Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard: The Wizard of Visma

[theyoungest]

The footage of Roglic barely getting off his bike was there for everyone to see. Also if you're Pogacar are you really afraid of Roglic at 90%? Not to mention that Roglic dropped after Pogacars first attack once the Galibier really started. At that moment he should have already stopped.

I don't doubt Vingegaard was the best rider in the race. But I also don't think Hautacam and Granon are super representative of the actual gap between them. Pogacar also crashed on the Spandelles descent and it may have affected him on Hautacam and in the ITT. I think the fact that Vingegaard couldn't beat Pogacar on PdbF and Peyragudes should indicate it was at least somewhat close.

With a good strategy the 2v1 attacks should not play that much of a role, and Vingegaard just has to attack Pogacar 1v1 after a much less crazy Galibier, and I don't think Vingegaard immediately takes yellow on the Granon. Also a chance Vingegaard attacks even later than he did.

Vingegaard also crashed at some point, I don't know if you remember. Benoot wasn't quite the same after that crash. La Planche suits Pogacar way more than Vingegaard, the fact that Jonas almost beat him was actually already a sign that we had a real fight on our hands. Peyragudes also turned into a Pogacar type of climb thanks to McNulty, who had the best day he has ever had on a bike and who made it one long leadout for the final sprint. That sprint was always going to be won by Pogi.

 

[Red Rick]

Vingegaard also crashed at some point, I don't know if you remember. Benoot wasn't quite the same after that crash. La Planche suits Pogacar way more than Vingegaard, the fact that Jonas almost beat him was actually already a sign that we had a real fight on our hands. Peyragudes also turned into a Pogacar type of climb thanks to McNulty, who had the best day he has ever had on a bike and who made it one long leadout for the final sprint. That sprint was always going to be won by Pogi.

I think being nearly completely equal on 22 minute climbs normally would not really compute a >1minute gap on a 36 minute climb, even if one of those guys was normally better on the big climbs.

Crashes are basically never 1:1 equatable.

 

[Red Rick]

That's the February .1 race in the pocket.

Time for hibernation until Dauphine

 

[Ilmaestro99]

That's the February .1 race in the pocket.

Time for hibernation until Dauphine

I take the opposite perspective, if I am Jay Hindley I am licking the lips right now, seeing Pogacar and Vinegaard going thermonuclear in february and peaking too early.

Pog and Vineg will surely be fighting like maniacs at Paris Nice, meanwhile Hindley does his clever slow build for le tour

 

[CyclistAbi]

Looks like Jonas will peak for PN. Other riders should cancel the participation. Pogi, Jonas and a drone should do.

 

[Red Rick]

I think Vingegaard had a slightly underwhelming spring last year because either something went somewhat wrong or because Jumbo simply didn't need him to fly during the spring.

I wouldn't be surprised that this year they simply decided to just go a bit harder in the spring with Vingegaard because they're now more confident in him flying in July anyway.

 

[CyclistAbi]

If you are a reigning Tour champion. Do you really have a choice? Not to perform. Considering both Pogi and Jonas seem well prepared. The PN battle and the outcome should have psychological effect on both.

 

[Andy schleck]

I cannot wait for col de la couillole....be careful pogi.

 

[theyoungest]

I think Vingegaard had a slightly underwhelming spring last year because either something went somewhat wrong or because Jumbo simply didn't need him to fly during the spring.

I wouldn't be surprised that this year they simply decided to just go a bit harder in the spring with Vingegaard because they're now more confident in him flying in July anyway.

To be fair, in his first race of the season last year he was also really strong. Rode Ayuso straight off his wheel, IIRC. The classics are a different story, somehow they don't really suit him. I don't know why because he thrives in hard races... but not in hard one day races.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

and Vinegaard going thermonuclear in february

Ah, I think Vingegaard‘s victory of today was not „sensationally“ impressive. He clearly did a very good race, and probably could’ve gone even harder, but results ranking and numbers were not extremely impressive, IMHO. The race startlist is also not too strong.

Well, he beat the very strong Guerreiro, who clearly is in very good shape, with a nice time gap. But we probably expected this from Vingegaard, who takes his job seriously, and apparently did not have a winter like Ullrich did have in the winter of 1997 to 1998, after TdF victory.

Paris-Nice with Pog vs Jonas might be interesting, looking forward to that.

Nice to see that champions return to France. 20 years ago, champions rode Roubaix, Dauphine and TdF, and no other races in France. Nowadays, Pog and Jonas do Paris-Nice, Drome/Ardeche has a strong startlist, and even Ineos rides Besseges. Nice to watch…

 

[Netserk]

Whatever slight hints of worry his post-Tour program may have raised last year, there can be no doubt: He is ready. Ready for the spring. Ready for the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

Whatever slight hints of worry his post-Tour program may have raised last year, there can be no doubt: He is ready. Ready for the spring. Ready for the Tour.

They were always ridiculous tbh. Unless the worry is that he'll never win monuments, he still has something to learn in that department.

 

[Netserk]

They were always ridiculous tbh. Unless the worry is that he'll never win monuments, he still has something to learn in that department.

I don't think it was without any merit when it seemed like he wouldn't even start Cro Race. We've seen with Dumoulin that cycling is more than legs.

 

[BR2]

We just need to see all those super riders in the same races together. Each of them can completely dominate a race, but it's mathematically impossible that they all dominate a race where they are all present. In so far it is really annoying that they are all doing different races and if they are in one race there's a tendency that they are at very different stages of their preparation or not even there as a leader.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think it was without any merit when it seemed like he wouldn't even start Cro Race. We've seen with Dumoulin that cycling is more than legs.

I think there was 0 reason to extrapolate from Dumoulin onto Vingegaard. If anyone you're a bit worried for an Andy Schleck scenario, but Vingegaard never appeared unmotivated in general outside of the Tour.

 

[theyoungest]

I think there was 0 reason to extrapolate from Dumoulin onto Vingegaard. If anyone you're a bit worried for an Andy Schleck scenario, but Vingegaard never appeared unmotivated in general outside of the Tour.

Vingegaard is like Dumoulin in the sense that he doesn't like to be the center of attention, which is pretty unavoidable if you win the Tour (or in Dumoulin's case, the Giro). There was definitely the sense that he needed some time out of the spotlight after all the Tour madness. Other than that I don't see a lot of similarity between the two either, Dumoulin was almost a willy-nilly cyclist, Vingegaard really seems to like what he's doing.

 

[Cookster15]

Good to see. There is zero risk now of Pog making the same mistakes he made on Granon in 2022 TdF. This is shaping up to be quite a battle in July - and it's still only February.

 

[Andy schleck]

Good to see. There is zero risk now of Pog making the same mistakes he made on Granon in 2022 TdF. This is shaping up to be quite a battle in July - and it's still only February.

Pogi would lose the tour anyways. He would never be able at his best to follow Vingegaard at granon. Probably at his best, without mistakes he would lose 45 s/1 min.
But then, on hautacam and the ITT, Vingegaard proved that he was the strongest. The strongest team and the strongest rider won. I don't buy that narrative of "pogi lost the tour because of his mistakes", and i am a big fan of pogacar.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So first win of the season for Vinge, he is looking very solid.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Pogi would lose the tour anyways. He would never be able at his best to follow Vingegaard at granon. Probably at his best, without mistakes he would lose 45 s/1 min.
But then, on hautacam and the ITT, Vingegaard proved that he was the strongest. The strongest team and the strongest rider won. I don't but that narrative of "pogi lost the tour because of his mistakes", and i am a big fan of pogacar.

Vingegaard beat Pog by 8” in the TT after he was going full out before he almost crashed for fear Pog beats WVA’s time. There’s a difference between someone attacking all the time and the other just having to follow. Pogacar had to recover of his own mistake responding to and attacking two riders with doing a lot of the work on a hard stage, plus his whole team falling apart and the Covid rumors.

 

[Red Rick]

Vingegaard is like Dumoulin in the sense that he doesn't like to be the center of attention, which is pretty unavoidable if you win the Tour (or in Dumoulin's case, the Giro). There was definitely the sense that he needed some time out of the spotlight after all the Tour madness. Other than that I don't see a lot of similarity between the two either, Dumoulin was almost a willy-nilly cyclist, Vingegaard really seems to like what he's doing.

That's a fairly common personality trait lol, that's not enough reason to worry about Vingegaard. If anything it also makes it more likely he'll just go back to training after some time off.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Pogi would lose the tour anyways. He would never be able at his best to follow Vingegaard at granon. Probably at his best, without mistakes he would lose 45 s/1 min.
But then, on hautacam and the ITT, Vingegaard proved that he was the strongest. The strongest team and the strongest rider won. I don't but that narrative of "pogi lost the tour because of his mistakes", and i am a big fan of pogacar.

Jesus Christ, when you will you take a minute to think things over a bit?

 

[Blobs]

Vingegaard beat Pog by 8” in the TT after he was going full out before he almost crashed for fear Pog beats WVA’s time. There’s a difference between someone attacking all the time and the other just having to follow. Pogacar had to recover of his own mistake responding to and attacking two riders with doing a lot of the work on a hard stage, plus his whole team falling apart and the Covid rumors.

Vingegaard stopped riding at the end and celebrated instead. He was winning before that. Probably could have finished 30 seconds faster if he had gone all the way to line.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Vingegaard stopped riding at the end and celebrated instead. He was winning before that. Probably could have finished 30 seconds faster if he had gone all the way to line.

Yes, after he almost crashed and Pog wasn’t going to pass WVA. Could Vingegaard have made up the time without the collapse, yes. But it would have been harder if he had to be the one attacking and Pog just rides his wheel and punches away.

 

[Cookster15]

Vingegaard stopped riding at the end and celebrated instead. He was winning before that. Probably could have finished 30 seconds faster if he had gone all the way to line.

And Pog likely would have been at least 30 seconds faster if not for his errors on stage 11 and then his team falling apart as mentioned. We know from stage 20 of the 2020 TdF what Pog is capable of. Vingo's cupboard of career wins is bare by comparison to Pog - and he is nearly two years older. Of course, lets hope they both stay healthy so we have a good fight in July.