Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen, the new alpha mutant

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Jumbo won the TdF with the wrong rider.

Vinge will probably come through whatever issue he has & return as strong as he was in July next year but in terms of character he was never a natural born winner or leader. He could of course become that but he's not there yet. A champion must know how to lose but also (& this is often overlooked) know how to win without going crazy or letting victory go to the head.

There's also something else which is entirely speculative but I'll say it anyway: Vingegaard's wife is his literal manager & very experienced (she's much, much older than he is). I can't imagine her sole topic of discussion is about polishing his trophy cabinet.

No, I bet money is a real central conversation right now, i.e. ranging from monetizing the TdF win with sponsorship deals & an increased salary. That latter part is a particularly interesting & potentially explosive topic because we know how frugal Jumbo-Visma is with their rider salaries (Rog & WvA for example aren't on wages which their standing in the sport could merit). I mean Jumbo can't just give Vingegaard Pog type money (6 million a year or so) without WvA probably calling his manager & asking the team to double his own money. And so on.

Vingegaard has also just recently signed up to do a criterium in Singapore schedule late October this year, i.e. Cycling: Tour de France champion Jonas Vingegaard to race in Singapore criterium | The Straits Times

Something no doubt he's going to be paid very well for.
 
Jumbo won the TdF with the wrong rider.

Vinge will probably come through whatever issue he has & return as strong as he was in July next year but in terms of character he was never a natural born winner or leader. He could of course become that but he's not there yet. A champion must know how to lose but also (& this is often overlooked) know how to win without going crazy or letting victory go to the head.

There's also something else which is entirely speculative but I'll say it anyway: Vingegaard's wife is his literal manager & very experienced (she's much, much older than he is). I can't imagine her sole topic of discussion is about polishing his trophy cabinet.

No, I bet money is a real central conversation right now, i.e. ranging from monetizing the TdF win with sponsorship deals & an increased salary. That latter part is a particularly interesting & potentially explosive topic because we know how frugal Jumbo-Visma is with their rider salaries (Rog & WvA for example aren't on wages which their standing in the sport could merit). I mean Jumbo can't just give Vingegaard Pog type money (6 million a year or so) without WvA probably calling his manager & asking the team to double his own money. And so on.

Vingegaard has also just recently signed up to do a criterium in Singapore schedule late October this year, i.e. Cycling: Tour de France champion Jonas Vingegaard to race in Singapore criterium | The Straits Times

Something no doubt he's going to be paid very well for.
Not sure if it's money they're after, but racing the Singapore race looks weird if not.

No one took my bate when I suggested the clinical aspects doesn't have to be the team doing alone...
 
Not sure if it's money they're after, but racing the Singapore race looks weird if not.

No one took my bate when I suggested the clinical aspects doesn't have to be the team doing alone...
I refrained from positing in this topic since the TdF because I didn't actually buy he was having problems (of any real sort) at all. That includes dope guilt as well.

I think the Singapore criterium really does blow the "mental issues" theory put forward by Jumbo & his pr team out of the water because that sort of venture is always purely done for economic reasons.

He wouldn't plan to travel to the other side of the world for sponsorship & media reasons if he wasn't fine with the 'pressure' of his new stardom. That's my opinion.
 
I always take what cyclists and their teams say in the media with a very large pinch of salt. Remember we were told that WVA was doubtful for this years tour with a knee injury less than 2 weeks before the race. Well the rest is history!

Therefore the mental exhaustion for JV may well be true but equally it could be just his way (or his teams) of taking himself out of the spotlight for a while. It wasn't like he had been used to a gradual build up of success in winning smaller races up until his tour victory as even his real performance breakthrough from the previous years tour went very much under the radar.

Part of being a champion at the top of whatever sport is in coping with the spotlight that comes with it. Tiger Woods, Messi, Ronaldo, Federer, Nadal etc all have had the charisma and personality to sustain a level of success and consistency of performance month in month out. I wonder if Vingegaard is going to be a rider that we see turning out in peak form in June/July every year then disappear for the rest of the year. I would have thought that he could have rode the recent Tour of Denmark for instance where he only had to turn up for the fans. On the face of it though he doesn't appear to be as charismatic as say Pogacar who cuts a much more relaxed, outgoing personality.

Given the chequered history of Riis and Rasmussen, I wonder if there are many questions coming from within the Danish media around JVs Tour performances or whether he has found it hard to face an increased level of suspicion. Other than a doping question he faced directly after the Tour time trial which he answered fairly reasonably, there certainly hasn't been very much questioning in comparision to riders such as Froome and Pogacar of recent years. Don't race and make yourself available for interview and you can't be scrutinised by the media to the same degree. If it is simply a part of his personality that he is not comfortable with the spotlight then it doesn't augur well for his ability to sustain success in the longer term because he can no longer turn up as a rider under the radar.
 
I always take what cyclists and their teams say in the media with a very large pinch of salt. Remember we were told that WVA was doubtful for this years tour with a knee injury less than 2 weeks before the race. Well the rest is history!

Therefore the mental exhaustion for JV may well be true but equally it could be just his way (or his teams) of taking himself out of the spotlight for a while. It wasn't like he had been used to a gradual build up of success in winning smaller races up until his tour victory as even his real performance breakthrough from the previous years tour went very much under the radar.

Part of being a champion at the top of whatever sport is in coping with the spotlight that comes with it. Tiger Woods, Messi, Ronaldo, Federer, Nadal etc all have had the charisma and personality to sustain a level of success and consistency of performance month in month out. I wonder if Vingegaard is going to be a rider that we see turning out in peak form in June/July every year then disappear for the rest of the year. I would have thought that he could have rode the recent Tour of Denmark for instance where he only had to turn up for the fans. On the face of it though he doesn't appear to be as charismatic as say Pogacar who cuts a much more relaxed, outgoing personality.

Given the chequered history of Riis and Rasmussen, I wonder if there are many questions coming from within the Danish media around JVs Tour performances or whether he has found it hard to face an increased level of suspicion. Other than a doping question he faced directly after the Tour time trial which he answered fairly reasonably, there certainly hasn't been very much questioning in comparision to riders such as Froome and Pogacar of recent years. Don't race and make yourself available for interview and you can't be scrutinised by the media to the same degree. If it is simply a part of his personality that he is not comfortable with the spotlight then it doesn't augur well for his ability to sustain success in the longer term because he can no longer turn up as a rider under the radar.
I'd say he should just go all in on his "which one is the blue jersey" awkwardness. IMO key to a good persona is taking what's special about a person and make it exaggerated. Just like Rog has done.

Just be that awkward guy and make it your thing and you're gonna end up charismatic in your own way, plus have the perfect sheild to dodge questions.

(Like I said I am cynical about persona and I am a journalist who has done some PR work so there's that :D)
 
I'd say he should just go all in on his "which one is the blue jersey" awkwardness. IMO key to a good persona is taking what's special about a person and make it exaggerated. Just like Rog has done.

Just be that awkward guy and make it your thing and you're gonna end up charismatic in your own way, plus have the perfect sheild to dodge questions.

(Like I said I am cynical about persona and I am a journalist who has done some PR work so there's that :D)
Or alternatively, keep it real, ditch the pretence and be yourself!!

But I completely agree, there is a lot of keeping up appearances for the sake of public profile and image. Sky were massive on PR and I think Jumbo have taken a leaf from the same book. Cultivate an image and a persona that will sell.
 
Reactions: noob
Of course, they are.



I don't agree. He is punchier than Vingegaard, so he gained a few seconds (plus bonuses) in the first week, but in the high mountains there was not one stage where he seemed stronger than Vingegaard. On the contrary, it rather felt as Vingegaard was restraining himself after getting yellow, trying not to spend too much energy by trying to distance Pogacar before Hautacam.



I highly doubt it. Pogacar did not manage to distance Vingegaard one single time, while Vingegaard completely destroyed him on Granon and Hautacam. Moreover, I don't get this narrative of Pogacar wasting too much energy by attacking a lot. Vingegaard had to cover all these attacks, so he basically had to make the same efforts, and still he was way fresher on the final climb.

It's kind of funny how Pogacar responding to all those Jumbo attacks on Galibier is used as an explanation for him beeing cooked at Granon, but yesterday not the same argument seems to apply to Vingegaard. Instead the explanation is the exact opposite, namely that Pogacar was cooked because he had attacked too much. [I know that I'm simplifying a bit because at Galibier Pogacar countered attacks by Vingegaard and Roglic.]

In the mountains Vingegaard was just stronger than Pogacar, it's simple as that.
Yes JV was clearly better than Pogacar, I found Hautacam even more impressive than Granon, there Pogacar was clearly below his best as he was distanced not only by JV but a few other riders as well, plus you have the semi-plausible explanation of him covering the attacks the climb before. At Hautacam it was a more even playing feel and he still didn't stand a chance.

I believe that Pogacar is still the more talented (GT GC) rider though but he wasted a lot of energy during the first week of the Tour (e.g. the Arenberg stage) without gaining more than a few seconds and more importantly, he did a lot of peak shape racing during the early season (UAE, TA, Flanders) while JV was focussing on the Tour.
 
The last couple of TourdeFrance winners (Egan Bernal & Pogacar) were, according to the experts, going to dominate the race for the next decade.
How has that turned out?
Nobody has said that (yet) about Jonas V. Why not?
Do the contributors on here think he will be 'One and Done'? or do you see him winning multiple TourdeFrance's?
Ps. I was just wondering. Who is Jonas V? Did anybody see him coming?
Cant find the post now but in fact, few years back, I believe it was after Bernal won the Tdf and the first strong Vuelta of Pogacar that at some point a random older rider who nobody has taken notice of yet might come around and be better than all of them lol..
 
I think the Singapore criterium really does blow the "mental issues" theory put forward by Jumbo & his pr team out of the water because that sort of venture is always purely done for economic reasons.
Well, it's been pretty well known for years that Vingegaard is struggling with some kind of anxiety. Before important races he would be unable to sleep and eat properly. The Tour of Poland in 2019 is a prime example. Vingegaard won the hardest stage in a superior fashion but then he completely lost it the day after. He also blew his chances in the U23 WC 2018 because he didn't get to sleep or eat.

Vingegaard did one criterium after the Tour and now he is doing one more after season is done. How is this a blow to anything? Come on.
 
Reactions: noob
Well, it's been pretty well known for years that Vingegaard is struggling with some kind of anxiety. Before important races he would be unable to sleep and eat properly. The Tour of Poland in 2019 is a prime example. Vingegaard won the hardest stage in a superior fashion but then he completely lost it the day after. He also blew his chances in the U23 WC 2018 because he didn't get to sleep or eat.

Vingegaard did one criterium after the Tour and now he is doing one more after season is done. How is this a blow to anything? Come on.
Vingegaard won stage 6 of 2019 Tour of Poland in a three way sprint ahead of Sivakov and Hindley. So not quite "superior". But this does prove that Vingegaard was less of a transformation in 2021 than Froome was in 2011. Having said this, those who bring up Froome in relation to Vingo seem like attempts to deflect. Vingo in isolation is suspect enough.

What I will concede is perhaps the suspicion is because he is compared to phenomenon Pogacar who had a far more impressive Palmarès before the 2020 TdF (at 20) than Vingo did before the 2021 TdF (at 24).

The mental anxiety is interesting but there is no greater pressure in cycling than being a GC contender in the yellow jersey and it did not seem to affect Vingegaard this year. He won stage 11 in superior fashion but there was no subsequent collapse like 2019 Poland. After stage 11 he held yellow until Paris after winning again in superior fashion on Hautacam then nearly beating the rampant WvA in the stage 20 TT . Zero physical signs of any mental anxiety? So his minders managed the anxiety until after the TdF was won? Not buying this.
 
Vingegaard won stage 6 of 2019 Tour of Poland in a three way sprint ahead of Sivakov and Hindley. So not quite "superior". But this does prove that Vingegaard was less of a transformation in 2021 than Froome was in 2011. Having said this, those who bring up Froome in relation to Vingo seem like attempts to deflect. Vingo in isolation is suspect enough.

What I will concede is perhaps the suspicion is because he is compared to phenomenon Pogacar who had a far more impressive Palmarès before the 2020 TdF (at 20) than Vingo did before the 2021 TdF (at 24).

The mental anxiety is interesting but there is no greater pressure in cycling than being a GC contender in the yellow jersey and it did not seem to affect Vingegaard this year. He won stage 11 in superior fashion but there was no subsequent collapse like 2019 Poland. After stage 11 he held yellow until Paris after winning again in superior fashion on Hautacam then nearly beating the rampant WvA in the stage 20 TT . Zero physical signs of any mental anxiety? So his minders managed the anxiety until after the TdF was won? Not buying this.
Not sure if he has any issues but as someone who has some anxiety problems I can say that I can deal with it for some time, like when it's really necessary I can get "into the zone". I can't keep this up forever and it takes A LOT of energy though and is truly exhausting.
 
Rumour at the water-cooler is that his anxiety is anxiety over getting bilharzia, which is why he rode at such a thermobiblical pace so as not to be seen anywhere near Chris Froome whose refinding of some form meant Jonas only went faster.

In all seriousness, it is curtains for everyone for years to come once Jumbo come with a strong team to support him. Sky/Froome 2.0 approach basically. Ride everyone to death in the train and let the Fisherman explode on a climb or two and then take more time out of everyone in the TT.
 

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