Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[Cookster15]

De nouvelles révélations sur le monoxyde de carbone empoisonnent l’air du peloton cycliste - Le Temps

Les bénéfices de cette méthode, contestée mais légale, seraient bien plus importants que prévu sur la capacité respiratoire, révèle une étude citée par le magazine «Tour». A Paris, une réunion de crise a précédé la présentation du parcours du Tour de France 2025

www.letemps.ch

According to some articles, carbon monoxide can improve 5% vo2 max, wish can mean more 30 W.

Its in French and behind a paywall. When did CO sniffing start being used - 2020?

The injuries he had, didn't let him explore that as much as pogacar did.

Yet Visma themselves were still saying Vingegaard wouldn't start the Tour if they didn't think he could defeat Pogacar. Even during the PdB climb they were confident they had Pogacar's measure. Below quote is from the team car radio....

....but of course, still a hard fight to drop Pogacar, we need a big pull from Mateo for the first 20 minutes and then Jonas you just have to hold your threshold and we believe he will get into problems ....

So much for that plan. It was still an incredible performance from Vingegaard knowing what he had recovered from.

So maybe Vingegaard explored other "techniques" Pogi didn't? After all, even Vingegaard demolished Pantani's 1998 EPO record by over 2 minutes.

Seemed clear that Visma simply underestimated Pog. Certainly the theory we have been hearing since 2022 that Pog wasn't so good on hot, long and tough stages was debunked on that climb.

 

[snipeheem]

De nouvelles révélations sur le monoxyde de carbone empoisonnent l’air du peloton cycliste - Le Temps

Les bénéfices de cette méthode, contestée mais légale, seraient bien plus importants que prévu sur la capacité respiratoire, révèle une étude citée par le magazine «Tour». A Paris, une réunion de crise a précédé la présentation du parcours du Tour de France 2025

www.letemps.ch

According to some articles, carbon monoxide can improve 5% vo2 max, wish can mean more 30 W.

30 w alone is crazy.. do you believe they „only” sniff this sh** or they are add EPO and etc to that ?

 

[Froome]

Is the source from the peloton or from science?

On Tuesday, the German magazine Tour revealed that the benefits of this method on respiratory capacity (VO2 max) would be much greater than expected, in the order of 5%. Which "allows a water carrier to transform into a winner", concludes the specialist magazine, citing a 2020 American study and recent comments from researchers at the University of Bayreuth.

 

[Froome]

30 w alone is crazy.. do you believe they „only” sniff this sh** or they are add EPO and etc to that ?

According to some articles, carbon monoxide increases EPO, if i'm not wrong.

 

[Cookster15]

A 5% boost in VO2 max (or FTP) won’t enable a water carrier to transform into a winner.

 

[troll hunter]

The study is not really convincing as it was not studied on elite athletes - https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/...c_exposure_to_low_dose_carbon_monoxide.4.aspx

Non elite athletes always get a bigger boost than elite athletes at altitude, so I guess it's the same with CO.

By the way, there may have been some very unfit guys in the placebo group & study leader sells lower-cost CO rebreathers (conflict interest?) - https://bloodtec.de/product-method/ What Pog is alleged to have used, Vingegaard and Israel use a more expensive Danish device.

 

[Salvarani]

Visma the ones who has had a rider that has been caught most recently.

 

[Oldermanish]

Jonas Vingegaard Wasting No Time in Accelerated Tour de France Rebuild: ‘He’s Training, He’s Confident’

Two-time Tour champion Vingegaard already back on the bike and ironing out the wrinkles ahead of a 2025 showdown with Pogačar.

velo.outsideonline.com

The process already begun.


"Jonas is training really well on the bike, but focussing on his strength and conditioning also,” he said. “This means he can start to normalize again after he lost some muscle mass last year."

He might have a prayer if they train him to be stronger at a higher body mass. At the very least condition him to the level of greater strength and then let him train and race his weight to GT levels.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The one way I find CO a wholly unsatisfying explanation is it should simply trigger the bio passport.

But I guess we have to believe it's just CO + expensive lawyers now

The trendy heat adaptation training upping your blood plasma volume will help in that regard + the passport has been killed in court.
The horse racing doping stuff is also plausible to me, would explain why UAE are one of the teams who have figured it out perfectly...

 

[Froome]

He might have a prayer if they train him to be stronger at a higher body mass. At the very least condition him to the level of greater strength and then let him train and race his weight to GT levels.

He just needs to have a normal preparation for the Tour, be healthy, have access to the best clinical things of the moment and then, there is no reason for him to not be again the best GT rider in the world.

Unless you think Pogacar didn’t improved more from 2023 to 2024 comparing between 2020 and 2023 just because he was not training properly, and UAE didn’t had the money to put him in the best clinical programm.

Vingegaard can improve as much as Pogacar in normal conditions, because this wasn't about talent what happened since last year.

This is all ridiculous clinical things since last year.

 

[Divergence]

The study is not really convincing as it was not studied on elite athletes - https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/...c_exposure_to_low_dose_carbon_monoxide.4.aspx

Non elite athletes always get a bigger boost than elite athletes at altitude, so I guess it's the same with CO.

By the way, there may have been some very unfit guys in the placebo group & study leader sells lower-cost CO rebreathers (conflict interest?) - https://bloodtec.de/product-method/ What Pog is alleged to have used, Vingegaard and Israel use a more expensive Danish device.

The study just goes to show how poor scientists MDs are. No idea about statistical analysis...

 

[Oldermanish]

He just needs to have a normal preparation for the Tour, be healthy, have access to the best clinical things of the moment and then, there is no reason for him to not be again the best GT rider in the world.

Unless you think Pogacar didn’t improved more from 2023 to 2024 comparing between 2020 and 2023 just because he was not training properly, and UAE didn’t had the money to put him in the best clinical programm.

Vingegaard can improve as much as Pogacar in normal conditions, because this wasn't about talent what happened since last year.

This is all ridiculous clinical things since last year.

So no one got injured last year? OK, it's all about what you think allowed Pogacar cakewalk.

 

[Cookster15]

If both are uninjured I don’t see Vingegaard beating Pogacar. I still see Vingo as too one dimensional. The hope is he can improve to be better than he was in 2023. He can at least put Pogacar under pressure.

 

[troll hunter]

The study just goes to show how poor scientists MDs are. No idea about statistical analysis...

The guy who did the study sells CO rebreathers, the purpose of the study was probably just to get the conclusion he wanted. Journalists are the bad ones who clickbait and make misleading comments.

If both are uninjured I don’t see Vingegaard beating Pogacar. I still see Vingo as too one dimensional. The hope is he can improve to be better than he was in 2023. He can at least put Pogacar under pressure.

Winning a GT is all about mountain stages, ITT and mental strength. Vingegaard excels in all of these. As Visma is a better organised team than UAE, and Vingegaard is a more disciplined rider than Pog. I'd give the Dane a better chance of winning TdF

 

[Cookster15]

Winning a GT is all about mountain stages, ITT and mental strength. Vingegaard excels in all of these. As Visma is a better organised team than UAE, and Vingegaard is a more disciplined rider than Pog. I'd give the Dane a better chance of winning TdF

I give Pog a better chance because when uninjured Pogacar is simply better than Vingegaard in mountain stages, ITT and even possible gravel sectors. And more disciplined can also be more boring (one dimensional).

 

[troll hunter]

I give Pog a better chance because when uninjured Pogacar is simply better than Vingegaard in mountain stages, ITT and even possible gravel sectors. And more disciplined can also be more boring (one dimensional).

You can call it boring or robotic, but discipline is a positive trait in a three-week race. Two years after the Granon stage, I think Pog has again reached the point where he thinks he's unbeatable no matter what he does. As a result, he almost lost what should have been an easy WC title. He should be more humble, do team tactics and follow them on the stage, instead of racing by feeling.

 

[Nick2413]

The one way I find CO a wholly unsatisfying explanation is it should simply trigger the bio passport.

But I guess we have to believe it's just CO + expensive lawyers now

My question at this point is do lawyers function as that big of a deterrent to even stop all cases from being initiated? An indictment alone would be enough to make some noise.

 

[E_F_]

he almost lost what should have been an easy WC title

Did he though? Really? He was fresh as a daisy afterwards. Running around...

 

[Izzyeviel]

'I never knew carbon Monoxide could be misused' - dude who inhales carbon monoxide for breakfast.

You never know if its just stupidity or complete detachment from reality which causes such statements. Do they have any idea how dumb some of them sound?

 

[snipeheem]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1862206568680346096

.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1862219257930490071

View: https://x.com/mou55981652/status/1862219257930490071

View: https://x.com/mou55981652/status/1862206568680346096

 

[Froome]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1862206568680346096

.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1862219257930490071

View: https://x.com/mou55981652/status/1862219257930490071

View: https://x.com/mou55981652/status/1862206568680346096

UAE couldn't afford it, because they have a small budget.

 

[E_F_]

I thought the Pogster lost because of his fraud coach..?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Refrained from talking about it much since as the whole thing got old after about 20 minutes back in March. Banging on about Pogacar too much wasn't doing any real harm other than cluttering the forum a bit. but as he's talking about doping whilst trying to insinuate that he's an insider, stuff that actually can have a malign influence, this really does need reiterating;

Mou isn't an insider, he has access to no more or less information than anyone on this forum.

 

[Froome]

Mou isn't an insider, he has access to no more or less information than anyone on this forum.

Just a kid with to much time free, to spend all of the day on twitter.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Just a kid with to much time free, to spend all of the day on twitter.

Almost, but he's in his late 30s unfortunately social media has a lot to answer for.