Inter-team tactics for Intra-Nationalist ambitions?

[Boeing]

I hope I have the grammar right in this title.

In short: Do riders abandon team tactics to support nationalist results in grand tours?

My kids asked this question watching stage 13. For example could David Moncoutie have backed off to allow Roy a chance? or vise-versa.

Are there examples of this in the past?

Could Spanish riders help AC in the Alpes in a sort of hand shake inter team tactic?

 

[Jamsque]

Lots of deals get made in breakaways, and in the late moments of stages. Sometimes nationality comes in to play, sometimes future team contracts, sometimes promises of cash. It's not as common now as it used to be but I'm sure all kinds still occur.

The last good example of nationalism I can think if is Contador and Valverde in the Dauphine, but contract hopes played in to that too.

 

[hrotha]

Are there examples of this in the past?

Could Spanish riders help AC in the Alpes in a sort of hand shake inter team tactic?

Movistar would NEVER do something like this. Not again. Ok, maybe they would.

The question is, do they do it because AC is Spanish, because he's friends with their riders, or because they hope to convince him to sign with them in the future?

Anyway, it happens often, and I find it totally lame.

 

[RedheadDane]

Well, apparently a few Frenchies aren't completely dismissal of the possibility that they might help Voeckler win the Tour.
But, as Jerome Coppel put it: "It's not exactly our speciality!"

Also a couple of days ago Samuel Sanchez replied with a clear "Yes!" when being asked if he would help Contador. Though I think that's out now...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Valverde also helped the Schlecks to nullify any moves threatening Sastre in the 2008 Alpe d'Huez stage. Chris Horner paced Tejay van Garderen up to the top of the same mountain to defend his podium position in the Dauphiné, but then we know that Chris Horner's attitude to people not from the USA is very different to his attitude to people who are.

Many pacts are made in races. Some of them can be overtly nationalist, others simply seem that way because those riders are the ones that communicate with one another best. Leonardo Piepoli, for example, was a master of making such pacts, and nationality may or may not come into it, depending on who was his ally for the day.

With the French teams, there is a lot of rivalry between them and so aiming for a French stage victory isn't really the target; the teams all want to get one over on each other. A Frenchman riding for a foreign team, say Le Mevel, Moinard or di Gregorio, might have acted differently.

 

[Sem Travões]

That's not a problem for Team Katusha riders

 

[Jamsque]

That's not a problem for Team Katusha riders

No, their problem is that they suck.

 

[El Pistolero]

No, their problem is that they suck.

That's quite the understatement.

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

Yes it does happen.

It can also happen the other way aswell at the world championships with riders putting trade team before country.

 

[nesocip]

I hope I have the grammar right in this title.

In short: Do riders abandon team tactics to support nationalist results in grand tours?

My kids asked this question watching stage 13. For example could David Moncoutie have backed off to allow Roy a chance? or vise-versa.

Are there examples of this in the past?

Could Spanish riders help AC in the Alpes in a sort of hand shake inter team tactic?

Ask Gibo Simoni and Ivan Basso.

 

[Anonymous]

Have a word with Charlie Wegelius, see what his opinion is

 

[PedalCastro]

When Roche crashed he managed to bring down D. Martin.. The Irish way!!

 

[taiwan]

Bert/Valverde at the '09 Dauphinee had Evans p'issed if I'm remembering right.

 

[screaming fist]

Well, apparently a few Frenchies aren't completely dismissal of the possibility that they might help Voeckler win the Tour.

Do you have a idead who would do so? Besides the rivalries between the French teams, Voeckler isn't the most popular guy in the peloton... but maybe I can't really imagine how big a tour victory would be for French cycling.

 

[rzombie1988]

There really seemed to be something going on with Contador and the Euskatel guys in the Giro.

 

[taiwan]

There really seemed to be something going on with Contador and the Euskatel guys in the Giro.

Though there was open collaboration with Tiralongo too, Italian, but a former domestique (which everyone knows).

 

[Pantani_lives]

On the other hand there can also be rivalry, like Once vs Banesto, Raas vs Post, or Scarponi vs Nibali.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I hope I have the grammar right in this title.

In short: Do riders abandon team tactics to support nationalist results in grand tours?

My kids asked this question watching stage 13. For example could David Moncoutie have backed off to allow Roy a chance? or vise-versa.

Are there examples of this in the past?

Could Spanish riders help AC in the Alpes in a sort of hand shake inter team tactic?

The french rarely ever help each other in those typesof situations. They are a funny lot. The spanish on the other hand do quite frequently. Valverde on Alpe D'Huez helping Sastre and Contador helping Valverde in the 2009 dauphine of which he openly acknowledged that he did. I don't like the tatics because they are rather negative

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Maybe Stuey O'Grady & Richie Porte can do something for Cadel?

 

[Midnightfright]

Im starting to think those 2 Lux boys Schleck and Schleck could really do something if they ever thought about working for each other.

 

[El Imbatido]

It does happen.......i remember in the 2009 Vuelta one of the last MTFs.(La Pandera i think) Most of the favourites had gapped Valverde who was race leader on the first couple of kms of the la Pandera and were probably 20secs or so up the road and Valverde looked like he was pedaling squares at the time when a Fuji-Servetto rider started pacing Valverde. He just sat behind and eventually recovered and at the top beat most of the favs in the last sprint.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That Fuji-Servetto rider was Juanjó Cobo, who was in the top 10 of the GC. It's true that Valverde used him for pacing, but this wasn't necessarily due to anything nationalist (after all, the rider who stood to gain most was Sánchez, though Gesink was also up the road and potentially taking the maillot oro, and Mosquera was furthest up the road). You could argue that at that point, Cobo to Caisse was more or less a done thing, and Valverde rewarded him by not marking his late attack on the way into La Granja - Valverde won the sprint for 2nd, gaining 4 seconds on Evans. You could also argue that the actions of Cobo on La Pandera aided his contract with Caisse, the same way as Kiryienka impressed Unzué so much on the stage Arroyo won in 2008, after Arroyo played monitor and sat on Kiryienka all the way as Caisse were working for Valverde, only to misjudge it because of underestimating Kiryienka's strength, that he jumped it and gave him a contract.

On the other side of things, Ricardo Riccò accused Emanuele Sella and Domenico Pozzovivo of pacing Contador up Monte Pora in the 2008 Giro, which worked against him and Danilo di Luca who were up the road...

 

[Boeing]

the brief coverage we saw of AC and Sanchez today, it looked like they didnt want much to do with one another before the climb

 

[Angliru]

The french rarely ever help each other in those typesof situations. They are a funny lot. The spanish on the other hand do quite frequently. Valverde on Alpe D'Huez helping Sastre and Contador helping Valverde in the 2009 dauphine of which he openly acknowledged that he did. I don't like the tatics because they are rather negative

Of course both incidences that involved Evans being on the losing end. I am so surprised these were your examples.