• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Itzulia Basque Country 2024, April 1-6

Page 43 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
I appreciate the insight and some historical examples. But I'd be interested to hear about attacking a GC leader when they crash. I'm not talking about the feedzone, tunnel and other traditionally frowned upon times. I keep waiting for Healy to do this and I would support it. I am 100% on Contadors side regarding chaingate. Its not attacking someone who is physically incapable of responding.

Its a tricky situation. In my opinion there are cases where Niabali 'attacks' a fallen Kruiswick, but in my mind, NiIbali put him under pressure purposely and it worked, so of course he should continue. I only followed this sport since the late 90s and one of the reasons I love it is these strange traditions.

A mechanical? Yeah, they should wait. A crash? That usually is the rider's own damn fault

Rog should have been farther front in the peloton.

Princess Primrose Roglic deserved to lose 5 minutes today
 
A mechanical? Yeah, they should wait. A crash? That usually is the rider's own damn fault

Rog should have been farther front in the peloton.

Princess Primrose Roglic deserved to lose 5 minutes today
You're wrong - what do you mean he deserved to lose 5 minutes? Who decides what he 'deserves'? The peloton of course.
I am not saying the peloton HAD to wait. I am saying its good that they did, they took a decision based on a bunch of factors and waited.
If Trek would have lit it up and kept a gap, I wouldn't be mad, just SUPER interested in the dynamics and future repercussions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
I appreciate the insight and some historical examples. But I'd be interested to hear about attacking a GC leader when they crash. I'm not talking about the feedzone, tunnel and other traditionally frowned upon times. I keep waiting for Healy to do this and I would support it. I am 100% on Contadors side regarding chaingate. Its not attacking someone who is physically incapable of responding.

Its a tricky situation. In my opinion there are cases where Niabali 'attacks' a fallen Kruiswick, but in my mind, NiIbali put him under pressure purposely and it worked, so of course he should continue. I only followed this sport since the late 90s and one of the reasons I love it is these strange traditions.

While Jonas waited for Tadej after his crash, Jonas would have been correct to continue since Jonas had Tadej under pressure from dropping him in previous stages.

Like you say - this was a situation with low stakes and the decision was made to wait.
To be candid, I'm not the best person to comment – my perspective is actually fairly limited and I'm going on what I feel like I remembered.

Back in the day, one pretty much "learned" the sport by what the commentators were telling you, at least for an American. The only coverage I saw was the Tour in the summers, and I didn't speak Flemish, so it was mostly listening to my uncles talk about what was happening and hearing some rider interviews in English. And whatever Flemish I could pick up. Some for sure, but any subtlety was lost. I'm sure there are a couple old coots on the forum who were around and who speak the right languages. They can offer more accurate perspective.

But the Armstrong thing felt genuinely new and odd. Like him clumsily trying to figure out what it meant to be the Patron. Same thing when he gifted Ventoux to Pantani. Trying to be gracious, but in reality was insulting a true champion. You don't gift Pantani a climb. Come on.
 
You're right, it has been that way for about the last 20 years. But I have the same perspective as @Extinction. Attacking in feed zones, nature breaks, and some other times has always been frowned upon, and while I think not attacking the yellow jersey was also, it didn't feel like it does now. It felt a lot more cutthroat in the 80s and 90s anyway. Ciapucci would attack in tunnels, feed zones, etc. Pissed people off but there was no penalty, he kept doing it.

But this idea that you wait for a competitor who crashed his own damn self into a ravine was...let's call it "new". And that was either Lance at best trying to be magnanimous, and at worst totally playing head games with Ullrich. I'll let you catch up and destroy you again kinda thing.

Then everyone else got it in their head that you can't attack here, you can't attack there, you always have to wait for the yellow jersey, chaingate, more whining, lots of clutching of pearls, etc, etc.

Today's action I think was more the old school, where the group waited for a race leader in a race where the stakes aren't that high, and he might not have been at fault. I think that's the right thing. But if a rider crashes on a descent (or similar) 'cause they were under pressure? Tough. Pour it on and eliminate them from the race. You attack in yellow and your chain drops? Seeya. Shite happens.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Bernard Hinault crashed in the 85 Tour in the Yellow Jersey and broke his face, nobody waited for him, and yet he won.
 
He deserved to lose 5 minutes because he spent 2 on his ass and then would have lost the additional time having to chase.

Primrose Roglic made a mistake. He did not deserve a free pass for a mistake of his own making
Do you have any better info or video then all of us that you KNOW, Roglič crash is 100% his own fault/mistake?

Roglič didn't ask anyone to wait for him. Peloton decided to do so.
He already lost plenty of races because of crashes and where nobody waited for him.

You are getting kind of silly.
 
At least he can recognize him!!
Actually he can't, he had him in perfect position in stage 1 of Catalunya with 3k or so to go. Hayter was actually 13 minutes down.

No one noticed though because of CK's awesome job calling Stevie Williams (another betting favourite) home, except it was another IPT rider.......

Anyway he did a great job on that Tour of Turkey stage 12 years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tobydawq
Congratulations to Quinten Hermans for winning the stage.

Unfortunately some crashes today. So by the end of stage 3 four out of top five GC contenders already hitting the deck, rather selective race in this regards. Luckily, although bruised, all still in contention. Respect to peloton for not attacking leader of the race in such situation. I do expect some GC action tomorrow and for the racing to heat up. I don't expect all GC riders to wait till Saturday. It's ON!
 
Today's action I think was more the old school, where the group waited for a race leader in a race where the stakes aren't that high, and he might not have been at fault. I think that's the right thing. But if a rider crashes on a descent (or similar) 'cause they were under pressure? Tough. Pour it on and eliminate them from the race. You attack in yellow and your chain drops? Seeya. Shite happens.
Don’t forget Vingegaard waiting for Pogacar 2 years ago. He basically already knew he’d win but still was honorable.
 
Today was rather good example on where, if attacking, you wouldn't gain much friends and the peloton in general wouldn't have it. As you would be going against the ethos of the peloton, breaking the unwritten rule.

If the crash would to happen much deeper in some stage and the decisive GC moves would already be made, then nobody would wait.

As for Jonas waiting for Pogi. That was a personal decision and such decision is left to individual riders as they see it fit. It's more about presenting to the world on who you are as a person than following written/unwritten rules of the peloton. Now Jonas won in the end, if he would not, then such move could have look rather bad. Still, it show class. Although in my opinion you shouldn't over do it, as it could come across as patronising, so sometimes better to just crush the dreams altogether to shatter as porcelain.
 
Last edited:
Don’t forget Vingegaard waiting for Pogacar 2 years ago. He basically already knew he’d win but still was honorable.
For sure. That's how it is now, they're all friends and treat each other well. I feel like young people are a lot nicer to one another than we were in GenX. Sports for us back then were pretty competitive and often not friendly. Now they're very competitive and seemingly quite friendly, most of the time. I think that's cool. Even if I also enjoy and respect the more combative competitive relationships from earlier times like Hinault. That dude was amazing, just super charismatic. Easy to admire and easy to resent. Interesting characters back then. Now its maybe too bland, but I also dig watching these guys compete and have fun instead of being pissed off all the time. Glad they can be friends and still go after each other 100%.
 
I think he crashed right before the finish and got up and rode over the line. But IIRC Lemond had attacked him that day before the crash. I dunno, I'm sure there's video somewhere.

Yes, Lemond was attacking

Hinault was actually holding up the peloton so Lemond could move into second

Of course, that led to the kerfuffle on the Luz Ardiden stage when Lemond was told by a CBS camera man he was several minutes ahead, when in reality he was only 1:15 ahead. CBS got the correct times in the highlight show
 
  • Like
Reactions: red_flanders
I think he crashed right before the finish and got up and rode over the line. But IIRC Lemond had attacked him that day before the crash. I dunno, I'm sure there's video somewhere.
That's true, and then Roache attacked the next day with Lemond on the wheel. At any rate, we could go back to any number of examples of a Big going down and then they race to put him out of contention. It's how it used to be, no "fair play".
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: red_flanders
For me I changed my underwear 5 times during the race,
Del Toro in the front, pulling back the doomed break away..
Del Toro in the front of the climbs not in the back, in trouble..
Del Toro sprinting against Remco ..
Del Toro doing a marginal job of protecting Juan Ayuso as Juan took a gravel nap,Del Toro in front group, and Del Toro there for final sprint.. Happy holidays.. Now to make the day perfect Brandon McNulty and Jay Vine threatening to quit the team and the race and tell the director that with all their heart they want to support Del Toro for the rest of the race..some of this stuff actually happened..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
The rules of waiting for riders who have crashed are simple. They only depend on one question: Did your favorite rider crash?
YES: "It's basic sportsmanship that has been accepted for centuries, if they attack now the cheating bastards will burn in the deepest pits of hell."
NO: "F the moron. Should learn to ride a bike."
Remco is the frostiest ,if that's a word,he does not profess peace and love for everyone, but most of the others have said that they take a certain pride in being friendly with others and not bitter competitors.
Lance said in a recent podcast that it blows his mind how everyone is hugging it out after the race, different teams in a moment of yoga on bikes.. You know that some guys in orange or BH or Kern were like let's drill it!!
 
The rules of waiting for riders who have crashed are simple. They only depend on one question: Did your favorite rider crash?
YES: "It's basic sportsmanship that has been accepted for centuries, if they attack now the cheating bastards will burn in the deepest pits of hell."
NO: "F the moron. Should learn to ride a bike."

This all started with Lance waiting for Ullrich on the Peyresourde

What people forget is that allowed Rubiera and Heras to regain contact, allowing Lance to outnumber Ullrich

Oh, Beloki attacked when Ullrich crashed
 
For me I changed my underwear 5 times during the race,
Del Toro in the front, pulling back the doomed break away..
Del Toro in the front of the climbs not in the back, in trouble..
Del Toro sprinting against Remco ..
Del Toro doing a marginal job of protecting Juan Ayuso as Juan took a gravel nap,Del Toro in front group, and Del Toro there for final sprint.. Happy holidays.. Now to make the day perfect Brandon McNulty and Jay Vine threatening to quit the team and the race and tell the director that with all their heart they want to support Del Toro for the rest of the race..some of this stuff actually happened..
So, this Del Toro character... you like him? Or am i reading too much into it?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Sandisfan
Waiting for the leader when he crashes is correct on all fronts (morally & practically).

It's all well & good saying 'let them race' but there's a massive slippery slope which every DS is well aware of, i.e. if the leader isn't safe when he has a problem, then anything goes. It means if the maillot jaune in the TdF stops for a nature break, why not just get on the front & drop him with 100k to go? After all, he should have gone to the WC before the stage!

That's an extreme theoretical example but the philosophy is the same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ftm and acm
This is the decisive climb of today, with still 8.5km's to go after the top. Also a intermediary sprint right before the climb starts, wonder if someone is actually going to go for it. If they go hard from the start, I would save that energy. Hope to see at least someone attack, most likely Vingegaard, and then we'll see who is able to follow.

https%3A%2F%2Fs3-newsifier.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com%2Fcyclinguptodatecom%2Fimages%2F2024-03%2Fvv-itzulia4leintz-65ff575622e29.png
 
This is the decisive climb of today, with still 8.5km's to go after the top. Also a intermediary sprint right before the climb starts, wonder if someone is actually going to go for it. If they go hard from the start, I would save that energy. Hope to see at least someone attack, most likely Vingegaard, and then we'll see who is able to follow.

https%3A%2F%2Fs3-newsifier.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com%2Fcyclinguptodatecom%2Fimages%2F2024-03%2Fvv-itzulia4leintz-65ff575622e29.png
this is actually easier than I thought, and also on good roads, by the look of it.

Another stage for Hayter! ;)