be beat very easily, at least the fake smile/gestures and with little tech.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

No school like the old school and he was the fcuking headmaster

 

[silverrocket]

If there wouldn't have been radios there wouldn't have been a crash because the organization would have neutralized the race because there was a bus stuck at the finish. The radios caused less safety in that particular incident.

Multiple riders said the cause of the crash was the confusion resulting from the uncertainty of the finish-line changes they were hearing over the radio.

If the real purpose of radios was "safety" than they could simply have a 1-way common feed from the race organizers to the riders and team cars. There is no safety need for team cars to communicate directly with their riders, and vice versa.

 

[murali]

without the radios, the gaps are kept in check. unless of course, the leaders are not part of GC fight. Tactically, a tour without radios ought to be interesting.


i believe that radio is a good thing. of course, there will always be teams like Sky who will challenge my belief.

as far as the concern regarding porte's comments in OP goes, i think it is BS. first of all, Riis is not stupid enough to tell it in radio. Secondly, a saxo rider would have already spotted it. Rogers anyways knows about the grimace, so every one in saxo also knows about it.

 

[RedheadDane]

From a few pro's i've spoken to that is the case, the riders are generally the ones that make the call out on the road. The DS just sets out the strategy at the start of the race, the riders are more in charge of the tactics.

Then all's cool, as far as I'm concerned

If the real purpose of radios was "safety" than they could simply have a 1-way common feed from the race organizers to the riders and team cars. There is no safety need for team cars to communicate directly with their riders, and vice versa.

What about stuff like telling riders where the soigneurs are standing in the feedzone?

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

The greatest wrongs with radios is they reduce the need for racers to learn racecraft, and they give a rider in the lead too much power. It tells him if/when riders who are off the front are of no danger, and if it is safe for him to sit in.

In the olden days, if a danger man was off the front, the leader was obligated to remain in contact with him. Now, he can remain in contact even when the danger man is off the front, because of the bug in his ear. Back then there was none of this nonsense allowing a breakaway to get a 10-minute lead, the reeling them in to nip them at the 2 km mark. The racing was more active, more reactionary and less calculating, and I count that a good thing.

I want the fat old guy riding in the air conditioned Skoda to have as little influence over who wins the race as possible, and I want the guy who's spinning the pedals to have to do all the heavy lifting.


Motor racing is experiencing the same problems, particularly F1. With hundreds of sensors in the cars, the driver doesn't have to do any strategic thinking. His race engineer can monitor all systems on the car, as well as the position and progress of all competitors. From the calm remove of the pit wall, he does all the correlations, thinking and strategising, then tells the driver whether he's pushing his tyres too hard, consuming fuel too fast, or whether that Schumacher guy is coming up fast.

 

[jens_attacks]

amen

ice t all the way

 

[cineteq]

Without radios they would have neutralized the stage and there wouldn't have been a massive crash.

People are still confusing race radios with team radios.

 

[cineteq]

Without radios they would have neutralized the stage and there wouldn't have been a massive crash.

People are still confusing race radio with team radios.

 

[Descender]

Earpieces go home.

I'm all for it.

 

[RedheadDane]

How come some people seem to think that team radios mean that the riders are all being remote-controlled by the car?
Sure, there might be some DSs who try to control their riders' every action, but as woodie already pointed out: in most cases it's the riders who call the shots during the race.
Basically I think team radios are mainly used for:

A: Basic information which cannot be delivered over the official Race Radio, or delivering the news of Race Radio to the riders in a language they actually understand. (For example; I'm sure the Race Radio in TdF is in French... not everybody speaks French...)

B: Motivating a rider, when DS is too far away to just go all Marc Madiot. Also, according to Sastre, reminding riders that they need to eat an drink...

And finally C, something it could be used for: When a rider attacks from the peloton, catches nearly everyone, going solo towards the finish, maybe the DS could say something like "You have not caught everyone. [Name of actual Winner] already won! Please don't make a fool out of yourself and celebrate when crossing the line!"

 

[Vino's Mum]

Yup. All that west coast G-funk is the bomb. The Chronic, Doggystyle...

 

[woodie]

The greatest wrongs with radios is they reduce the need for racers to learn racecraft, and they give a rider in the lead too much power. It tells him if/when riders who are off the front are of no danger, and if it is safe for him to sit in.

In the olden days, if a danger man was off the front, the leader was obligated to remain in contact with him. Now, he can remain in contact even when the danger man is off the front, because of the bug in his ear. Back then there was none of this nonsense allowing a breakaway to get a 10-minute lead, the reeling them in to nip them at the 2 km mark. The racing was more active, more reactionary and less calculating, and I count that a good thing.

I want the fat old guy riding in the air conditioned Skoda to have as little influence over who wins the race as possible, and I want the guy who's spinning the pedals to have to do all the heavy lifting.


Motor racing is experiencing the same problems, particularly F1. With hundreds of sensors in the cars, the driver doesn't have to do any strategic thinking. His race engineer can monitor all systems on the car, as well as the position and progress of all competitors. From the calm remove of the pit wall, he does all the correlations, thinking and strategising, then tells the driver whether he's pushing his tyres too hard, consuming fuel too fast, or whether that Schumacher guy is coming up fast.

But there are only team radios in the world tour, in the lower tier races there is still need for race craft as there are no team radios, and you don't get a world tour contract without having race craft.