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Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard: The Wizard of Visma

Page 59 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Which thread title(s) do you prefer? (you may submit your own)

  • The Chicken who eats Riis for breakfast

    Votes: 32 33.3%
  • When they go low, Vingo high

    Votes: 6 6.3%
  • Wings of Love

    Votes: 8 8.3%
  • The Fishman Cometh

    Votes: 14 14.6%
  • The Mysterious Vingegaard Society

    Votes: 12 12.5%
  • Vingo Star

    Votes: 15 15.6%
  • The Jonas Vingegaard Discussion Thread

    Votes: 29 30.2%
  • Vingegaard vs Roglič

    Votes: 6 6.3%

  • Total voters
    96
  • Poll closed .
Why are you putting the vertical meters? Giro di Lombardia has close to 4000 meters and Vingegaard would never beat Pogi in a stage similar to Giro di Lombardia. I only see stage 17 and stage 20 as potential stages to drop Pogacar. Tourmalet is too early in the race.
I'm not talking about who blowns up. I'm talking about the race. A team who wants to blown up the race to his leader, has a lot of stages to do that.
 
I think the most important factor (lets assume they go with comparable fitness) is the weather. Last year was 25-35 degree full sun throughout the race - that likely wont be the case this year.

The climate in France in July? 25-35 degrees full sun is considered very normal that time of year in the regions they're cycling in.

I'm not talking about who blowns up. I'm talking about the race. A team who wants to blown up the race to his leader, has a lot of stages to do that.

You're just presenting a list of vertical meters. How those meters are divided, and along what length is what makes a stage. What you're putting forward is just a list of numbers, which isn't saying anything without further context.
 
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If that happens, I think Pogacar will win the Dauphine (or ToS), because he simply is a better rider in short stage races, where finishing skills are much more important.

I'd even go so far as to say Evenepoel and Roglic are also superior to Vingegaard in 1-week races.

But the last 10 days of a Grand Tour is where the race is decided more often than not.

So Pogačar now has issues at the end of GTs? And JV just has to wait it out? Well, about that.

We'll see.
 
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Eh, you’re pushin’ it

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that UAE specifically targeted the final ITT in the 2020 TdF to overthrow the race because they knew they didn't have the team to defend the jersey. It's similar to how Jumbo specifically targeted Granon to absolutely destroy Pogacar in last year's TdF, aka staff level tactical decisions which alter a race's outcome.

I mean from my point of view these conversations about xyz rider versus xyz rider totally undervalue the team strategy aspect in various races. Jumbo smashed Pog last year & without doubt that heavily swayed the visual impression of strength between Pog & Vinge. Vingegaard looked downright unbeatable after Granon & on Hautacam in particular. But that's after Pog had been forced to go on the offensive again, again & again whilst Vinge sat on the wheels of his super team & wheelsucked Pog after Granon.

Without a second rider close in GC in July, Jumbo are going to send Vingegaard into the Tour with a standard mano a mano strategy where he'll drop a watts bombs at some point & attempt to blow Pogacar off his wheel. I happen to think that's very unlikely to succeed.
 
Look at morzine stage, la loze stage and even la bettex stage. Even on Tourmalet stage is possible to blow up the race.

Morzine stage -4281 vertical meters
La loze stage-5405 vertical meters
Tourmalet stage-4000 vertical meters
La bettex stage-4527 vertical meters

This is not enough to blow Pog up. Pogacar is struggling only when we go at 2000m+ altitude.
Unless Pog makes a mistake blowing his legs up by himself, they'll finish together.
 
This is not enough to blow Pog up. Pogacar is struggling only when we go at 2000m+ altitude.
Unless Pog makes a mistake blowing his legs up by himself, they'll finish together.
Pogacar is not struggling at +2000m altitude just because 1 or 2 riders are better than him in altitude.

It's like when they say that pogacar was struggling in hautacam and wasn't in top shape. It's not true. His performance on spandelles and hautacam were very good.
 
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Last year Vingegaard only won the Drôme Classic before the Tour (and a close second to his teammate at the Dauphiné). He did also attack Pogacar up the Super Blanche de etc etc and I believe he was number 2 at Jumbo after Roglic. Stage 11 attacks (and the genius plan to attacks at the base of the Galibier) in the 30 C heat got Pogacar to basically beat himself (he does seem to be his worse enemy) with his own attack 4km from the top of the Galibier. In 2021 Ineos burnt all their matches on the second ascent of Ventoux and Pogacar had problems. Vingegaard does not have Pogacar's sprint but can seemingly follow all day long, so luckily for us, Jumbo need to use team tactics to beat Pogacar, which makes good TV-viewing.
 
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The climate in France in July? 25-35 degrees full sun is considered very normal that time of year in the regions they're cycling in.



You're just presenting a list of vertical meters. How those meters are divided, and along what length is what makes a stage. What you're putting forward is just a list of numbers, which isn't saying anything without further context.
I dont think its very normal that every day is super hot and all clear skies which was the case last year. Normally, we have a few suspect days in the mountains
 
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(he does seem to be his worse enemy)

To be fair last year Jonas had an additional element of surprise. On top of everything else. Pogi likely didn't consider for Jonas being an imminent threat. Should be interesting to observe the dynamics this year. If Roglič will participate. If not then i guess PN sort of racing against Jonas will be at play. And for Jonas therefore likely the best bet to drop Pogi mano a mano. We'll see.
 
To be fair last year Jonas had an additional element of surprise. On top of everything else. Pogi likely didn't consider for Jonas being an imminent threat. Should be interesting to observe the dynamics this year. If Roglič will participate. If not then i guess PN sort of racing against Jonas will be at play. And for Jonas therefore likely the best bet to drop Pogi mano a mano. We'll see.
Jumbo knows vingegaard have the numbers to drop pogacar. Thas's why roglic is going to the Giro and not to the Tour.
 
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In my opinion JV knows they need Roglič at the Tour. Hence that is on why they are taking Giro seriously in the first place. We'll see.

They know Roglic will probably grab the opportunity, no hesitation, if the team asks him to go. He wants to win the Tour. The team knows that.

Vingegaard knows his best chance to win again is to have Roglic with him on the team. He will accept that.

It is just politics and managing the situation for all parties involved.

For all we know it could already be the plan, but final decision after Giro.
 
@Rackham

We'll see. If JV will end up taking both and they are serious about winning. Then it's possible.

@Salvarani

For now i would say Roglič want's to win Giro. From Tour perspective i feel that all three mentioned cyclist want to win it. As for Roglič vs Vingegaard. If they are serious about winning they will likely make Pogi chose. The choice is hence not entirety in their hands.
 
@Rackham

We'll see. If JV will end up taking both and they are serious about winning. Then it's possible.

@Salvarani

For now i would say Roglič want's to win Giro. From Tour perspective i feel that all three mentioned cyclist want to win it. As for Roglič vs Vingegaard. If they are serious about winning they will likely make Pogi chose. The choice is hence not entirety in their hands.

Yes, Giro first. Then decision on Tour or not. I just think he wont turn down the opportunity to go to the Tour after the Giro.

Vingegaard wont have any problems with it. It benefits him to have Roglic in the team.

I dont understand how the choice is somehow in Pog hands, if Roglic goes or not? Surely the outcome of the Giro only determines that.
 
Team has said that Roglic "normally does not ride the Tour". To me that means if he's healthy and in shape going into the Giro, doesn't crash and finishes properly, no matter the result, he doesn't race the Tour.

I don't really see why Roglic would even want to.
 
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People are forgetting that Giro-Tour is a very hard task. No way, Roglic will fight for the win on both races.

I don't think anyone is forgetting that. But Rog has already shown he can maintain a high level for two GT's in succession. This would be a whole new level requirement of course but even from a neutral point of view he would be easy 3rd favorite & a sure bet for the podium.

Who would beat him? Gaudu?

Team has said that Roglic "normally does not ride the Tour". To me that means if he's healthy and in shape going into the Giro, doesn't crash and finishes properly, no matter the result, he doesn't race the Tour.

I don't really see why Roglic would even want to.

You're probably right but the team said he wouldn't ride Tirreno either. I mean who knows (it's just speculation anyway) but maybe roll the dice one last time & see what the Gods of cycling have in store for him in July? Technically speaking he probably shouldn't have won the Vuelta 2020 either, i.e. one of Rog's great strengths is that he knows how to maximize his potential & sometimes get results which normally would be out of reach.

I mean meh, I'm just daydreaming here but I can totally picture a scenario where Roglič at the beshest of Jumbo's tacticians launches a long ranger again in a mountain stage, yet this time Pog watches him go & says "nah, I think not". So he just sits there. Vingegaard watches in horror as Rog catches up with Mark Padun up the road who pulls like a super tractor & Rog finishes with 3 minutes gained. Pogacar's only reaction is "sh*t".
 
I mean meh, I'm just daydreaming here but I can totally picture a scenario where Roglič at the beshest of Jumbo's tacticians launches a long ranger again in a mountain stage, yet this time Pog watches him go & says "nah, I think not". So he just sits there. Vingegaard watches in horror as Rog catches up with Mark Padun up the road who pulls like a super tractor & Rog finishes with 3 minutes gained. Pogacar's only reaction is "sh*t".

Then in the Alps Vinge goes thermonuclear to beat his teammate but Pogacar limits the damage with Rogla on his wheel. The Tour glory goes back to Slovenia! Why not, eh?
 
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