Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Mountain Sprinter

[Krzysztof_O]

Vingegaard doesn't always attack early, and especially not when he's up against Pogačar in the Tour. And unlike this year, I don't expect there to be the same kind of uncertanty regarding Pogačar at the start of next years TdF, which makes it less like that Vingegaard will risk anything in the first part of the race.

We saw an interesting trend at this Tour. Even since Pogacar's successful counter-attack in Cauterets Vingo was very anxious when Pog was on his wheel. No more Mr Confident that we saw on Tourmalet and Cauterets climbs. They only managed to gap the rest when they rode alone (Joux Plane is a perfect example when they stopped when Vingo caught Pog, another example was Vosges stage). Actually it seemed they didn't want to cooperate at all. In case both are similarly strong next year (and neither can drop the other) they could have problems with distancing the rest

 

[Rackham]

I know that 14 seconds doesn't represent the real difference between Rog & Thomas but I just wanted to indicate that Rogla is not head & shoulders above the rest as often as the two mutants. See my second post (above), when I state that Rogla's peak level can be close to Pog's and Vinge's but he has to hold back more before his best efforts (instead of day in day out fireworks).

I feel I need to point out some stuff about Roglič & his potential because I can also see the writing on the wall, i.e. fast forward to next summer when Rog holds the wheel of Pog & Vinge, people will immediately jump over to the other part of the forum & start screaming about the "impossible ride" of a 34 year old former ski jumper (all irrespective of whether he even wins or not).

I'm basically super cautious about comparisons (like saying xyz rider can't do what xyz other riders did), i.e. in Rog's case not just because I'm a fan but also because I've seen some crazy strong rides from him, like Loze in the 2020 TdF (which is a seriously long, hard climb) & just recently the Angliru. So when people say he can't handle long hard climbs, I'm like shrugging, "yes he can".

But to be fair (& consistent) I'll say he does have a stage (or two) where he can lose time, even for no apparent reason. LPDBF exists as a permanent warning to never get totally carried away & too excited. Even in Lombardia (because that's just around the corner now) Rog was favorite in 2019 & 2021 but that didn't translate into a good performance on the road.

 

[Netserk]

We saw an interesting trend at this Tour. Even since Pogacar's successful counter-attack in Cauterets Vingo was very anxious when Pog was on his wheel. No more Mr Confident that we saw on Tourmalet and Cauterets climbs. They only managed to gap the rest when they rode alone (Joux Plane is a perfect example when they stopped when Vingo caught Pog, another example was Vosges stage). Actually it seemed they didn't want to cooperate at all. In case both are similarly strong next year (and neither can drop the other) they could have problems with distancing the rest

Which is why bringing Rogla as co-captain would favour both Jumbo captains and force the hand of Pogi (as whoever is number 2 at UAE won't be similarly threatening).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Which is why bringing Rogla as co-captain would favour both Jumbo captains and force the hand of Pogi (as whoever is number 2 at UAE won't be similarly threatening).

Definitely bringing both Vingo and Rogla to the Tour would put Pog at a disadvantage from day one. He would be forced to react to attacks or to attack himself (while having one/two of JV guys on his wheel).

 

[AmRacer]

Definitely bringing both Vingo and Rogla to the Tour would put Pog at a disadvantage from day one. He would be forced to react to attacks or to attack himself (while having one/two of JV guys on his wheel).

Pog should stay with Jonas and let Rogla go.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pog should stay with Jonas and let Rogla go.

He could gamble and let Rogla get some gap. But not that much as he will have to close the gap at some point of the race anyway (with Vingo on his wheel!). So he has to work harder than Vingo in any case. Vingo + Rog is a difficult combo for Pog at the Tour because both JV guys are able to win the race. Pog may count on some beef inside JV though!

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Pog should stay with Jonas and let Rogla go.

On paper that should be the tactical plan, but we have no idea how their form will be come 2024. No matter what you just can’t give a Jumbo GC rider too much time.

 

[SHAD0W93]

We’re still assuming Roglic is able to go and in a protected role. Like I said before the Vuelta he needs to drop Vinge and finish ahead. Unfortunately due to how the race unfolded that didn’t happen with him only gaining time in stomps or the TT, which we all have seen Vinge’s TT level. Otherwise Vinge stayed on his wheel on the hard climbs when Roglic was pacing and driving hard. If they keep infighting and want to be in front of the other, that isn’t going to be good if Pog gets the lead because Roglic and Vinge could fight each other as well. They both want to win, and there’s no oh the team won.

 

[Cookster15]

Why do we keep changing the thread title? Who is Chris Harper? Not funny.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Why do we keep changing the thread title? Who is Chris Harper? Not funny.

 

[Cookster15]

Thank you, now I am laughing

 

[Lequack]

Jonas looked a lot less skinny back then.

 

[Froome]

Jonas looked a lot less skinny back then.

He just could push 6 w/kg on that pic, now he can push 7 w/kg.

 

[Põhja Konn]

He could gamble and let Rogla get some gap. But not that much as he will have to close the gap at some point of the race anyway (with Vingo on his wheel!). So he has to work harder than Vingo in any case. Vingo + Rog is a difficult combo for Pog at the Tour because both JV guys are able to win the race. Pog may count on some beef inside JV though!

I very much doubt Vingegaard is prepared to gift a Tour win to a teammate just to make Pog lose. Pog ignoring Roglic's moves and concentrating only on Vingegaard could actually put the latter in a quite difficult situation.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Jonas looked a lot less skinny back then.

Maybe still before taking part in JV starvation altitude camps.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

I notice this has been elevated to a "power thread" and I observe some energies rising here.

 

[RedheadDane]

In their defense...

Practically twins!

These days... there's no excuse for getting them mixed up!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

In their defense...

Practically twins!

These days... there's no excuse for getting them mixed up!

Vingegaard rode a good race in Italy today. He'll be in great form for Lombardia.

 

[Rackham]

Maybe still before taking part in JV starvation altitude camps.

Considering Richard Plugge's sponsorship woes & lack of money at Jumbo, is anyone surprised his riders look starved to death? No money = no food.

They pay for meals via race winnings. It explains why they're literally hungry for success.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So is Jonas staying or going to Ineos?

 

[Froome]

So is Jonas staying or going to Ineos?

The best grand tour rider in the world called vingegaard, will stay.
Roglic probably will go to ineos.

 

[Oldermanish]

We saw an interesting trend at this Tour. Even since Pogacar's successful counter-attack in Cauterets Vingo was very anxious when Pog was on his wheel. No more Mr Confident that we saw on Tourmalet and Cauterets climbs. They only managed to gap the rest when they rode alone (Joux Plane is a perfect example when they stopped when Vingo caught Pog, another example was Vosges stage). Actually it seemed they didn't want to cooperate at all. In case both are similarly strong next year (and neither can drop the other) they could have problems with distancing the rest

That's where an independent Roglic becomes the spoiler. Who would he form a stage alliance with to kill off a rival? He's got nothing to lose wrecking the party.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The best grand tour rider in the world called vingegaard, will stay.
Roglic probably will go to ineos.

This things tend to change rather quickly. Froome.

 

[Froome]

This things tend to change rather quickly. Froome.

What do you expect? Jumbo rather stay with roglic instead of Vingegaard?😅

 

[CyclistAbi]

What do you expect? Jumbo rather stay with roglic instead of Vingegaard?😅

Well, in my honest opinion, they should have offered Roglič Tour leadership. In my opinion that would be doable, keeping both. Now i guess Jonas, Remco and Kuss can fight it off internally. Rogla will then just have to fight with them more directly. On who will came on top. Jonas already won 2. Historically speaking it is known, on what the limits are. We'll see.