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Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen, the new alpha mutant

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But not Vroome, Vroome turbo after Ventoux 2013? And you want to criticize others?
No matter how much you might dislike him, Froome is a diversion and completely irrelevant to this thread which is for Vingegaard. We are approaching the 2023 Tour de France and after getting his backside spanked by Pog at PN earlier this season now looks on track to go back to back. Anyway glad to see this thread waking up from its slumber just in time.
 
Has any serious poster claimed he isn't doped to the gills with fishy stuff?

Just like with all other big cyclist, I've just accepted that it is how it is. Also I'll never really blame the cyclist themselves, because they didn't create the system nor would they have had a chance to fight it.
The point is we have posters here wasting time discussing Froome in 2013. Why even bother having the clinic if we can’t keep discussion in threads on topic? Netserk started this thread after stage 11 in last years TdF. Froome is completely irrelevant.

As for accepting, “that’s just how it is”, that is also a slippery slope for the sport. The EPO test and UCI passport were good things even if not perfect. I am a massive Pantani fan and have followed cycling quite closely since the early 90s. But the sport today is not less exciting than the doping free for all which existed before 1999.
 
The point is we have posters here wasting time discussing Froome in 2013. Why even bother having the clinic if we can’t keep discussion in threads on topic? Netserk started this thread after stage 11 in last years TdF. Froome is completely irrelevant.

As for accepting, “that’s just how it is”, that is also a slippery slope for the sport. The EPO test and UCI passport were good things even if not perfect. I am a massive Pantani fan and have followed cycling quite closely since the early 90s. But the sport today is not less exciting than the doping free for all which existed before 1999.
Maybe you're right we have a solemn duty to raise awareness about doping in cycling! If we stray from the task at hand we might never end doping in cycling. We have power here let's use it for good! Let's blow the whistle on that fishy little runt. Ahh you know, what the hell, at least cycling is fun to watch again. I'd rather watch Vingo leading out Laporte or VDP leading out Phillipson or Pogacar and Van Aert make stupid attacks or Alaphillipe generally spazzing out (and who doesn't need a little Rogistomp?) than to have to watch someone who looks like a monkey hiking a watermelon on a bike! Nothing we can do or say here will change any of it. Maybe I'm just jaded from the LA forum wars but screw it I'm just gonna watch some bike racing, at least they all seem to be nice guys.
 
yeah his climbing times at the Tour last year removed all doubt. nobody thinks he's clean.
Not just climbing times. Skeletor is clearly one of the best time trialists in the sport. He looks like an outlier to me?

Stage 20 of last years TdF turned on its head everything I thought I knew about why 60kg climbers are not supposed to rival riders like WvA on flattish time trial courses. That day was crazier than Contador beating Cancellara at Annecy in 2009. And here we are 11 months later and it looks like the same formula is in place to comfortably go back to back - assuming Pog’s injury has hobbled him sufficiently.

Entertaining is not the word which comes to my mind.
 
It still baffles me that this guy is now constantly TTing with the absoute best in the peleton, on all the parcours.. (since 2021)
Not just climbing times. Skeletor is clearly one of the best time trialists in the sport. He looks like an outlier to me?

Stage 20 of last years TdF turned on its head everything I thought I knew about why 60kg climbers are not supposed to rival riders like WvA on flattish time trial courses. That day was crazier than Contador beating Cancellara at Annecy in 2009. And here we are 11 months later and it looks like the same formula is in place to comfortably go back to back - assuming Pog’s injury has hobbled him sufficiently.

Entertaining is not the word which comes to my mind.
It already happened in stage 20 of 2021 TdF, basically same exact profile and results. It doesn’t add up even with doping but I’ve learned to expect it. Something about the top level juice seems to render physics meaningless for TdF champions.
 
No matter how much you might dislike him, Froome is a diversion and completely irrelevant to this thread which is for Vingegaard. We are approaching the 2023 Tour de France and after getting his backside spanked by Pog at PN earlier this season now looks on track to go back to back. Anyway glad to see this thread waking up from its slumber just in time.
Look I was just responding to your post in which you derided some for being lenient on one they fancy, when you do the exact same thing with another because you dig/dug him. It's hypocritical. And I'm not the one who brought up Froome here, but you man. Indeed, as far as I can tell, nobody was discussing Froome until YOU mentioned him. So get off your high horse.

It's evident that Vingo and Jumbo are on a top-notch program. Ex-Rabo knows that the game is won with the best arsenal of tactical and strategic weapons, all the more so now that there is an even bigger Slovenian radioactive fish to fry then the current one in their own ranks. Thank God, however, they found a new super-responder just in time at the Danish fish market. He's not quite as ridiculous (not by a longshot) as your Vroome, Vroomie soaring to improbable heights in the Sky from the lowly depths of the Barloworld, but pro cycling never disappoints. Like Barnum and Bailey!
 
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@Extinction: Just to be clear I have never been a fan of Froome? I just felt that the current Tour de France champion deserved more scrutiny here.

Not sure who you were referring to about my hypocrisy, but I admit I do prefer Pogacar to Vingegaard? Nothing wrong with that. I have never been a fan of Chris Froome.

Sure Pogacar is radioactive but his record for years is nothing like the Froome career trajectory. Vingegaard isn’t either - but he is certainly closer. Vingegaard did almost naught to suggest he might challenge Pog until that 2021 TdF TT. If you check betting odds before the 2021 and 2022 TdFs this also confirms many weren’t expecting him to challenge Pog last year. That stage 20 TT was craziest since Contador Annecy. His rise immediately after Roglic got injured didn’t seem a coincidence.
 
@Extinction: Just to be clear I have never been a fan of Froome? I just felt that the current Tour de France champion deserved more scrutiny here.

Not sure who you were referring to about my hypocrisy, but I admit I do prefer Pogacar to Vingegaard? Nothing wrong with that. I have never been a fan of Chris Froome.

Sure Pogacar is radioactive but his record for years is nothing like the Froome career trajectory. Vingegaard isn’t either - but he is certainly closer. Vingegaard did almost naught to suggest he might challenge Pog until that 2021 TdF TT. If you check betting odds before the 2021 and 2022 TdFs this also confirms many weren’t expecting him to challenge Pog last year. That stage 20 TT was craziest since Contador Annecy. His rise immediately after Roglic got injured didn’t seem a coincidence.
From your post it seemed like what you meant was in accordance with my response. Now that you've clarified your position, although it's still odd you brought up Froome at all, I think most fans today have come to accept that what they watch isn't merely the fruit of excellent genetics, hard work and new equipment performance frontiers, but also chemistry. And so long as a rider and his team doesn't appear as an "affront to all decency," then most won't get all bent out of shape over certain performances by certain riders.

In the case of Froome and Sky, at the time of the former's farcical transformation that inviolable boundry was breached. It was apparent that Sky was the new USPostal with British manners that were deployed with consumate guile to come across as impeccably clean; and this only infuriated more those with a natural aversion to such hypocrisy.

The case of Vingo is different. He was young, clearly talented, even if without the palmarès of some of his already stellar piers, AND he was going up against another, even younger, mutant on an obviously dodgy formation. Vingo, however, showed the stuff he was made of in his very first Tour, not years into an anonymous career to all of a sudden become a world beater on the biggest stage of the sport like Froome. And for whatever reason Jumbo-Visma simply doesn't engender the love-them or hate-them polarity as Sky, who came across as wanting to give lessons on how to get things done "cleanly." Many folks rightly took umbrage with that farce, which Froome clearly personified.

But this isn't to say Vingo hasn't raised eyebrows, only that he isn't the divisive figure that Froome was.
 
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Not just climbing times. Skeletor is clearly one of the best time trialists in the sport. He looks like an outlier to me?

Stage 20 of last years TdF turned on its head everything I thought I knew about why 60kg climbers are not supposed to rival riders like WvA on flattish time trial courses. That day was crazier than Contador beating Cancellara at Annecy in 2009. And here we are 11 months later and it looks like the same formula is in place to comfortably go back to back - assuming Pog’s injury has hobbled him sufficiently.

Entertaining is not the word which comes to my mind.

Looking at his volume I can't believe the Skeletor actually weights 60 kg. Unless he's had metal implants installed (quite plausible).
 
From your post it seemed like what you meant was in accordance with my response. Now that you've clarified your position, although it's still odd you brought up Froome at all, I think most fans today have come to accept that what they watch isn't merely the fruit of excellent genetics, hard work and new equipment performance frontiers, but also chemistry. And so long as a rider and his team doesn't appear as an "affront to all decency," then most won't get all bent out of shape over certain performances by certain riders.

In the case of Froome and Sky at the time of the former's farcical transformation that inviolable boundry was breached. It was apparent that Sky was the new USPostal with British manners that were deployed with consumate guile to come across as impecably clean; and this only infuriated more those with a natural aversion to such hypocrisy.

The case of Vingo is different. He was young, clearly talented, even if without the palmarès of some of his already stellar piers, AND he was going up against another, even younger, mutant on an obviously dodgy formation. Vingo, however, showed the stuff he was made of in his very first Tour, not years into an anonymous career to all of a sudden become a world beater on the biggest stage of the sport like Froome. And for whatever reason Jumbo-Visma simply doesn't engender the love-them or hate-them polarity as Sky, who came across as wanting to give lessons on how to get things done "clearly." Many folks rightly took umbrage with that farce, which Froome clearly personified.

But this isn't to say Vingo hasn't raised eyebrows, only that he isn't the divisive figure that Froome was.
If you check back a few pages you will see I didn’t bring up Froome. It was because others did in the Vingo thread that I interjected.

Thanks for trying to explain Vingo. But pro careers don’t start at the TdF. What had he done before that brief moment on Ventoux in 2021 to give any clue?

Let’s not forget how our collective jaws dropped after Pog stole the 2020 TdF title from Roglic at LPdBF, seems like JV said right, let’s set the record straight - seems they hit paydirt with a super responder?

On the point of what most fans want - I want fair competition. As I mentioned been following this sport since the EPO era and everyone accepted that back then. But few had heard of Vingegaard before 2021.
 
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If you check back a few pages you will see I didn’t bring up Froome. It was because others did in the Vingo thread that I interjected.

Thanks for trying to explain Vingo. But pro careers don’t start at the TdF. What had he done before that brief moment on Ventoux in 2021 to give any clue?

Let’s not forget how our collective jaws dropped after Pog stole the 2020 TdF title from Roglic at LPdBF, seems like JV said right, let’s set the record straight - seems they hit paydirt with a super responder?

On the point of what most fans want - I want fair competition. As I mentioned been following this sport since the EPO era and everyone accepted that back then. But few had heard of Vingegaard before 2021.
I've been following cycling since before the EPO era and was a victim of it in competition. I still love the sport and can go from extremely critical positions to enjoyment. As far as Vingo is concerned, it does seem they got another super responder, who, however, has exceptional genetics. I never thought Froome had exceptional genetics, that he was a complete laboratory fabrication, which his post-Sky/Ineos phase seems to confirm. He's even worse than Barloworld Froome and I refuse to believe the accident caused this.
 
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Froome’s transformation late in his career is an embarrassment to the sport. Put it together with Sky preaching, his positive test and the fact that he was practically unbeatable and it’s all too much to stomach. In the 2020 Giro, G gets injured and TGH steps into the breach, comes from behind and actually wins the Giro (helped by an insane Rohan Dennis performance). In the 2020 tdf, Rog gets ambushed by Pog. JV want to increase their odds of winning the tdf, so they prepare Vingo. Vingo is 2nd in 2021 and wins in 2022 (with help from Rog). They’re all manufactured. Some are more unpleasant than others.
The story has changed from “Should I even watch the tour, Froome is going to win, he has too many advantages” to “I’m going to watch the tour, it should be a good battle between Pog and Vingo”.
 
I've been following cycling since before the EPO era and was a victim of it in competition. I still love the sport and can go from extremely critical positions to enjoyment. As far as Vingo is concerned, it does seem they got another super responder, who, however, has exceptional genetics. I never thought Froome had exceptional genetics, that he was a complete laboratory fabrication, which his post-Sky/Ineos phase seems to confirm. He's even worse than Barloworld Froome and I refuse to believe the accident caused this.
Cheers. Since we are discussing when we started following the sport, as an Aussie I'll share this - Phil Anderson who I was aware of in high school but that was before I started following pro cycling in the early 90s. They made a beer ad about Anderson (linked below - funny:laughing:). I can't overstate how good he was - a pioneer from down under. It must have been way harder back then to make successful career in cycling from Australia. A tough nut. I recall Anderson was riding for Motorola when he retired. Legend.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FImn6mJbVqQ
 
Cheers. Since we are discussing when we started following the sport, as an Aussie I'll share this - Phil Anderson who I was aware of in high school but that was before I started following pro cycling in the early 90s. They made a beer ad about Anderson (linked below - funny:laughing:). I can't overstate how good he was - a pioneer from down under. It must have been way harder back then to make successful career in cycling from Australia. A tough nut. I recall Anderson was riding for Motorola when he retired. Legend.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FImn6mJbVqQ
Yes and we had Lemond.
 
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Stage 20 of last years TdF turned on its head everything I thought I knew about why 60kg climbers are not supposed to rival riders like WvA on flattish time trial courses. That day was crazier than Contador beating Cancellara at Annecy in 2009.
Vingegaard didn't beat Van Aert and it was a more hilly/slower ITT than the Annecy one where Contador actually managed to beat Cancellara.

So how was it crazier than that?

Both yesterday and the two previous Tours, Vingegaard's ITTs have been comparable to those of Contador. No more, no less.
 
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