Is there anything new in pro cycling besides doping & LA?

[vv777vv]

Aren't this suppose to be a place for us to talk & share about pro cycling, the news in the peloton?

but i noticed that regardless of the topic of the thread, when it's related to pro cycling, somehow we'll get postings implicating LA and his teams are doping and their conspiracy theories. Also many outstanding results will be linked to doping.

as i've stated in some of the threads, i'm not pro LA and i do not encourage doping either but it's really sickening when there are a few out there who just don't seem to have anything to say about cycling other than bashings and sometimes baseless accusations.

until he (or anybody else) really get caught, can we move on and discuss about other things in pro cycling???

I really wonder is there anything else in pro cycling other than LA & doping???

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

There's a sticky at the top of the forum about the Giro d'Italia. It's a pretty busy thread. I suggest you join us.

 

[vv777vv]

i know, that's like one of the very few at the moment. let's see if it stays the same after the race starts and we get some results


*oops, i just clicked on page 11 and guess what, the first posting on that page is from you and his name is there again .... arrrgh ... lol

 

[jaylew]

You will probably get bashed on this thread, but for the most part I agree with you. It's not just LA, though. Pretty much anybody that is mentioned as being strong or having a good race will eventually be accused.

You might find the ignore function useful. You can use it to block known trolls and those who don't add anything constructive and simply want to stir s**t up. It will save you a bunch of aggravation if you never even have to see their garbage.

See you in the Giro thread!

 

[BroDeal]

You will probably get bashed on this thread, but for the most part I agree with you. It's not just LA, though. Pretty much anybody that is mentioned as being strong or having a good race will eventually be accused.

I think that just goes to show how far the sport has fallen. It has little credibility now. None of the results can be trusted. If you turn your brain off, the racing can be enjoyable; but as soon as you start thinking again, you have to admit that what you watched was not real and it has little connection with your own cycling experience.

 

[davidg]

I think that just goes to show how far the sport has fallen.

No I think it goes to show how little some people have in their life.

When they are retired, they will be watching the world from behind their curtains and reporting the people who don't line their rubbish bins up at 90degrees to the kerb.

Agree 100% with the original post.

 

[BroDeal]

No I think it goes to show how little some people have in their life.

When they are retired, they will be watching the world from behind their curtains and reporting the people who don't line their rubbish bins up at 90degrees to the kerb.

Yeah, pity those poor fools who want to watch a real sporting competition instead of a contest determined by who has the best doctor, who is willing to take the most risks with their future health, and who can pay the biggest bribe to the UCI. How dare they pine for a fair sport. It is so much easier to pretend that riders who would have never placed in the top ten of the TdF without dope are great champions.

This is why I am so upset that Bernie Madoff is in jail. Why cannot the haters leave the poor guy alone? A titan of finance like him should not be criticized by the little people.

 

[tashimi76]

I think that just goes to show how far the sport has fallen. It has little credibility now. None of the results can be trusted. If you turn your brain off, the racing can be enjoyable; but as soon as you start thinking again, you have to admit that what you watched was not real and it has little connection with your own cycling experience.

I completely disagree. There are still good tactics being played, even with doped riders. I think you can learn a lot from watching others attack and make their moves that you can use in you own racing. You can't really compare amateur racing to the pros even without doping in any other way.

In another post someone said that they were disappointed with Rebellin because his Classics triple was his most watched DVD whilst using the trainer. I'd be interested to know if people feel strongly enough that they would actually stop watching it? I don't think I'd stop, I haven't stopped watching Hell on Wheels because I know they were all doping.

As for Lance, yeah I get a bit sick of people raving about him but if it makes more people love the sport and I get less beer bottles thrown at me as a result I'm willing to put up with hearing about him more than I'd like.

 

[biker jk]

You will probably get bashed on this thread, but for the most part I agree with you. It's not just LA, though. Pretty much anybody that is mentioned as being strong or having a good race will eventually be accused.

You might find the ignore function useful. You can use it to block known trolls and those who don't add anything constructive and simply want to stir s**t up. It will save you a bunch of aggravation if you never even have to see their garbage.

See you in the Giro thread!

Of course, it's much easier to ignore the inconvenient reality that the peleton is doping lest your viewing entertainment is spoiled. I'm afraid I can't keep my head in the sand like so many others. I enjoy watching fiction on TV but not when it's professional cycling.

 

[Jasper]

Does this forum actually have some sort of moderation?

I understand this is an American based website/forum, and the content is therefore pretty American oriented. Lance Armstrong is American, he rides for Astana, and I get that it all evokes a lot of discussion, speculation and emotion. But the thread starter is right. Is that really all there is to cycling? Isn't is peculiar that there's only one single thread for one of the biggest stage races of the season, whereas there's five new threads every day about the same old Lance/Astana/doping topics, which always end up the same predictable way? And it's not just that. Nearly every other topic eventually gets polluted with the same crap. Yes, it's a reality in cycling, but no, not everybody has the need to voice such a strong opinion on it. It's a bit sad that such a popular and global cycling website launches a forum, and it ends up being a playground for a small elite group that pushes its agenda on all other members and floods the forum with what is in essence only a tiny tiny fraction of the world of cycling. This does not represent the cyclingnews website and its content at all, and as far as I'm concerned it makes this forum pretty unattractive for ye random cycling fan. I'm not saying these discussions have no place here, but I really feel they should be limited (to a few threads, or maybe even a separate subforum) and moderated properly so they don't stand in the way of other cycling discussion.

Also, it's pretty ironic that a lot of people here are denouncing Lance's omnipresence and influence in cycling, but in turn they're constantly feeding him with attention and keep making a bigger deal out of him than he actually is...

Just my 2 cents

 

[tashimi76]

I understand this is an American based website/forum, and the content is therefore pretty American oriented.

Isn't is a UK owned site these days? Hence the UK spelling of words like 'programme'. I think it used to be Australian. I imagine that there are a large proportion of Americans that access the site and the forum though.

 

[davidg]

I like cycling!

Yeah, pity those poor fools who want to watch a real sporting competition instead of a contest determined by who has the best doctor, who is willing to take the most risks with their future health, and who can pay the biggest bribe to the UCI. How dare they pine for a fair sport. It is so much easier to pretend that riders who would have never placed in the top ten of the TdF without dope are great champions.

OK. This is where I have a confession. At the weekend I took something to make me ride stronger.

I took the bike off the hook in the garage
I took hold of the handlebars and
I took myself down the road for 5 hours

then the next day I repeated on the basis that I might improve. Along the way, I went through great countryside, talked to friends and smelt the roses.

.. and if there was a pro bike race on TV that night I would have watched that too.

So forgive me if I am naive, but I believe that across the globe there are thousands doing the same, many of them are pro's. Yes there are some that cheat, just as they do in every sport and every walk of life. You don't have to approve or condone doping, I certainly don't, but I don't let the fact that there are few bad apples, spoil what I enjoy. Nor do I hide my head in the sand. It is called 'a balanced view'.

If it really is too much for you to take, get over it and find another sport and another forum to fill unless you have something new and constructive to add.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I understand this is an American based website/forum

Bzzzzzt.

As American as Astana.

FWIW - I detest doping and feel it's ruining our sport. But to ignore it is not going to make it go away, or get better. One can still love the sport and both acknowledge, and fight against with shared information and knowledge, the problems of doping. And I think this goes for a lot of people on this forum.

 

[Jasper]

Bzzzzzt.

As American as Astana.

FWIW - I detest doping and feel it's ruining our sport. But to ignore it is not going to make it go away, or get better. One can still love the sport and both acknowledge, and fight against with shared information and knowledge, the problems of doping. And I think this goes for a lot of people on this forum.

My mistake then

But that doesn't change my point of view: is it really necessary to shift the focus of this forum to that one small fraction and aspect of cycling? This is not http://www.cyclingmessiah.com, is it? Not willing to let every cycling discussion end up in a cynical doping discussion is not the same as not caring about it or ignoring it. This is not even a fundamental discussion to me, it only concerns a more practical organisation and moderation of the forum in order to keep it attractive for cycling fans whose main concern or interest isn't doping/astana/armstrong.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

These points have actually been discussed quite a bit. Do a search back a page or two and look for threads, and a poll on whether there should be a forum specifically dedicated to doping, and how many normal threads are hijacked and end up being about doping.

 

[pmcg76]

I agree with the original poster, I have posted a few new threads not related to doping or Lance but they get pushed to the second page very quickly. I am not innocent of commenting on doping/Lance threads but I try to avoid them as much as I can. The only non-doping/Lance threads that have lasted were the Team kit thread/Favourite Quotes which have been two of the most enjoyable threads to read.

I posted a recent one on peoples thoughts on the first half of the season, something I felt a lot of people would have an opinion on. It got about 8/9 responses. Then the Rebellin story broke & the Lance Gila circus began. My thread was quickly relegated to the second page, out of sight, out of mind.

It just seems everytime we move away from doping or Lance, something happens that brings doping or Lance back to the headlines. It is a sad state of affairs but perhaps unavoidable. The minute Lance announced his comeback, I knew it was going to be a cricus with most of the attention focused on him rather than the sport.

I mean, Eurosport have an entire programme dedicated to Lance and his comebcak in which they unbelievably describe him as the greatest cyclist ever. I wish they would use this time to show more live cycling instead.

As for the doping issue, it will always be a issue for debate as long as it continues although some people on the forum do focus on it too much and seek to just antagonise other pople.

 

[tifosa]

Do I believe Armstrong has doped?
Yes.
Can I prove it in a court of arbitration?
No.
Do I believe he is the greatest cyclist ever?
No. Not even top ten material.
Will discussing this topic change my mind?
Probably not. But trolls et al will be sure to bait me and take their collective best shots.
Do I believe cycling has a systemic doping and image problem?
Yes.
Will discussion of cycling's dirty reputation on any public cycling forum lead to a sea change?
Probably not. But trolls et al will be sure to bait me and take their collective best shots.


****! It's SPORTS, people. As with any sport, or any good story for that matter, to make it compelling, there needs to be villains and heros.

And, as is true on most forums, there have to be crusaders and trolls.


As you were.

 

[jaylew]

Of course, it's much easier to ignore the inconvenient reality that the peleton is doping lest your viewing entertainment is spoiled. I'm afraid I can't keep my head in the sand like so many others. I enjoy watching fiction on TV but not when it's professional cycling.

The old "head in the sand", huh? Give me a break. At this point, I wouldn't be overly surprised to hear about any rider testing positive. Most of us know that there are riders who are doping. Personally, I believe most riders who have been in the peloton for several years have doped at some point in their career. It's another thing altogether to assume that every rider is currently doping and every win is dope-fueled and to bring up that fact in every thread.

So, I take it, you don't even watch the sport. Why are you here?

 

[jaylew]

Not willing to let every cycling discussion end up in a cynical doping discussion is not the same as not caring about it or ignoring it.

Exactly. The whole post was good, btw.

 

[SpeedWay]

Does this forum actually have some sort of moderation?


Also, it's pretty ironic that a lot of people here are denouncing Lance's omnipresence and influence in cycling, but in turn they're constantly feeding him with attention and keep making a bigger deal out of him than he actually is...

Just my 2 cents

LOL. I also get a good laugh that most of the OP's that start threads about LA and doping(such as this one) are "not pro Lance" i.e. the starter of this thread. Then the usual "not pro Lance" suspects chime in and go on to complain how everyone is talking about LA and doping. I wonder if these posters have a mirror, or at least a pot and kettle.

 

[ElChingon]

Its part of the news currently on for Cycling. Yes Lance, yes Doping.

If it were to go away we'd stop, or if something were to override it. You can't stop whats happening. Just roll with it and keep that chin up, in a year or two it will go away, well the Lance stuff anyway.

Remember when the original OP news broke and we were all guessing the names, that was fun and lasted for some time, the guesses were spot on too! Yea, that went on for a real long time, didn't it just pop up again early this year? Now its gone! Time to bring it up?

 

[TrapperJohn]

Let's put doping in perspective.

Most pro sports that emphasize strength or endurance have PED usage. It all comes down to money: better performance = more money, and with strength or endurance, you can boost that artificially as opposed to a sport like golf, where it's more skill than endurance. Even sports like baseball that mix strength and motor skills have a PED problem, a serious one. A-Rod is sinking over PED usage, and he was the shining star.

In the 80's and 90's, cycling began to draw more attention, more fans, more ad revenues. However, cycling was still naive in the ways of Big Sport. Witness Puerto - only cyclists were named, not the football (soccer) and tennis stars that were also clients of Fuentes, two sports where endurance counts for a lot. That got hushed up real quick, no doubt aided by the WC being held in Spain the year Puerto broke. You want another WC in Spain, you'd better shut your trap about the football players. And so they did.

The bigger, better financed sports aren't necessarily cleaner, just better about keeping it quiet. Cycling was the perfect patsy, complete with a bumbling and inept governing organization: don't watch it because they're all dirty. Watch tennis or football or basketball instead, and keep the ad revenue flowing to them. They're clean. Right?

It's not the sport that's corrupt, it's the money, and the lengths people will go to get it and keep it. Millions in ad revenue at stake, we don't need this upstart cycling cutting into our money.

The fact that top cyclists are still being nailed (Rebellin) says that it hasn't stopped. The fact that top cyclists are nailed at all says that they're trying, which is more than the more popular sports can say. So while it's not a perfect picture, the CERA surprise shows that they're getting better at keeping it under control.

My feeling is: you can swill yourself with negative thoughts, or you can realize that the situation is improving, and contrasts rather pleasantly with the big dollar sports. At least we've taken the blinders off. This, of course, doesn't count the habitual negativists, the conspiracy theory freaks, and those with an axe to grind against a particular rider, or team, or nationality.

So enjoy the Giro. It may not be totally clean, but it's probably cleaner than most sports.

 

[BigBoat]

So enjoy the Giro. It may not be totally clean, but it's probably cleaner than most sports.

Based on what I've learned, I have to disagree. I think many sports like Hockey and WWE fighting are MUCH cleaner. They dont know the benefits in those sports or they dont need it (like for a Goalie.)

Every drug in endurance sport is peanuts compared to getting a high body hemoglobin. Autologous blood transfusions have not been stopped, and 02 carrying drugs havnt either. The stuff that really makes a difference hasnt been stopped at ALL. Somebody might get a 5% boost in FTP power (all out 60 minutes) from a HGH, Insulin. But they might get 30% more from autologous blood doping and 02 carriers like Actovegin, Hemopure, oxyglobin. These drugs cant be used, but there are others just like them constantly being developed.

NOBODY will finish this Giro clean by the way... Clean riders no matter how talented would be outside the top 50 and probably a DNF from the timecut...

You can get withing 45 minute of the winner in a race like Adriatico or Paris-Nice, but not in a Grand Tour with repetitive mountains over 3 weeks. Too many guys blood doping with their own blood!

 

[pmcg76]

Is BigBoat really a robot?

Every post seems to be exactly(more or less) the same, even his post on the Simeoni thread. Not saying he is wrong on his opinions but whats the point of repeating the exact same thing time after time. Doping with their own blood, performance value testing, all doing it etc, etc.

OMG, I even remember his posts of the top of my head. I have read it so many times, I would like to hear something constructive being offered even if I dont agree or if its just to point out cycling is dirty, why does Big Boat bother following the post at all.

Would love a reply without the above listed items.

 

[BikeCentric]

Let's put doping in perspective.

Most pro sports that emphasize strength or endurance have PED usage. It all comes down to money: better performance = more money, and with strength or endurance, you can boost that artificially as opposed to a sport like golf, where it's more skill than endurance. Even sports like baseball that mix strength and motor skills have a PED problem, a serious one. A-Rod is sinking over PED usage, and he was the shining star.

In the 80's and 90's, cycling began to draw more attention, more fans, more ad revenues. However, cycling was still naive in the ways of Big Sport. Witness Puerto - only cyclists were named, not the football (soccer) and tennis stars that were also clients of Fuentes, two sports where endurance counts for a lot. That got hushed up real quick, no doubt aided by the WC being held in Spain the year Puerto broke. You want another WC in Spain, you'd better shut your trap about the football players. And so they did.

The bigger, better financed sports aren't necessarily cleaner, just better about keeping it quiet. Cycling was the perfect patsy, complete with a bumbling and inept governing organization: don't watch it because they're all dirty. Watch tennis or football or basketball instead, and keep the ad revenue flowing to them. They're clean. Right?

It's not the sport that's corrupt, it's the money, and the lengths people will go to get it and keep it. Millions in ad revenue at stake, we don't need this upstart cycling cutting into our money.

The fact that top cyclists are still being nailed (Rebellin) says that it hasn't stopped. The fact that top cyclists are nailed at all says that they're trying, which is more than the more popular sports can say. So while it's not a perfect picture, the CERA surprise shows that they're getting better at keeping it under control.

My feeling is: you can swill yourself with negative thoughts, or you can realize that the situation is improving, and contrasts rather pleasantly with the big dollar sports. At least we've taken the blinders off. This, of course, doesn't count the habitual negativists, the conspiracy theory freaks, and those with an axe to grind against a particular rider, or team, or nationality.

So enjoy the Giro. It may not be totally clean, but it's probably cleaner than most sports.

Great post TrapperJohn.