Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Mountain Sprinter

[Samu Cuenca]

Vingegaard has just been named Belgian of the year or something like that.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

I think a large stake in Vingegaard‘s TdF overall victory of 2022, Michael Rasmussen has.

What Rasmussen created in 2007, was finished in 2022 by Vingegaard. So Michael Rasmussen was certainly one of the most important persons/factors for Vingegaard‘s victory. Rasmussen showed that it‘s possible. He was the founder of this relationship between Danish climbers and Dutch Rabo/Jumbo team. Jonas benefited a lot from Rasmussen‘s experiences.

I hope Jonas has given Rasmussen late confirmation, and late pleasure. There is only one history of the Tour de France. This history forever will make clear that Michael Rasmussen and Vingegaard both won the TdF for this team, in 2007 and 2022, respectively. And what‘s clear is that only Vingegaard got his celebration. He remains the mental/spiritual father of Vingegaard‘s success, however.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I think a large stake in Vingegaard‘s TdF overall victory of 2022, Michael Rasmussen has.

What Rasmussen created in 2007, was finished in 2022 by Vingegaard. So Michael Rasmussen was certainly one of the most important persons/factors for Vingegaard‘s victory. Rasmussen showed that it‘s possible. He was the founder of this relationship between Danish climbers and Dutch Rabo/Jumbo team. Jonas benefited a lot from Rasmussen‘s experiences.

I hope Jonas has given Rasmussen late confirmation, and late pleasure. There is only one history of the Tour de France. This history forever will make clear that Michael Rasmussen and Vingegaard both won the TdF for this team, in 2007 and 2022, respectively. And what‘s clear is that only Vingegaard got his celebration. He remains the mental/spiritual father of Vingegaard‘s success, however.

If anything, Michael Rasmussen probably made it harder for Danish riders to get signed by Rabobank (for a while at least), although they did sign Matti Breschel, who wasn't able to get results due to his ongoing knee problems. Some riders might also have been reluctant if they were offered contracts by the team, but that is pure speculation on my part.

Vingegaard did take up cycling shortly after the 2007 Tour, but I don't have the feeling that MT was his idol at the time. But he will of course have been thinking about how other small climbers had been able to become successful, in order to endure the suffering while he was getting dropped by the peloton on the flatter Danish roads during his youth.

When he was eventually signed by Jumbo it was the result of his DS Christian Andersen, who had tipped off Grischa Niermann about Vingegaard's climbing abilities, after Vingegaard had broken Van Garderen's Strava record on Coll de Rates. But if they hadn't been satisfied with what he delivered during their tests and training camps afterwards, they wouldn't have offered him a contract. It had absolutely nothing to do with Michael Rasmussen.

But I do think that the success of Vingegaard might have played a part in JV signing Morten Nørtoft for their devo team this year, but again, if they didn't think his test results were good enough, they wouldn't have made that deal either.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

But I do think that the success of Vingegaard might have played a part in JV signing Morten Nørtoft for their devo team this year, but again, if they didn't think his test results were good enough, they wouldn't have made that deal either.

Im intrigued about this guy signing by the way. He has little good resuts at international level and is not a U23 first year rider (like other jumbo recruits with no top results but great test results I imagine). Do yo know anything relevant about him?.

 

[BigCoward]

I really expect him to be below last years level. Being leader and main man really doesn't seem to sit well with him. I expect the pressure to cost him a couple of watts at least.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Im intrigued about this guy signing by the way. He has little good resuts at international level and is not a U23 first year rider (like other jumbo recruits with no top results but great test results I imagine). Do yo know anything relevant about him?.

I can't say I know too much about him, so there might be some other people on here with more information.

But I have read JV were impressed by his test results and by his determination. Prior to 2022 he had been combining his cycling career with a full time job in carpentry for a couple of years, which could possibly explain his limited international results during that time period. He hasn't been a team leader at Riwal either, so that might also have costed him noteworthy results of his own. But having already been part of a CT team has obviously giving him some experience that the usual JV devo signings don't have.

He comes across as ambitious and confident in interviews, but without being too cocky or unreliastic in regards to his future. He's aware that he still has a lot to learn, but also that he has plenty of time to reach his full potential. We're probably not dealing wih a future GT winner here, but he could perhaps become a Kasper Asgreen/Søren Kragh Andersen type of rider for the classics and/or a solid domestique in a GT squad. Time will tell.

 

[Red Rick]

I really expect him to be below last years level. Being leader and main man really doesn't seem to sit well with him. I expect the pressure to cost him a couple of watts at least.

Did he magically lose watts after he took the lead on the Granon?

Cause that's what this is. Magical reasoning.

 

[Berniece]

Did he magically lose watts after he took the lead on the Granon?

Cause that's what this is. Magical reasoning.

He started TDF and that specific stage in a different way. I get what BigCoward is trying to say. Some people thrive when they start as the underdog, and are able to keep it throughout the race. Starting as the favourite is something different. But we'll see, it would be silly to pretend we know what type of person Vingegaard is purely from some interviews.

 

[BigCoward]

Did he magically lose watts after he took the lead on the Granon?

Cause that's what this is. Magical reasoning.

This is almost too silly a take to even bother with.
The circumstances of going in as team leader and presumptive favourite, with all the press and media commitments, all the expectation from the team and the sponsors etc is nothing like taking the lead during the race when nobody really expected it.
Some people thrive (Lance the sociopath), others wilt.

 

[RedheadDane]

This is almost too silly a take to even bother with.
The circumstances of going in as team leader and presumptive favourite, with all the press and media commitments, all the expectation from the team and the sponsors etc is nothing like taking the lead during the race when nobody really expected it.
Some people thrive (Lance the sociopath), others wilt.

Maybe that's what Roglic was doing with that "Vingegaard!" comment during the team presentation. Just... putting some pressure on him.
However, Vingegaard was at least team co-leader right from the beginning of last year's TdF.

 

[theyoungest]

This is almost too silly a take to even bother with.
The circumstances of going in as team leader and presumptive favourite, with all the press and media commitments, all the expectation from the team and the sponsors etc is nothing like taking the lead during the race when nobody really expected it.
Some people thrive (Lance the sociopath), others wilt.

I suggest you watch back the team presentation in Copenhagen. No pressure, no expectations? He was basically the hope of a nation. Also, he took yellow halfway through the Tour and it didn't seem to faze him at all. He thrived on it.

He definitely had a lot of difficulty dealing with pressure in the past, but I think last year showed that he's left that behind. Of course he's a different character than Pogacar, more of an introvert and a no-nonsense type of guy, but that doesn't mean he's not capable of leading a team.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

As a cyclist, when you won the Tour de France, your „life is over“, in some (positive) way. You fought for it, and you reached it.

It cannot get any better. And: nothing can happen to you, afterwards.

Whatever happens to you afterwards: you already won the Tour. This feeling changes a life for the better, I‘m sure.

I‘m happy for Vingegaard he succeeded to reach this point in his life. May he have pleasure from everything he does, in future…

 

[saunaking]

Did Lanterne Rouge & Benji mastermind Jonas' stage 11 win on Granon?
Just listened to the Geriant Thomas podcast with Jonas Vingegaard interview.
Jonas says that they planned stage 11 since December and mentions 'satellite riders'
This is a term I dont think too common, but i hear it all the time on the LRCP podcast.

Also in their TDF preview podcast LR picks Jonas for that stage and also discusses Wout in the early break taking the sprint points and satellite riders too.
interesting....

 

[Red Rick]

Did Lanterne Rouge & Benji mastermind Jonas' stage 11 win on Granon?
Just listened to the Geriant Thomas podcast with Jonas Vingegaard interview.
Jonas says that they planned stage 11 since December and mentions 'satellite riders'
This is a term I dont think too common, but i hear it all the time on the LRCP podcast.

Also in their TDF preview podcast LR picks Jonas for that stage and also discusses Wout in the early break taking the sprint points and satellite riders too.
interesting....

Domestiques in break is something every fan knows. The real surprise was attacking Telegraphe instead of Galibier, and picking the easier terrain between the 2 climbs to 2v1 Pogacar, so basically picking the terrain where even a weaker Roglic won't just get stone dropped if Vingegaard attacks and Pogacar follows.

Pogacar still raced like a complete idiot though. Attacking multiple times 1v2 and then attacking Galibier and just pacing it hard with Vingegaard on your wheel. What the hell was he doing lol.

 

[theyoungest]

Pogacar still raced like a complete idiot though. Attacking multiple times 1v2 and then attacking Galibier and just pacing it hard with Vingegaard on your wheel. What the hell was he doing lol.

He was getting rid of all the Jumbo guys. He probably thought that he was disrupting their plan at that moment, but in fact he was doing exactly what they wanted: tire himself out for the final climb.

 

[Red Rick]

He was getting rid of all the Jumbo guys. He probably thought that he was disrupting their plan at that moment, but in fact he was doing exactly what they wanted: tire himself out for the final climb.

There is no redeeming idea for what he did. There is no upside to getting rid of domestiques far worse than you and doing all the work for you only competitor.

 

[theyoungest]

There is no redeeming idea for what he did. There is no upside to getting rid of domestiques far worse than you and doing all the work for you only competitor.

He rode pretty stupidly for the rest of the race as well. People loved to see it, and it was fun to watch, but his attacks were pointless. He constantly tried to get into a 1v1, and he did, but then what? Trying to get Vingegaard to crash? He only crashed himself and Vingegaard waited for him out of pity.

 

[saunaking]

Domestiques in break is something every fan knows.

For sure, but he actually said 'satellite riders'
I don't think this lingo was really used before LRCP guys.
Even google 'satellite riders' and you do not really see references to this other than lanterne rouge/benji

 

[theyoungest]

For sure, but he actually said 'satellite riders'
I don't think this lingo was really used before LRCP guys.
Even google 'satellite riders' and you do not really see references to this other than lanterne rouge/benji

When you google it you get a blog post where Benji talks about Jumbo doing the same thing in Pais Vasco

The concept isn't new at all, Grischa Niermann (Jumbo DS) loves it and always applies it. Maybe the term 'satellite riders' is new but that doesn't mean Lanterne Rouge came up with this whole idea.

 

[tobydawq]

He was getting rid of all the Jumbo guys. He probably thought that he was disrupting their plan at that moment, but in fact he was doing exactly what they wanted: tire himself out for the final climb.

With Van Aert out front, no, he was not getting rid of all Jumbo riders.

He made a big and unnecessary mistake. Whether that cost him the race, I don't know, but it certainly made it much easier for Vingegaard to win it.

 

[Red Rick]

He rode pretty stupidly for the rest of the race as well. People loved to see it, and it was fun to watch, but his attacks were pointless. He constantly tried to get into a 1v1, and he did, but then what? Trying to get Vingegaard to crash? He only crashed himself and Vingegaard waited for him out of pity.

Crash doesn't matter, Tour was alerady lost at that point. Makes actually no sense to try that with Van Aert up the road.

In hindsight the Tour was already completely lost on the Granon. If he doesn't race like an idiot there he doesn't lose more than a minute and it's still very close. Maybe Vingegaard attacks and drops you but you get to react and make easier decisions.

Actually Roglic taking off in hindsight would've been ideal cause you force Vingegaard to either wait or chase his own teammate.

 

[Netserk]

Pogacar still raced like a complete idiot though. Attacking multiple times 1v2 and then attacking Galibier and just pacing it hard with Vingegaard on your wheel. What the hell was he doing lol.

I don't think Vingegaard would have committed on Galibier, but if he got a gap there it would have been even more done and dusted.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think Vingegaard would have committed on Galibier, but if he got a gap there it would have been even more done and dusted.

Obviously. I think Vingegaard rode ultra conservatively as well, trying to drop Pogacar with Van Aert up the road was a complete no brainer in the final 2km of the Galibier.

 

[theyoungest]

Actually Roglic taking off in hindsight would've been ideal cause you force Vingegaard to either wait or chase his own teammate.

That's 100% hindsight. Roglic finished 3d on La Planche. No way to know that he was really completely done.

In the end it didn't really matter anyway. Vingegaard was just the best rider in the race. It's talked about like it was a purely tactical win, but there's Hautacam as well, and he basically had to brake to not win the time trial.

 

[Red Rick]

That's 100% hindsight. Roglic finished 3d on La Planche. No way to know that he was really completely done.

In the end it didn't really matter anyway. Vingegaard was just the best rider in the race. It's talked about like it was a purely tactical win, but there's Hautacam as well, and he basically had to brake to not win the time trial.

The footage of Roglic barely getting off his bike was there for everyone to see. Also if you're Pogacar are you really afraid of Roglic at 90%? Not to mention that Roglic dropped after Pogacars first attack once the Galibier really started. At that moment he should have already stopped.

I don't doubt Vingegaard was the best rider in the race. But I also don't think Hautacam and Granon are super representative of the actual gap between them. Pogacar also crashed on the Spandelles descent and it may have affected him on Hautacam and in the ITT. I think the fact that Vingegaard couldn't beat Pogacar on PdbF and Peyragudes should indicate it was at least somewhat close.

With a good strategy the 2v1 attacks should not play that much of a role, and Vingegaard just has to attack Pogacar 1v1 after a much less crazy Galibier, and I don't think Vingegaard immediately takes yellow on the Granon. Also a chance Vingegaard attacks even later than he did.