Indurain - Am I assuming correctly?

[Son of Amsterhammer]

What is the general consensus?

I assume that he just got away with it.

Am I wrong?

Are there some that think he was legit?

I'm sure this has been done to death, but I'm not up to speed with the search function here yet.

 

[Eagle]

Here's another thread for him, that should answer your question
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=19772&hilit=indurain

Second post of the thread

Indurain more or less admitted to doping to a radio interviewer. He was told he could say "next question" to any question he didn't want to answer, and was asked a series of questions about his relationship with various riders and a few controversial topics. When asked if he'd ever doped, he said "next question", and when the interviewer, incredulously, pointed out that that implied that he had, Indurain repeated his statement.

Miguelón being on EPO is more or less a given.

 

[Saint Unix]

If it wasn't for his whole 'nice guy' act he'd have been taken down by now. Armstrong got busted because he was a di*k. Indurain continues to con the world even though it's absolutely obvious what he was doing. I think there's a graph that shows his power increase over the course of his five Tour wins. It's more hilarious than 2011 edition Chris Froome.

That being said, Indurain had a seriously impressive engine to begin with. It's just that the engine alone isn't enough to drag his enormous arse over the mountains like he did.

 

[sniper]

there is also under oath rider testimony out there (not sure in relation to which case, I think some Italian doping case early 2000s) where an ex-banesto rider says the whole banesto team was doped.
would have to look for it, maybe from memory someone else knows.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

OK....thanks all!

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

Hmm...lets see. Worked with Conconi and Ferrari, destroyed some high profiled, well-known, dopers on a serial program, in both TT and when needed, mountains, in the thick (pun intended) of the EPO-era. He is cleans!

It was pretty clear early on that he'd got protection from the highest order. Banesto is a sort of a mystery because everything we know from that era there is little that have zipped out from both riders and people working with them despite some high profilic doctors on board. He'll probably run away with it and not many dare to speak out against Big Mig either because, as have been said, he was and is a respected champ among the inner sanctum of cycling.

there is also under oath rider testimony out there (not sure in relation to which case, I think some Italian doping case early 2000s) where an ex-banesto rider says the whole banesto team was doped.
would have to look for it, maybe from memory someone else knows.

Surely, you speak about the Davy-admission but that was in the Festina-case.

 

["Jeff"]

One of the first riders who had a big advantage by using EPO. His talent + EPO was too much for the rest.

Pjotr Ugrumov (60+) with Ferrari on his side, almost took him down in the Giro of 1993.

That stage to Oropa is one of the best I have ever seen.

 

[Lyon]

The Indurain of 95 could have won the sprint-stages of the Tour if he had bothered to...

 

[Saint Unix]

The Indurain time trials of '92 and '94 are some of the finest displays of what will happen when you combine ridiculous time trialling talent wih the best doping programmes available. You won't find anything quite as hilarious as Indurain's first 15 kilometers of the '94 TT.

Watching those stages should also remove any reasonable doubt as to whether Indurain was on The Stuff or not. One of the most obviously doped riders of our time. He had the build of Cancellara, yet stuck with purebred climbers (also on dope) in the mountains. Not normal, to use one of the Clinic's favourite phrases.

 

[carton]

I don't remember him denying him straight up, at least the last 10 years or so. So that helps his case a bit in terms of the venom he gets. He was also by pretty much all accounts a genuinely humble dude.

But yeah, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_statistics

 

[TI-Raleigh]

Indurain is a prime example of what EPO can do for a rider. Sure, he was already a world class talent. EPO allowed him to haul his huge carcass over mountains quickly enough to keep riders like Pantani in check.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Surely, you speak about the Davy-admission but that was in the Festina-case.

cheers, indeed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/banesto-named-in-drug-case-636949.html

needless to say, it raises a shitload of questions about the integrity of the sport.
why has nothing been done with that testimony?
why do guys like Lemond hang out with Indurain?
etc.

 

[cellardoor]

His lungs were 10 times the size of a normal human though

 

[86TDFWinner]

Re:

His lungs were 10 times the size of a normal human though

Which, along with his size/build, make it weird and draw the "why" question, as to why would he need to dope, if he's already a beast.

 

[Saint Unix]

He needed to dope to drag his enormous body over the climbs. He could probably gotten by as a time trial specialist/rouleur without dope, but winning GCs? Not possible in the early to mid-ninties without EPO. Especially not with 15-20 kgs more to haul up the climbs than most of the other favourites.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Which, along with his size/build, make it weird and draw the "why" question, as to why would he need to dope, if he's already a beast.

Not a great mystery. The short answer is because performance enhancing drugs enhance performance.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

His lungs were 10 times the size of a normal human though

Which, along with his size/build, make it weird and draw the "why" question, as to why would he need to dope, if he's already a beast.

There are plenty of explanations to this, some of them has already been given.

*The better you are, the better you would like to become. Not only you as individual thinks like this but also your surroundings. Which leads to the second:

*Surely Indurains "advisors" (like Conconi/Ferrari) realised they had a goldmine on hand. For "scientific" reasons i'd imagine they thought they could push the sound barrier with a guy with these values and what he would be able to do with a little "help". After this sport evolved into a culture of riders as labaratory rats, this was inevitable.

*It is for the "benefit" of the sport when a champ with sub-human values propelles into the mind of people. People would chose cycling over cross skiing, running or other endurance activities and the overall interest of the sport would rise. Too bad Indurain was sort of an introvert but the best avaible. And he couldnt sit in the pack for this to happen.

Sniper:

No_Balls wrote:
Surely, you speak about the Davy-admission but that was in the Festina-case.

cheers, indeed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/banesto-named-in-drug-case-636949.html

needless to say, it raises a shitload of questions about the integrity of the sport.
why has nothing been done with that testimony?
why do guys like Lemond hang out with Indurain?
etc.

I remember when the story broke Davy was met with both ridicule and/or total silence back when Omerta was alive and kicking. Too bad it would probably be met with the same kind of response today as "doping is a thing of the past".

And i agree it doesnt look good on Lemonds resume. Even back in the days i find it hard to believe that this proud champ would just roll over and die when the new stock of super-chargers burst into the scene. Let alone today as the self-made voice of anti-doping his silence on the matter is talkative.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Ferrari didnt want to work with him back in '85-'86 I believe. No wonder, EPO wasnt around. Conconi however at the back of 1987 did. Everyone can do the math.

Wouldnt it be cool if il Mito would write a tell all book?

 

[franic]

Re:

Ferrari didnt want to work with him back in '85-'86 I believe. No wonder, EPO wasnt around. Conconi however at the back of 1987 did. Everyone can do the math.

Wouldnt it be cool if il Mito would write a tell all book?

Ferrari will hardly admit his sins. If one among Conconi and Ferrari writes a book, we’ll learn something really nice.

 

[Fernandez]

Re:

Indurain is a prime example of what EPO can do for a rider. Sure, he was already a world class talent. EPO allowed him to haul his huge carcass over mountains quickly enough to keep riders like Pantani in check.

Very funny that you really believe that Pantani wasnt on the same as Indurain.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

Indurain is a prime example of what EPO can do for a rider. Sure, he was already a world class talent. EPO allowed him to haul his huge carcass over mountains quickly enough to keep riders like Pantani in check.

Very funny that you really believe that Pantani wasnt on the same as Indurain.

Off course Pantani was on the same, yet, he couldnt TT could he? At least not to the level BIG MIG could.

edit: let me tell you this, after Epo got in the peloton, the guys who climb the best and TT the best are not to be trusted

 

[Fernandez]

The thing with Indurain is that everybody at his time was on the same stuff as him, so he won everybody in the same conditions. But it has never been proved that Indurain doped (which i think he probably did), but nobody can say the same with the greatest Eddy Merckx, who was caugh in more than an occasion.

 

["Jeff"]

Re:

The thing with Indurain is that everybody at his time was on the same stuff as him, so he won everybody in the same conditions. .

The argument of “same level playing field” amongst cheats in cycling needs to stop. I dont understand why people keep saying this. Than you just dont understand it IMO.

Like someone said, I am really curious when Indurain started with EPO. Personally I always had the feeling it wasnt since early 1992.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

The thing with Indurain is that everybody at his time was on the same stuff as him, so he won everybody in the same conditions. But it has never been proved that Indurain doped (which i think he probably did), but nobody can say the same with the greatest Eddy Merckx, who was caugh in more than an occasion.

Not true:

https://twitter.com/sporza_koers/status/619863196309024768

Explain that.

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

The thing with Indurain is that everybody at his time was on the same stuff as him, so he won everybody in the same conditions. But it has never been proved that Indurain doped (which i think he probably did), but nobody can say the same with the greatest Eddy Merckx, who was caugh in more than an occasion.

Not true:

https://twitter.com/sporza_koers/status/619863196309024768

Explain that.

Well none of them would be any danger for the GC but I get your point. Poor Lotto. I remember this stage well.

What's even more surprising, this was 1995 already. I wonder if this team have been living in a cave for years.