is yates right about more pressure being on andy/cuddles?

Dec 4, 2009
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in the interview on velonews, Yates says more pressure is on Andy and Cuddles than on AC. do you agree?

for myself, i said it myself the other day to friends - Andy and Cuddles have more pressure for sure. Now there's simply no excuse for either to not be on the top if the podium this year.
Andy has been yapping for a year about his bad shifting and he's got to put up or, hopefully, just shut up already.
And Cuddles can beat Andy in any TT, so he's in the drivers seat for sure.
I feel bad for both of them too - no excuses for not winning, and even with a win there will always be the asterisk -> they didn't really beat AC. AC was in a tough Giro and had bad luck in a crash and a poorly applied 3k rule.

All that said, I don't really believe in either of those two as GT people. I think they'll only win when nobody else is around as a true contender. Andy cannot TT, Cuddles always loses his legs in one or two stages. If AC has 80% if his giro form, he might well make up the missing time and win this yet. And then I can't imagine Cuddles' despair or what whining we might hear from baby boy Andy.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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lostincosmos said:
in the interview on velonews, Yates says more pressure is on Andy and Cuddles than on AC. do you agree?

for myself, i said it myself the other day to friends - Andy and Cuddles have more pressure for sure. Now there's simply no excuse for either to not be on the top if the podium this year.
Andy has been yapping for a year about his bad shifting and he's got to put up or, hopefully, just shut up already.
And Cuddles can beat Andy in any TT, so he's in the drivers seat for sure.
I feel bad for both of them too - no excuses for not winning, and even with a win there will always be the asterisk -> they didn't really beat AC. AC was in a tough Giro and had bad luck in a crash and a poorly applied 3k rule.
All that said, I don't really believe in either of those two as GT people. I think they'll only win when nobody else is around as a true contender. Andy cannot TT, Cuddles always loses his legs in one or two stages. If AC has 80% if his giro form, he might well make up the missing time and win this yet. And then I can't imagine Cuddles' despair or what whining we might hear from baby boy Andy.
I agree, especially with Andy, not so much Cadel. Cadel has never really been able to compete on the same level of Contador, at least not in the past two to three years.

Andy has talked and talked about how he would have won last year if not for chaingate (Though he does forget other earlier incidents that shall remain nameless)

He now has the benefit of time on Contador going into the sharper end of racing. He needs to back up his mouth with his legs, he has said he can climb with/drop Alberto. Now go out and show it. It you indeed can.

Also in regards to the bolded, that is false, the 3KM rule was applied perfectly and in compelte compliance of the rule, if you crash/have a mechanical in the last 3KM of a flat stage you get the ST as the group you were with.

Alberto did not crash or have a mechanical in the last 3KM therefore there is no reason at all he should have been givent he same time as the group that did, that would just be stupid and a poor application of the rule.

If you want to debate the "worthiness" of the rule, that is another debate altogether.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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khodder said:
I agree, especially with Andy, not so much Cadel. Cadel has never really been able to compete on the same level of Contador, at least not in the past two to three years.

Andy has talked and talked about how he would have won last year if not for chaingate (Though he does forget other earlier incidents that shall remain nameless)

He now has the benefit of time on Contador going into the sharper end of racing. He needs to back up his mouth with his legs, he has said he can climb with/drop Alberto. Now go out and show it. It you indeed can.

Also in regards to the bolded, that is false, the 3KM rule was applied perfectly and in compelte compliance of the rule, if you crash/have a mechanical in the last 3KM of a flat stage you get the ST as the group you were with.

Alberto did not crash or have a mechanical in the last 3KM therefore there is no reason at all he should have been givent he same time as the group that did, that would just be stupid and a poor application of the rule.

If you want to debate the "worthiness" of the rule, that is another debate altogether.
No, they did go outside the rules actually.

Several unaffected riders were given the 6 second time despite finishing well done on that, including a large bunch at 19 seconds.

That is completely ultra vires and was only done to prevent an unfair disadvantage to people sat on their **** 2 km back down the road.

The Commies use fairness as an excuse to make arbitrary rulings on some occasions, but not others. Combined with the daft sprint rulings, they're having a pretty terrible tour. What a shock that the worst thing about this race is the only bit provided by the UCI.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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I don't agree with Yates' thinking-- and I also don't see Cadel as being in the catbird's seat just yet. Say what you will about Andy, but he's certainly not one to put pressure on himself. For him to have time in hand on Contador this early, no crashes, two other teammates in the top ten, and the strongest team top-to-bottom in the whole race still intact and at full strength around him-- these are all things that reduce the pressure on him. Plus, I think he's planned his peak better than either AC or Cadel. People jumped all over him for lacking form in the Tour de Suisse, but if he comes golden in the third week of the Tour then he'll look pretty smart.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Lots of pressure on Andy. He needs to deliver. He's only got an LBL podium to show for his season so far and now he's got a 90 second lead on AC, who's already done the Giro. It's almost now or never really.

Cadel. No, not really. No-one had as any better than 3rd pre-Tour. He's won a stage and he's won T-A and Romandie already this season. After the last two years, I think he'll be happy just to have a clear run at the race.
 
Contador already has a GT and a plethora of other wins under his belt this year, in addition to a total of 6 GTs. I would think the pressure to win is higher on his rivals, who, other than Basso, have no Grand Tours to their names.
 
May 13, 2009
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Of course there's more pressure on Andy and Cadel than on AC. Bertie has already won the TdF a few times. This year he tries the Giro/TdF to see if he can. It's an experiment which might work or not, and I don't think anybody will fault him if it doesn't. If Bertie cared to do the TdF 7 times, or however often, he wouldn't ride the Giro first.

What about Andy? He has very little to show for this season. He never won a Tour. All of his preparation for the season focused on this one single goal.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Both Cadel and Andy planned their 2011 schedule with the Tour de France as their main objective. As in winning it, not just showing up and riding well. So there is already tremendous pressure on them. Especially in week one when the peloton is together and riding like nervous stallions. The week one plan for Andy was to stay out of trouble - so far so good. Cadel's plan was similar but to take advantage of a parcours that suited his strengths and maybe grab a stage win. So far so good. They are six stages in and have an unexpected gap on their most dangerous rival. That doesn't add to the pressure they already face. I think they're fine.
 
Apr 28, 2009
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Evans is having a great season and hardly anyone expects him to fight for the win. Andy, on the other hand, hasn't shown anything and is expected to fight for the win. Contador has shown numerous times that he is by far the greatest GT rider in his generation.

So the pressure is all on Andy...
 
Jun 23, 2009
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It's simple -- Bjarne Riis knows everything about Andy and can tell Alberto what he needs to know. Kim Anderson doesn't know enough about Alberto to tell Andy.
Cadel is a good rider but he doensn't get younger.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Moose McKnuckles said:
Contador already has a GT and a plethora of other wins under his belt this year, in addition to a total of 6 GTs. I would think the pressure to win is higher on his rivals, who, other than Basso, have no Grand Tours to their names.
And Vino. If you count him as a rival.

Just 3 GT winners on the start list is quite poor really. Still, Saur are justifying being picked over Geox.
 
Oct 26, 2009
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2wheels said:
I don't agree with Yates' thinking-- and I also don't see Cadel as being in the catbird's seat just yet. Say what you will about Andy, but he's certainly not one to put pressure on himself. For him to have time in hand on Contador this early, no crashes, two other teammates in the top ten, and the strongest team top-to-bottom in the whole race still intact and at full strength around him-- these are all things that reduce the pressure on him. Plus, I think he's planned his peak better than either AC or Cadel. People jumped all over him for lacking form in the Tour de Suisse, but if he comes golden in the third week of the Tour then he'll look pretty smart.
Dude, when you run your mouth like Baby Schleck, there is pressure. Contador, who has a much more impressive record than Schleck, has never talked the **** that Schleck does.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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lostincosmos said:
And Cuddles can beat Andy in any TT, so he's in the drivers seat for sure.
No he's not in the drivers seat. There's one TT but remind me how many mountain stages are there again? Yeah....
 
Pressure only matters when it leads to riders making stupid mistakes. It's hard to believe Schleck could make more stupid mistakes than he made last year but who knows. Leopard-Trek don't fill me with much confidence tactically based on what we've seen so far this season but I don't see many (any) mistakes from them or BMC in this race so far.

This race so far it's Contador getting caught riding too far from the front, having crashes / mechanical issues and using up energy to try to make minimal gains in the first week of a Tour. Maybe he's got so much in hand that it stems from over-confidence and none of these things will matter when he hammers them all in the Pyrenees ... who knows
 
Dec 4, 2009
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khodder said:
If you want to debate the "worthiness" of the rule, that is another debate altogether.
well the reason i said it was mis-applied is that it's meant to protect andy schleck from falling at 2.5k to go during the lead up to the sprint craziness. but if you crash at 9k to go, are 35 seconds down and are held up by a crash that had nothing to do with them at 2.5k for another 30 seconds, it would seem that not applying the rule to that second group as well is the inconsistent path. sanchez and ac really are only 35 seconds down on the group, but their time shows more. a shame i think.


Apollonius said:
No he's not in the drivers seat. There's one TT but remind me how many mountain stages are there again? Yeah....
a fair point, really. Cuddles will have to really not have the off day he always seems to have. that said, he'll take 1:30 out of Andy on the 1 TT that does exist. so if he doesn't crack, i think he's sitting rather pretty right now.
 
Every stages that passes and Evans is still firmly seated higher up in the gc than his opposition increases the pressure that he's under. Unlike Andy though, Evans speaks of his long held dream of winning the Tour and not having given up hope, while Andy speaks with a sense of entitlement and inevitability as if it, a Tour win, is something promised or, in his opinion, something that was unfairly snatched from his grasp. He's spoken candidly bout what he thinks will be the potential weakness of his primary rival and his team as a result of their Giro participation.

For Andy, it his race to lose and the pressure to win must be smothering him. The self-proclaimed "best climber in the world" was dropped on a Cat 3 climb by a sprint specialist. Quite the humbling experience after he had the audacity to critique an opponent's cycling accumen who just so happens to have 6 grand tour wins on his palmares to Andy's zero. One day you're a genius and the next you're skulking back to your bus wondering what the hell just happened. Andy's voice has been heard above all the other contenders when it came to talking up their chances for victory and with that comes the biggest burden of pressure.

Really the pressure is on all those who call themselves contenders. With Contador coming off of a grueling Giro, the expectation is that he can't be at the level of Tour 2009 and not even Tour 2010, so he has to be vulnerable. These are reasonable expectations but with them comes the pressure to make them a reality. We have yet to reach the mountains and until then we won't know the toll that the Giro took out of Contador and his teammates that shared in his victory.

The only pressure Contador is under (other than the pending CAS decision) is trying to achieve something that is relatively rare in modern cycling and while to fail at this task may delight many it is still the attempted undertaking after such a challenging Giro that IMO should be respected.
 
Seeing Andy party at the ToC this year & at last years Vuelta shows a boy yet to grow up. I mean it's May and he's out all night drinking before a stage. If O'Grady was the mentor he thinks he is he wouldn't take young Shleck on benders during a race. Leopard are letting him get away with way too much.

Contador maybe a lot of things but one thing for sure is his dedication. After all the issues with Lance etc. he showed even when under extreme pressure he can psychologically destroy someone. I think Armstrong still thinks about how Alberto killed him on the road & in the mind.

With that on mind Shleck really doesn't stand a chance. Frank is more grown up but doesn't have the talent of Andy.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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Angliru said:
Every stages that passes and Evans is still firmly seated higher up in the gc than his opposition increases the pressure that he's under. Unlike Andy though, Evans speaks of his long held dream of winning the Tour and not having given up hope, while Andy speaks with a sense of entitlement and inevitability as if it, a Tour win, is something promised or, in his opinion, something that was unfairly snatched from his grasp. He's spoken candidly bout what he thinks will be the potential weakness of his primary rival and his team as a result of their Giro participation.

For Andy, it his race to lose and the pressure to win must be smothering him. The self-proclaimed "best climber in the world" was dropped on a Cat 3 climb by a sprint specialist. Quite the humbling experience after he had the audacity to critique an opponent's cycling accumen who just so happens to have 6 grand tour wins on his palmares to Andy's zero. One day you're a genius and the next you're skulking back to your bus wondering what the hell just happened. Andy's voice has been heard above all the other contenders when it came to talking up their chances for victory and with that comes the biggest burden of pressure.

Really the pressure is on all those who call themselves contenders. With Contador coming off of a grueling Giro, the expectation is that he can't be at the level of Tour 2009 and not even Tour 2010, so he has to be vulnerable. These are reasonable expectations but with them comes the pressure to make them a reality. We have yet to reach the mountains and until then we won't know the toll that the Giro took out of Contador and his teammates that shared in his victory.

The only pressure Contador is under (other than the pending CAS decision) is trying to achieve something that is relatively rare in modern cycling and while to fail at this task may delight many it is still the attempted untaking after such a challenging Giro that IMO should be respected.
That's a great assessment.
IMO it's not the amount of pressure that's the factor but how each contender deals with it. As you point out AS has never won a GT nor had the advantage so early that he does now, so yep it's his tour to lose, will be interesting to see how he copes with that especially if he loses any key team mates along the way....
 
Dec 29, 2009
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I don't agree with Yates' thinking-- and I also don't see Cadel as being in the catbird's seat just yet.

cadel is 34. who was the last guy to win the tour at 34? nevertheless Cadel is a runner-up but i do think he can win. rodent-boy, on the other hand, has no more excuses, he wanted his own team and even got thrown off of the vuelta by riis last year.

he didn't do jack all year and has been spotted 1.5 minutes. he'd better win.

erader
 
Angliru said:
Every stages that passes and Evans is still firmly seated higher up in the gc than his opposition increases the pressure that he's under. Unlike Andy though, Evans speaks of his long held dream of winning the Tour and not having given up hope, while Andy speaks with a sense of entitlement and inevitability as if it, a Tour win, is something promised or, in his opinion, something that was unfairly snatched from his grasp. He's spoken candidly bout what he thinks will be the potential weakness of his primary rival and his team as a result of their Giro participation.

For Andy, it his race to lose and the pressure to win must be smothering him. The self-proclaimed "best climber in the world" was dropped on a Cat 3 climb by a sprint specialist. Quite the humbling experience after he had the audacity to critique an opponent's cycling accumen who just so happens to have 6 grand tour wins on his palmares to Andy's zero. One day you're a genius and the next you're skulking back to your bus wondering what the hell just happened. Andy's voice has been heard above all the other contenders when it came to talking up their chances for victory and with that comes the biggest burden of pressure.

Really the pressure is on all those who call themselves contenders. With Contador coming off of a grueling Giro, the expectation is that he can't be at the level of Tour 2009 and not even Tour 2010, so he has to be vulnerable. These are reasonable expectations but with them comes the pressure to make them a reality. We have yet to reach the mountains and until then we won't know the toll that the Giro took out of Contador and his teammates that shared in his victory.

The only pressure Contador is under (other than the pending CAS decision) is trying to achieve something that is relatively rare in modern cycling and while to fail at this task may delight many it is still the attempted untaking after such a challenging Giro that IMO should be respected.
that pretty much sums it all up.
definately Andy's to lose now
unfortunately, Cuddles will most likely implode at some point in the mountains and the only pressure on him is what he puts on himself
 
Oct 12, 2010
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No asterisks required

So let me get this logic right...

lostincosmos said:
I feel bad for both of them too - no excuses for not winning, and even with a win there will always be the asterisk -> they didn't really beat AC. AC was in a tough Giro and had bad luck in a crash and a poorly applied 3k rule.
If Cadel (or Andy) win, and AC comes 3rd or 5th or ..., then Cadel or Andy didn't really win because AC won the Giro?

Makes no sense at all. Do we say that riders that simply did the Tour in the years Cadel (or others) did the Giro-Tour combo deserve an asterisk next to their name as winner-but-not-really-winner?

Rubbish! How about we put other asterisks in there to make allowances for a bad team, or bad luck/crashes? Stop making excuses for el Clenbutolero. He got caught up in a crash and his TTT wasn't good enough. Tough luck - no riding the Tour with a fractured elbow yet. So, he's simply in a position that other riders have faced in years gone by.
 
Oct 12, 2010
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Andy not good enough in ITT

Don't agree.

Archibald said:
that pretty much sums it all up.
definately Andy's to lose now
unfortunately, Cuddles will most likely implode at some point in the mountains and the only pressure on him is what he puts on himself
If it was Andy's to lose, he'd have to pull some ITT form out of his ****. In every ITT I've watched him do, he's been well behind other contenders. He's simply not good enough. And then there's his form...not looking so good this year.
 
Special_oz_ed said:
If it was Andy's to lose, he'd have to pull some ITT form out of his ****. In every ITT I've watched him do, he's been well behind other contenders. He's simply not good enough. And then there's his form...not looking so good this year.
he's got time over his main rival and is expected to be able to put enough time into the rest in the mountains. he's sitting pretty at the moment IF his form comes good in about a week's time, so it's definately his to lose.
 
Dec 4, 2009
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Special_oz_ed said:
So let me get this logic right...

If Cadel (or Andy) win, and AC comes 3rd or 5th or ..., then Cadel or Andy didn't really win because AC won the Giro?

Makes no sense at all. Do we say that riders that simply did the Tour in the years Cadel (or others) did the Giro-Tour combo deserve an asterisk next to their name as winner-but-not-really-winner?

Rubbish! How about we put other asterisks in there to make allowances for a bad team, or bad luck/crashes? Stop making excuses for el Clenbutolero. He got caught up in a crash and his TTT wasn't good enough. Tough luck - no riding the Tour with a fractured elbow yet. So, he's simply in a position that other riders have faced in years gone by.
you didn't get the logic right.
and some of that i'm not touching cuz it just appears to be venting.

but i'll say this - i'm not making excuses. i didn't say AC was deserving of anything or that he *should* win or anything of the sort. I merely stated the obvious - these people want to win against AC with their legs, not with crashes/bad luck. Basso said so himself the other day, so you needn't even take my word for it. had ulrich won that year lancey-poo had the flu, wouldn't everyone have said, "good for jan, but really, he beat a sick opponent so..." so it's not much of a leap to say that, if andy wins, that the victory is a hair less convincing since he was spotted 1:30 by AC from the start. doesn't mean it isn't a good win, just means it's a win against a weakened field.

plus, the TTT wasn't really bad for Saxo. they knew full well they'd lose the time there, just like last year over the cobbles. so, i'm afraid your assessment of it being not good enough simply isn't shared by many of us, nor the team itself.

lastly, had Cuddles come to the Tour in the kind of shape to win, never had a cracked day and was 4th after doing a tough Giro beforehand, i'm guessing when the flak flew about him not winning, you'd have been fine had someone said "well, he had a giro in his legs already so you could understand the missing firepower."

really, you just seem to hate AC or really love Cuddles. fair enough, but don't let it cloud your judgement on everything else.
 

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