Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard: The Chicken who eats Riis for breakfast

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Have you ever disagreed with a decision any rider has ever made?
Moscon throwing bikes at people might not have been the smartest thing he's ever done...

And in terms of schedule decisions; well... Pinot finishing the Tour - and starting the Vuelta - two years ago wasn't too smart either.

But a decision that's unlikely to result in injury*, I really can't see the issue with.






*Of course, he could still fall at home while working on his new house.
 
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If that was what had happened, then that would have been what had happened. Do you really think we'd have been discussing "If only so and so had been there!" over 30 years later? Do you really think people will be discussing "If only Vingegaard had been there!" over 30 years from now?

And saying that Vingegaard - or any other rider - should do a ride a race just because it's tradition is a *** reason!
But the point is that back then it would NOT have happened, and that made all the difference. So I totally and utterly disagree. And it's ridiculous to deride tradition in the way you are categorically doing, for without the past, which, for better or worse, has built the sport we have today, it simply has no future. And if riders today are earning 6-7 figure contracts, something unheard in the past, it's because of the great legacy they have inherited. Hell, Nibali even gets pissed off when Italian riders snub nationals, because he feels the tricolore simply should be honored. So the only *** reason here is to say, sorry, can't line up at the Worlds, because I'm just not motivated!
 
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Moscon throwing bikes at people might not have been the smartest thing he's ever done...

And in terms of schedule decisions; well... Pinot finishing the Tour - and starting the Vuelta - two years ago wasn't too smart either.

But a decision that's unlikely to result in injury*, I really can't see the issue with.






*Of course, he could still fall at home while working on his new house.
So all scheduling choices are equally good in your opinion (apart from over-racing)?

If that's your one and only and universal and everlasting opinion, then why weigh in on such discussions on a cycling discussion forum, where people with a more nuanced view of how riders could and should prioritise, will invariably disagree with you? Unless of course you see yourself as some self-apointed riders' advocate for some reason.

Your complete disregard for the past seems to me absolutely as absurd as someone thinking Mads Pedersen has made a terrible choice here does to you.
 
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And it's ridiculous to deride tradition in the way you are categorically doing, for without the past that, for better or worse, has built the sport we have today it simply has no future.
Tradition is fine, but not for tradition's own sake.

If that's your one and only and universal and everlasting opinion, then why weigh in on such discussions on a cycling discussion forum, where people with a more nuanced view of how riders could and should prioritise, will invariably disagree with you?
Personally, I don't find "Mmmhhhhh tvadishion" very nuanced. It's almost like there's more to the riders' lives than just cycling.
 
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Not going to Worlds because you're building a house is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
I don't know if it's exactly because he's building a house...

But why would "It's tradition!" be a good reason? Again, how terrible for each rider would the route need to be, for it being "Okay" in all you traditionalists' minds for said rider to skip? Should Froome have wasted a spot for GB in 2016? Should Evans have wasted a spot for Australia in 2011?

But I'll give you a challenge; write an explanation as to why Vingegaard should ride, without using the words "tradition" and "history of the sport".
 
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Tradition is fine, but not for tradition's own sake.



Personally, I don't find "Mmmhhhhh tvadishion" very nuanced. It's almost like there's more to the riders' lives than just cycling.
But I'm not talking about tradition for it's own sake, which would be like we only train or eat in such and such a way, because that's the way it's always been done and that is that (despite new evidence indicating better options). We all know it's blockheade. I thought at least that much was clear. No I'm talking about, as I plainly stated, when it makes sense, because good for the sport, to honor tradition and certain ways of the past, which hardly means being stuck in the past.
 
No I'm talking about, as I plainly stated, when it makes sense, because good for the sport, to honor tradition and certain ways of the past, which hardly means being stuck in the past.
Seems like riding doesn't make sense to Vingegaard... saying that "The Tour Winner should ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Simply because "Well, that's how it used to be done is exactly tradition for tradition's own sake.
 
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I don't know if it's exactly because he's building a house...

But why would "It's tradition!" be a good reason? Again, how terrible for each rider would the route need to be, for it being "Okay" in all you traditionalists' minds for said rider to skip? Should Froome have wasted a spot for GB in 2016? Should Evans have wasted a spot for Australia in 2011?

But I'll give you a challenge; write an explanation as to why Vingegaard should ride, without using the words "tradition" and "history of the sport".
Oh, I actually don't care about Vingegaard not going. He probably isn't in shape, either.

It's Mads Pedersen I have a problem with.
 
I don't know if it's exactly because he's building a house...

But why would "It's tradition!" be a good reason? Again, how terrible for each rider would the route need to be, for it being "Okay" in all you traditionalists' minds for said rider to skip? Should Froome have wasted a spot for GB in 2016? Should Evans have wasted a spot for Australia in 2011?

But I'll give you a challenge; write an explanation as to why Vingegaard should ride, without using the words "tradition" and "history of the sport".
Clearly we're not talking about a pan flat course suited on to pure sprinters. Then it would be alright for the winner of the Tour not to show up. But this isn't the case, and if Pog and Remco are riding, no excuses (not even building a new house), you line up. This is when respecting tradition is good, because it serves the greater interests of the sport (funny how the past, tradition, is both a lesson to build upon as well teaching what should be discarded and/or changed).
 
Seems like riding doesn't make sense to Vingegaard... saying that "The Tour Winner should ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Simply because "Well, that's how it used to be done is exactly tradition for tradition's own sake.
If the course is suited and his main Tour rival/s are there, then you go and if they can be ready to fight for the win, no excuses (not even building new houses).
 
Clearly we're not talking about a pan flat course suited on to pure sprinters. Then it would be alright for the winner of the Tour not to show up. But this isn't the case, and if Pog and Remco are riding, no excuses (not even building a new house), you line up. This is when respecting tradition is good, because it serves the greater interests of the sport (funny how the past, tradition, is both a lesson to build upon as well teaching what should be discarded and/or changed).
You failed the challenge.
 
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If you don’t value tradition for its own sake, you don’t value tradition full stop.
Good reason for tradition: You enjoy doing something so much, you end up repeating it, so it becomes tradition.
Bad reason for tradition: That's how it's always been done.

Says the one who writes cockamamie in this regard.
This whole discussion started because you mistakenly thought it was Jumbo who wouldn't let him ride, now that would have been a terrible reason.

But anyway; I'll watch the race next Sunday, and not give a flying *** about riders who aren't there.
 
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Good reason for tradition: You enjoy doing something so much, you end up repeating it, so it becomes tradition.
Bad reason for tradition: That's how it's always been done.



This whole discussion started because you mistakenly thought it was Jumbo who wouldn't let him ride, now that would have been a terrible reason.

But anyway; I'll watch the race next Sunday, and not give a flying *** about riders who aren't there.
Sorry for you as a Dane not to give a *** that your marquis rider had better things to do, as wasn't it just thrilling to see Pog...the Remco...then TopGanna head down the start ramp. But where is Vingegaard!
 
Did jumbo confirm he will definetely ride the croatian stage race and Lombardia?

I just cannot see him competing this year.

Belgian commentators today said that it is rumoured he did not left his house for weeks because all the attention got to much for him.

Which I can understand.

But it being so so quiet around him feels rather weird.
 
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Did jumbo confirm he will definetely ride the croatian stage race and Lombardia?

I just cannot see him competing this year.

Belgian commentators today said that it is rumoured he did not left his house for weeks because all the attention got to much for him.

Which I can understand.

But it being so so quiet around him feels rather weird.
Maybe the same that Ullrich went through, after his TdF victory in 1997: too many appointments after the victory, and he will show up in October or November, 20 kgs heavier than in July… ;)
 
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Sep 20, 2022
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Looooong time lurker of this forum and first of all I just want to say HI and that I really enoy coming to this forum.
So many nerds! (Meant as a compliment).
I've always been somewhat interested in cycling, and there are few things I've enjoyed more over the years than watching mountain stages in GTs, monuments and the world championships, but it's still probably not been in the top 2-3 sports I've watched most.
However, last couple of years my interest have grown to the point where I much rather see a random cycling race than almost any other sporting event and this year I've found myself having 3 and 4 cycling streams on at the same time more often than what's healthy.
You have to make a first post sometime and as I can't find an introduction thread this is my somewhat random point of entry.

I just wanted to say I don't get the page up and down discussions on whether Vingegaard should race the World Championships.
As pointed out: It's nothing new at all that the Tour winner skips the World Championships.
In this parcour I wouldn't have counted Vingegaard amongst the top 10 favorites even in TdF-form, so I really don't care much if he races or not as there are not a lack of profiles which makes his presence needed.

What I don't get (as another poster above): Why on earth Mads P isn't racing?
I'd have him as co-favorite together with WVA in this race given his climbing legs in the Vuelta and even though he's won the rainbow jersey before, I'd have imagined winning it again would have been a big goal for him.
Had I been danish I'd even be somewhat annoyed at him, I'm not though, so I'll just miss him like I did WVA in the ITT.
 
I think riders should generally make an effort to go to the World Championships. It’s an important race and if you stand a chance with the parcours or could be key in helping your team, you should go. If a rider is very fatigued and out of peak shape it makes sense to not go, but that should be the exception rather than the norm.

There may need to be some sort of incentives to help bring in more of the top riders. Prestige comes down to quality of the field in cycling, so having the best field year in and year out is also the best way to incentivize riders to enter.
 
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I think riders should generally make an effort to go to the World Championships. It’s an important race and if you stand a chance with the parcours or could be key in helping your team, you should go. If a rider is very fatigued and out of peak shape it makes sense to not go, but that should be the exception rather than the norm.

There may need to be some sort of incentives to help bring in more of the top riders. Prestige comes down to quality of the field in cycling, so having the best field year in and year out is also the best way to incentivize riders to enter.
Australia is so *** far lol
Of course he doesnt wanna go, the course doesnt suit him at all
And as for Mads, Im pretty sure he knows his form and prospects better than anyone. If hes not going its because he cant win.
The competition is going to be nothing like those vuelta stages he won
 
I think riders should generally make an effort to go to the World Championships. It’s an important race and if you stand a chance with the parcours or could be key in helping your team, you should go. If a rider is very fatigued and out of peak shape it makes sense to not go, but that should be the exception rather than the norm.

There may need to be some sort of incentives to help bring in more of the top riders. Prestige comes down to quality of the field in cycling, so having the best field year in and year out is also the best way to incentivize riders to enter.
Don't know how long you have been following cycling, but it was Armstrong who started snubbing Worlds, when he would have been selected by his national team. It was a poor example to follow and has done a disservice to cycling. It thus has nothing to do with the parcours, in this sense, but respect for the race (and, yes, I still think that should mean something for reasons already stated in previous posts). When Pantani was chosen for Italy, he went, no questions asked, which obviously wasn't going to be on a course for Cipollini. The point is that here Pog goes, Van Aert goes, Remco goes (with the exception of Van Aert, is the course any more suited to the others than Jonas and, if so, by how much? I mean it's not a 1980 Sallances or 1995 Diutama mountain goat's parcourse), while Johnas has been called up by Denmark, but refused to go. The Tour winner isn't going to represent his flag, but the runner up is, and the reason stated is lack of motivation (for Worlds?). Perhaps my expectations are just anchored in a past that is gone and unfortunately never coming back, but I can't approve of the Tour winner not showing up for this Worlds. And if the Worlds has gone to the Land Down Under, on the other side of the globe, twice in the last 12 years, well it's clearly an indication of how much, second only to Europe, Australia contributes to cycling's base development and financial stability. The Aussie fans thus deserved to have the Yellow Jersey amongst the field of contenders at the elite mens road race riding for the rainbow stripes.
 
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So, yeah... guess I got a little irate with my "I don't give a *** about [various decades]."
Mostly, it just irks me how some people treat the past as if it was some wonderful glory days; cycling peaked in the 80es? Oh, come on! :rolleyes:

Cycling has never peaked. Cycling will never peak. Because talking about a "peak" would imply that there will be a time when it can never get better, and what a sad thought that would be.
 

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