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No. He asked for permission by his team to attack. The team granted permission for his attack.
We've been over this before: No one would have told him no in that situation, but he didn't clear it with his teammates, which we know eventually meant it did more harm than good.
Right. As I said, during the stage, "he secured permission to go against the team plan (ride for Roglic)." What does your "no” reference since we both agree there was a plan to go for Roglic in advance of the stage and he asked for and was granted permission from the team car during the stage to go for the win himself?
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Yeah, sure. I don't really care what you think about American athletes or Jesus. Vingegaard is always the first to congratulate Pogacar when he wins stages. Plenty of examples on YouTube for you to go look at. If Vingegaard calling his family when going on the rollers after stages annoys you that much, obviously something else is to blame. You're fooling no one.
I think you’re missing the point. And I’m missing yours because I just see a lot of vitriol and no coherence. What are you trying to say, and how does that pertain to anything I’m saying?
It’s fine if you disagree, but don’t make it out like I am a) Indicting Vingegaard as a person; b) Making this point because of bitterness about Roglic.
I simply stated a preference: I’d prefer Vingegaard just take the mask off. He’s clearly a ruthless competitor like the rest; why come up with a million reasons for why instead of the obvious, which is that he is driven to win and excel for himself and to actual use his tremendous talent?
That’s part of why Remco is so refreshing. FWIW, I think Roglic’s interviews are pretty bad but at least he shot it straight and said of course he wanted to win. No ***. You don’t sacrifice so much and ride hours a day, weigh your food, spend months away from friends and family if you aren’t deeply competitive.
Of course not, but I'm sure we all know by now Vingegaard is a very sensitive man, so if NVH really is his best mate, I don't think one can begrudge him wanting to try and win. After all his attack gave Visma two options to win instead of one.
This again? When the conditions for your pre agreed plan is there no more, what do you do?
They couldn't sky train to the top, there where no more domestics. Now you have to decide, Jonas and Kuss go full dom and they help Roglic with his little sprint. Or they start closing down attacks, one after the other and hope the chaos goes there way and no one gets left behind.
Now, did Jonas get permission to attack because of NVH or because it made perfect sense tactically? I don't know and don't care.
When you take "feelings" out of that stage it was a fantastic result, stage win and massive time gain for one of your captains. What would Roglic have done that was better? Gain 15-20 seconds at best? That's it if history is anything to go by.
Rog admitted he was on the way out regardless. I think he made up his mind when he didn't get to do the TdF after the Giro. Or maybe no sole leadership was the reason he wanted to race the Giro in the first place.
There was no tangible loss with what happened, but it created a lot of unnecessary drama from a position where they had the 1-2-3 locked up with their eyes closed.
I find it funny and basically an act of a spineless person (to call the wife immediately after every stage). How depended can you be to call her every god damn time and tell what? "I'm sweaty as hell and a bit tired, how was your day honey? Are kids alright? Can i go to bathroom now"?
Call her from the car or from the background after the race if you must. Not the first minute you step down from the bike on the rollers while others are tying to congratulate or talk to you and cameras are still rolling.
I would also ban kids on podiums. They don't belong there and take away from celebration.
Call her from the car or from the background after the race if you must. Not the first minute you step down from the bike on the rollers while others are tying to congratulate or talk to you and cameras are still rolling.
I would also ban kids on podiums. They don't belong there and take away from celebration.
Some would just call it a ritual between him and his closest family. It's not much different from when Pogačar sticks his hair through his helmet or Zoe Bäckstedt gives a thumbs up to to her cousin everytime she crosses the line in a CX race.
The problem is that riders are filmed once the race is over. Let them be, then it doesn't matter what the hell they do.
They are more concerned about what Vingegaard does after the stage than what he does during the stage. I don't care if before or after the stage he calls his wife instead of doing backflips to the pool, or telling jokes during the flash interview.
I care about him giving entertaining and legendary performances.
I care about him giving entertaining and legendary performances.
"I've completely made it in my field"
"How do you know"
"I'm so good people flame me for calling my wife"
"How do you know"
"I'm so good people flame me for calling my wife"
I see you already started, time to involve Remco too. And what was Remco doing, when the team gave permission to Jonas for an attack, although prior to the stage the decision was made to support Roglič.
Where was Remco in all of this?
On a more serious note. JV started (heavily) prioritizing Jonas in the 2024 season, Rogla had two options, make terms with it and abandon all hopes to ever win the Tour, or to do something about it and he did just that.
So basically it was Rogličes decision that was maturing for a while and it was JV decision too. And Bora in my opinion made the right choice too. Currently i don't believe they had a Tour winner in their team, just yet. Now they have that and i am sure that team as a whole will evolve. Likely already in top 3 entering 2024 season. We'll see. Ultimately the dilemma is now gone, on who to push forwards at the Tour 2024.
Where was Remco in all of this?
On a more serious note. JV started (heavily) prioritizing Jonas in the 2024 season, Rogla had two options, make terms with it and abandon all hopes to ever win the Tour, or to do something about it and he did just that.
So basically it was Rogličes decision that was maturing for a while and it was JV decision too. And Bora in my opinion made the right choice too. Currently i don't believe they had a Tour winner in their team, just yet. Now they have that and i am sure that team as a whole will evolve. Likely already in top 3 entering 2024 season. We'll see. Ultimately the dilemma is now gone, on who to push forwards at the Tour 2024.
Visma had no more domestiques when Vingegaard attacked, vallter was on the limit.
Certainly you didn't expect that the red jersey Kuss and the 2x Tour france winner Vingegaard would be the domestiques for Roglic doing his "roglstomp" in the last 500 m.
That discussion already happened here.
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