Jose Ibarguren

I know that he has been mentioned on this forum, but why not have a whole thread about him.

Riders who have tested positive on teams that employed him

Rumsas, Aitor Gonzalez, Ricco, Piepoli, Mayo, Landaluze, probably more that I have forgot about (bikepure says it's 15 in total but it might be a slight exaggeration)

Named as a doping doc by Voet way back in the 90's. Named in the Mantua investigation.

And yet there he still has a job. He must be really good at what he does.

Is he responsible for the change of fortune of QS, the Gianetti mafia flying up the the climbs, the unbeatable Gilbert of 2011, the Rumsas Tour podium?

Or is he just an unlucky man caught up in the wrongdoings of others...
 
Caruut said:
Which teams have actually employed him?

Those that have had people caught, and those that haven't.
Euskadi, Lotto Mobistar (I think that's what it was called in 1999), Banesto, Lampre, Euskaltel, Saunier Duval, OmegaPharma Lotto and now OmegaPharma Quickstep

Bolded are the teams that had people test positive during his time there. As I wrote, it's quite possible that there are other positives that I have missed.

Considering his history you would imagine that after 2009 he would have ended up somewhere in Chile, but no.

Edit again

I have talked with him about his past and told him that if just one person from the team thinks that we might have problems that the deal will not go through
I take it that Phillippe "Victory without doping" Gilbert didn't have the right to vote back then...

Edit 3: Voet's allegation stem from the first Lotto period. But without a test for EPO back then denial is easy
 
Oct 30, 2011
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roundabout said:
Euskadi, Lotto Mobistar (I think that's what it was called in 1999), Banesto, Lampre, Euskaltel, Saunier Duval, OmegaPharma Lotto and now OmegaPharma Quickstep
Blimey. He certainly gets around, doesn't he?

He's hard to find on Google - we're the top search result presently. So much for the Clinic being a lunatic asylum no-one sees.

Maybe piecing together a timeline would establish better whether he's unlucky or not. One thing to consider is that teams who undergo doping scandals often suffer big losses of budget - he might simply be moving away from doping squads because post-doping they can't afford much in the way of staff. That said, a team doctor would seem pretty essential.

From what I can gather, he was at Lampre until 2004 (when it merged with Saeco, so that move has a perfectly innocent explanation) and moved to EE in 2005, then sometime between 2006 and 2008 moved to Gianetti's Saunier Duval/Scott/Fuji/Geox, and then it seems in 2010 he moved to Lotto, and now to QuickStep for 2012. Rather unfortunate that he's followed the pharmacy :rolleyes:

Trying to work out what happened dope-wise on those teams at those times, but I've just ended up reading Wikipedia in Italian, with Google Translate's gripping account of the battles between Gilberto Simoni and Dario Fridge at the 2001 Giro.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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roundabout said:
Considering his history you would imagine that after 2009 he would have ended up somewhere in Chile, but no.
Aye, but even among cycling fans, team doctors are pretty anonymous. Like I said, this thread is the top Google search result for him. If the thing the teams are worried about is bad press, the answer as to why he keeps getting jobs is simple - they know no-one's going to report it. How did you find him?
 
Caruut said:
Aye, but even among cycling fans, team doctors are pretty anonymous. Like I said, this thread is the top Google search result for him. If the thing the teams are worried about is bad press, the answer as to why he keeps getting jobs is simple - they know no-one's going to report it. How did you find him?
Oh, he is actually quite famous. If you search this forum there will be more than this thread that comes up.

As for the dates as far as I can tell it's

1995-1998 Euskadi, Euskaltel-Euskadi

1999 Lotto

2000-2001 Banesto

2002-2004 Lampre

2005 Euskaltel again

not sure about 2006

2007-2009 Team Gianetti

2010-2011 Lotto

2012 Quickstep

Edit: speaking of the doping scandals, while his contract did run out he was hired by Euskaltel to replace Dr Losa so you might say that a doping scandal played a role there.
 
May 26, 2010
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Zam_Olyas said:
I have been surprised by a number of OPQS win this year,so far..It may not be anything but they are really good and strong.
Big surprise at OPQS was seeing Bottle attacking?????
 
May 26, 2010
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Caruut said:
<snip>

Rather unfortunate that he's followed the pharmacy :rolleyes:
maybe him and OP have go something good going. Look at how OPQS are dominating. Even Bottle has been attacking up mountains FFS.

Caruut said:
Trying to work out what happened dope-wise on those teams at those times, but I've just ended up reading Wikipedia in Italian, with Google Translate's gripping account of the battles between Gilberto Simoni and Dario Fridge at the 2001 Giro.
Now would be a great time for someone to tell all. Time is ripe for another Willy Voet.

Need more riders to realise that they are getting a bum deal from the sport and to change it needs to come from them. I bet most wouldn't dope if they had a honest chance to ride without it but teams demand it IMO. Then it is a downward spiral and well if one does they all do.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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roundabout said:
I know that he has been mentioned on this forum, but why not have a whole thread about him.

Riders who have tested positive on teams that employed him

Rumsas, Aitor Gonzalez, Ricco, Piepoli, Mayo, Landaluze, probably more that I have forgot about (bikepure says it's 15 in total but it might be a slight exaggeration)

Named as a doping doc by Voet way back in the 90's. Named in the Mantua investigation.

And yet there he still has a job. He must be really good at what he does.

Is he responsible for the change of fortune of QS, the Gianetti mafia flying up the the climbs, the unbeatable Gilbert of 2011, the Rumsas Tour podium?

Or is he just an unlucky man caught up in the wrongdoings of others...
got that from a French friend too


eerily suspicious
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Im making a brief return just to share what i put together earlier which appeared on the "other" forum and briefly online.

Ibarguren 1999 – 2002

Interesting snippet in the Spanish press a few months after the Festina scandal where he says that “Willy Voet Lies” http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1945/03/08/pagina-38/404518/pdf.html? After Voet accused him of doping riders.

By the July of 99, he was at Lotto, interesting article from 99, his car was searched at Midi Libre, and he was viewed with a great deal of suspicion. “on the brink of illegality”
http://www.gva.be/Archief/guid/op-het-randje-van-de-illegaliteit.aspx?artikel=3a750cd4-17b7-11d5-8b00-0008c7eaa20b

Another interesting one from later that year, where he is confused by the result from UCI testing that his riders Hematocrit were much higher than he expected. Begs the question, why do team doctors have expensive equipment, to test as the uci do, if not to make sure they keep their riders hematocrit just below the legal levels http://www.gva.be/Archief/guid/lotto-dokter-onthult-grote-verschillen-tussen-bloedtesten.aspx?artikel=3a750dbd-17b7-11d5-8b00-0008c7eaa20b

Onto 2002. And the doctor is now working at Lampre. July 28th Just outside Lyon a Lampre camper van is stopped by the police. In it they find in the suitacases of Dr Ibarguren, corticoids, syringes and countless other doping parenphenalia. http://www.gva.be/Archief/guid/opnieuw-dopingprodukten-gevonden-bij-lampre.aspx?artikel=04fcdf13-2e46-482d-af8d-63057b82b480
Of course, 2002 was the year that Lampre rider Raimondas Rumsas finished 3rd in the Tour de France. On the final day of the tour, a car driven by Rumsas’s wife was stopped by police, in it they found corticoids, erythropoietin, testosterone, growth hormones and anabolic steroids. His wife was jailed, but claimed throughout that the medications were for her mother. He later finished 8th in the giro, but was banned for a year following a positive test for Epo. In 2005 he was arrested and along with his wife charged with importing doping products. They both recieved suspended prison sentances.

After positives in both 2002 and 2003 for members of the Lampre squad, 2004 was a prety quiet year in Ibargurens career. No major postives, but of course doping would once more rear its head with the Mantova investigation. Primerily focused on doping at Lampre in 2008 and 2009 (years after he left the team), he was nonetheless named on the list of 32 suspects along with 5 other team doctors and staff, Dr Bonazzi, Fabio Torre, Piccoli, Piovani and Guiseppe Saronni.

2005 and Taus makes his way to Euskaltel. At the ripe old age of 28, Inigo Landaluze suddely wins the Dauphine after doing nothing throghout his entire career. He tested positive for testosterone, and was suspended, before eventually being cleared. Later that season,He did nothing else for the rest of his career and was eventually banned in 2009 for Cera.

Aitor Gonzalez tested positive at the Tour of Spain for Steroids. Gonzalez blamed it on a contaminated food susbstance and the Spanish Federation acquitted him. Te UCI they took it to CAS and he was eventually banned from 2005 to 2007.

Ibarguren was fired by Euskaltel at the end of 2005. He had originally been given a three year contract, http://www.esciclismo.com/ampliada.asp?Id=235
after replacing Jesús Losa who was fired after being implicated in the David Millar case.

2006 onwards

Theres some disagreement over when Taus started working with Sanier Duval but it seems accepted that he joined them in 2006 and was there until the end of 2009 (Fuji Servetto)

You dont really need to be reminded what went on at Saunier Duval. In 2007, youngster Riccardo Ricco won two stages of the Tirreno Adriatico, as well as the points jersey. Ninth in Amstel gold, 6th in Fleche Wallone (in his first ever ardennes rides). Won a stage of the Giro ahead of teammate Peipoli, and finished 6th overall. And finished 2nd In Lombardia. All t the age of 23. By 2008 Ricco had won another 2 stages of the Giro, 2nd overall, and the young riders jersey. He then went on to win 2 stages of the Tour de France before finally testing positive for CERA on 17th July. Ricco originally had tried to dodge doping controls, and as a result the testers decided to test him daily.

Meanwhile teammate Peipoli was also having a remarkably good couple of years. 11th overall in the Giro in 2006, he then followed up with a stage win, 3 second places, and the mountains jersey in the 2007 edition. In 2008 he won a stage in the Tour, helped Riccardo Ricco win two stages, before finally confessing to EPO useage. Two of his samples from that Tour were later found to be positive for CERA.

And of course Iban Mayo. He too won a stage in the 2007 Giro d’Italia. (the team total for that giro was 3 stages, 3 second places, 6th overall and the mountains classification). He then went to the Tour de France of that year where he finished 16th before it being announced that he had failed a test for EPO and was subseqently banned.

For 2009 he remained with the now Fuji Servetto team. No positives there, but debate continues over which riders he was working with outside of the team.

For 2010 he joined Omega Pharma Lotto and remained their through the 2011 season. Im not going to go into those three years, but there are many who will look at Lottos brilliant performances in 2011 (Gilbert sweeping all before him, Vanendert in the Tour) and knowing his history raise questions.

And onto 2012. His new team Omega Pharma Quickstep, win all but one of the cobbled classics and look undefeatable.

Are their parallels to his early career, his Festina links, Lampre, Euskltel and Saunier Duval?

Some interesting graphs of his career performances. First the cq rankings for Lampre and Euskaltel including the time he was there. Interestingly, both teams suffered their worst time in the rankings of the last ten years.

Lampre (Cq rank)


Euskaltel (Cq rank)


Contrast that with his years at Saunier Duval, Lotto and then Quickstep.


saunier Duval (cq rank)


Lotto (Wins)


Quickstep (Wins)
http://velorooms.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=534.0;attach=606;image

Im not sure what can be read into those. the first two years he seemed to have if anything a negative impact on the teams he was on. From the various bits ive read it would seem that early on he was dealing with just epo, cortisoids etc but by his own admission he had pretty advanced blood testing equipment during that time. Suddely in 2006 (if we are to assume he was doping riders which for the basis of argument I am), then he got something right. Did the bio passport give doctors with experience of blood work an advantage, did he have early access to cera?

basically, its a pretty interesting history that he has had.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Just returning briefly to post some information I had been puttng together at the "other" forum.

A breif history of Jose Ibarguren.

Ibarguren 1999 – 2012

Interesting snippet in the Spanish press a few months after the Festina scandal where he says that “Willy Voet Lies” http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1945/03/08/pagina-38/404518/pdf.html? After Voet accused him of doping riders.

By the July of 99, he was at Lotto, interesting article from 99, his car was searched at Midi Libre, and he was viewed with a great deal of suspicion. “on the brink of illegality”
http://www.gva.be/Archief/guid/op-het-randje-van-de-illegaliteit.aspx?artikel=3a750cd4-17b7-11d5-8b00-0008c7eaa20b

Another interesting one from later that year, where he is confused by the result from UCI testing that his riders Hematocrit were much higher than he expected. Begs the question, why do team doctors have expensive equipment, to test as the uci do, if not to make sure they keep their riders hematocrit just below the legal levels http://www.gva.be/Archief/guid/lotto-dokter-onthult-grote-verschillen-tussen-bloedtesten.aspx?artikel=3a750dbd-17b7-11d5-8b00-0008c7eaa20b

Onto 2002. And the doctor is now working at Lampre. July 28th Just outside Lyon a Lampre camper van is stopped by the police. In it they find in the suitacases of Dr Ibarguren, corticoids, syringes and countless other doping parenphenalia. http://www.gva.be/Archief/guid/opnieuw-dopingprodukten-gevonden-bij-lampre.aspx?artikel=04fcdf13-2e46-482d-af8d-63057b82b480
Of course, 2002 was the year that Lampre rider Raimondas Rumsas finished 3rd in the Tour de France. On the final day of the tour, a car driven by Rumsas’s wife was stopped by police, in it they found corticoids, erythropoietin, testosterone, growth hormones and anabolic steroids. His wife was jailed, but claimed throughout that the medications were for her mother. He later finished 8th in the giro, but was banned for a year following a positive test for Epo. In 2005 he was arrested and along with his wife charged with importing doping products. They both recieved suspended prison sentances.

After positives in both 2002 and 2003 for members of the Lampre squad, 2004 was a prety quiet year in Ibargurens career. No major postives, but of course doping would once more rear its head with the Mantova investigation. Primerily focused on doping at Lampre in 2008 and 2009 (years after he left the team), he was nonetheless named on the list of 32 suspects along with 5 other team doctors and staff, Dr Bonazzi, Fabio Torre, Piccoli, Piovani and Guiseppe Saronni.

whats interesting is that at Lampre, for the two years he was there, they suffered their worst two years in the last ten (based on cq ranking)


2005 and Taus makes his way to Euskaltel on a three year contract
http://www.esciclismo.com/ampliada.asp?Id=235
At the ripe old age of 28, Inigo Landaluze suddely wins the Dauphine after doing nothing throghout his entire career. He tested positive for testosterone, and was suspended, before eventually being cleared. Later that season,He did nothing else for the rest of his career and was eventually banned in 2009 for Cera.

Aitor Gonzalez tested positive at the Tour of Spain for Steroids. Gonzalez blamed it on a contaminated food susbstance and the Spanish Federation acquitted him. Te UCI they took it to CAS and he was eventually banned from 2005 to 2007.

Ibarguren was released from Euskaltel at the end of 2005, although originally he had a three year contract.
http://hemeroteca-paginas.mundodeportivo.com/EMD02/PUB/2005/12/14/EMD20051214034MDV.pdf

Interestingly, as with Lampre, the year he spent at Euskaltel proved to be their worst ranking position of the last ten years.



For 2006 he then joined Saunier Duval
http://hemeroteca-paginas.mundodeportivo.com/EMD02/PUB/2005/12/14/EMD20051214034MDV.pdf

You dont really need to be reminded what went on at Saunier Duval. In 2007, youngster Riccardo Ricco won two stages of the Tirreno Adriatico, as well as the points jersey. Ninth in Amstel gold, 6th in Fleche Wallone (in his first ever ardennes rides). Won a stage of the Giro ahead of teammate Peipoli, and finished 6th overall. And finished 2nd In Lombardia. All t the age of 23. By 2008 Ricco had won another 2 stages of the Giro, 2nd overall, and the young riders jersey. He then went on to win 2 stages of the Tour de France before finally testing positive for CERA on 17th July. Ricco originally had tried to dodge doping controls, and as a result the testers decided to test him daily.

Meanwhile teammate Peipoli was also having a remarkably good couple of years. 11th overall in the Giro in 2006, he then followed up with a stage win, 3 second places, and the mountains jersey in the 2007 edition. In 2008 he won a stage in the Tour, helped Riccardo Ricco win two stages, before finally confessing to EPO useage. Two of his samples from that Tour were later found to be positive for CERA.

And of course Iban Mayo. He too won a stage in the 2007 Giro d’Italia. (the team total for that giro was 3 stages, 3 second places, 6th overall and the mountains classification). He then went to the Tour de France of that year where he finished 16th before it being announced that he had failed a test for EPO and was subseqently banned.

The Saunier Duval years saw a change in the doctors fortunes. Where in his two previous teams he oversaw a downturn in their fortunes, at Saunier Duval it was quite the opposite.



For 2009 he remained with the now Fuji Servetto team. No positives there, but debate continues over which riders he was working with outside of the team.

For 2010 he joined Omega Pharma Lotto and remained their through the 2011 season. Im not going to go into those three years, but there are many who will look at Lottos brilliant performances in 2011 (Gilbert sweeping all before him, Vanendert in the Tour) and knowing his history raise questions.

And again, under him, they enjoyed their best seasons in many years (wins)


And onto 2012. His new team Omega Pharma Quickstep, win all but one of the cobbled classics and look undefeatable.

Are their parallels to his early career, his Festina links, Lampre, Euskltel and Saunier Duval?

Ultimately, if a team want to be above suspicion, there are thousands of doctors out there perfectly capable of dealing with every day illnesses, injuries, etc. If you are going to hire a doctor with a reputation such as Jose Ibarguren Taus has, you have got to expect eyebrows to be raised when performances seem unbelievable

The question is, what changed between Lampre/Euskaltel and 2006 onwards. If we are to assume he is doping riders, which for the sake of argument lets say he is, what change. In the early part of his career he seemed to be dealing mainly with EPO, Cortisoids, and other drugs, although by his own admission he does have fairly advanced blood testing equipment and so there is every chance he was getting involved in blood manipulation. So what changed in 2006 to suddenly bring results for teams under his supervision. Did the introduction of the bio passport suddenly make doctors with heamotology experience more valuable? Did he gain access to the more advanced drugs (we know that saunier duval had cera pretty early on), or did he just gain experience?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
and a little addendum from the french press today.



Loosely translate itsays that gossip is that the best times of Quickstep (31 wins including 9 for boonen) since the beggining of this extraordinary season happen since the arrival of spanish doctor Jose Ibarguren. It then goes to mention his history, positives at Saunier duval, and his appearance in front of Coni in June.

"by hiring the services of the Spaniard, Boonen and his team have set the cat among the pigeos. Speciality of the house"
 
TeamSkyFans said:
Just returning briefly to post some information I had been puttng together at the "other" forum.

A breif history of Jose Ibarguren.

Ibarguren 1999 – 2012

...

2005 and Taus makes his way to Euskaltel on a three year contract

...

For 2006 he then joined Saunier Duval
http://hemeroteca-paginas.mundodeportivo.com/EMD02/PUB/2005/12/14/EMD20051214034MDV.pdf

...


For 2009 he remained with the now Fuji Servetto team. ...

For 2010 he joined Omega Pharma Lotto and remained their through the 2011 season....

And onto 2012. His new team Omega Pharma Quickstep, win all but one of the cobbled classics and look undefeatable.

Are their parallels to his early career, his Festina links, Lampre, Euskltel and Saunier Duval?

Ultimately, if a team want to be above suspicion, there are thousands of doctors out there perfectly capable of dealing with every day illnesses, injuries, etc. If you are going to hire a doctor with a reputation such as Jose Ibarguren Taus has, you have got to expect eyebrows to be raised when performances seem unbelievable
Nice Summary Dim. Thanks.

I think the bolded is key to me. Why not hire somebody else. Why hire the Doctor with a shady reputation. Then riders and coaches ask why, us, fans are skeptical about the results. Hiring this doctor is plain stupid y you don't want people to be questioning the results. To me it puts a big question mark on Boonen and Gilbert results.
 
Escarabajo said:
Nice Summary Dim. Thanks.

I think the bolded is key to me. Why not hire somebody else. Why hire the Doctor with a shady reputation. Then riders and coaches ask why, us, fans are skeptical about the results. Hiring this doctor is plain stupid y you don't want people to be questioning the results. To me it puts a big question mark on Boonen and Gilbert results.
Indeed. People may say whatever they want, but there's just no way one hires a doctor with such reputation simply because he's a good doctor. Seriously, this couldn't be any more obvious. On a positive note, he's not very good at covering up positives as a lot of riders have tested positive while riding for him.

So we might soon have to congratulate Pozzato with his RVV title and Turgot for his P-R victory.
 
maltiv said:
Indeed. People may say whatever they want, but there's just no way one hires a doctor with such reputation simply because he's a good doctor. Seriously, this couldn't be any more obvious. On a positive note, he's not very good at covering up positives as a lot of riders have tested positive while riding for him.

So we might soon have to congratulate Pozzato with his RVV title and Turgot for his P-R victory.
The problem is that as of lately the UCI have slowed down even more the fight on doping. Michael Ashenden has been very vocal about the lack of tests. It looks like they want to be in similar conditions with other sports where no positives indicate no doping and more money to the sport. So I am prepared to start seeing some out of the ordinary performances again until there is a major scandal again "a la" Festina.
 
Mar 26, 2009
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His name is mentioned today in Gazzetta dello Sport into the Mantova scandal.
Dont have the article here right now so dont know the details.
 

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