Jump in and out of saddle or not?

[oldborn]

What do you think about that techniques. Exept (my example) that it will incerase HR, and breathing is there any advantages on hills? Does we accelerate faster in or out on flat? What about Contador and his dancing, i mean this is theoreticaly wasting of energy but he is still going to have some efficiancy.

Thanks!

 

[Guttercat]

What do you think about that techniques. Exept (my example) that it will incerase HR, and breathing is there any advantages on hills? Does we accelerate faster in or out on flat? What about Contador and his dancing, i mean this is theoreticaly wasting of energy but he is still going to have some efficiancy.

Thanks!

There's got to be some exercise physiologists/trainers/coaches here who have way more scientific knowledge to share with you than I do.

But I'll just throw in this...I think in/out of saddle work should be a directed activity with specific goals in mind of acquiring greater aerobic/anaerobic capacity. Going out of the saddle as you know, requires utilizing more muscle groups at once, under demand/load.

As far as those who climb out of the saddle well like Contador and Armstrong...it need not be inefficient if body positioning is utilized to maximize watts and minimize demand. They've trained themselves for this type of work. It's just one more arrow in the quiver.

If you watch some of these guys on climbs...you'll see the ones who have not trained in such a way. When they're fatigued and they need to go out of the saddle (say to close a gap) they can't.... they end up flinging themselves all over the bike because of fatigue. They've not trained sufficiently to meet the demand of utilizing all these muscle groups at once.

Any pro-types that want to correct me or add info I'm all ears. Interesting stuff.

 

[redtreviso]

A true climber accelerates standing, then spins, then grinds then starts over. A tall gear grinder will stand to get back to a speed and cadence they can maintain and repeat..

 

[elapid]

Should we be breaking this down to a purely physiological question? I know I prefer to climb while in the saddle, but I get out of the saddle to give my **** a rest and work some different muscle groups. A form of recovery if you like. While you will work harder out of the saddle, there has to be some psychological benefits to varying your style and working different muscle groups. I know there is for me personally.

 

[brianf7]

Big Gears and jump standing then sit and spin and keep doing it untill every one else fails.

I wish!!!! It never works even if you get up top first someone will pass you on a decent.

 

[humboldtcomeback]

for contador he stands for tactical reasons. look at him on schleck's wheel. he is standing to let schleck know that if he wants to attack that he is already marked. at the top level of a race on a climb, the top climbers are all looking at each other and are 'racing'. if sckleck stands up to attack contador will mark/counter attack and it will hurt like hell because he is standing there like a loaded spring ready to release all of its stored energy - like a gun, loaded and ready to fire with the finger on the trigger - he is just aiming his gun and waiting to fire his bullet. and that is the feeling that you too whan to cultivate.

for you guys training at home who are trying to climb like these guys but find that climbing out of the saddle spikes your heart rate and that it is not as efficent - just stick with it. particularly once you learn how to roll large gears on a climb while seated, you'll find that you can also roll a large gear standing. pedaling small gears uphill unseated spikes anyones HR - it is basically an attack or a last ditch effort to keep a tempo on a steep kicker. if your training theory says to always stay seated, i'd suggest rethinking that. staying seated most of the time is good for training, but when the road changes from surface to surface or pitches up, i suggest poping in and out of the seat anytime it will help you keep your speed up. this is the training you need to master climbing out of the seat. also long efforts on the flats out of the seat are good too... also in a big gear... there is way too much little gear riding these days - it only works if you are on EPO... so think about 'good reasons' for standing as part of a maintence of speed regime...

watt meters and HR meters sorta take the thinking out of cycling, but something that i do is to focus on speed maintence, because when you are in a race the worst thing you can ever do is to slow down. you need to ride your bike at a constant speed to keep your position in a race - no matter what the surface of the road is like the feild will not really slow down much. getting used to spiked out watts and HRs is what bike racing is... when you are on form you can spike your watts without having an HR spike...

so climb out of the seat all winter - and master 'riding' your bike.

 

[oldborn]

Hey thanks mates!

Yes i agree with you, it is something that we should trained for. For attacks, acceleration and mantain speed, this is not easy but when time come it is good to be ready. Also it is good for a..

 

[Bike Boy]

I thought it was more common to climb unseated, of course I'm build to do it so what do I know?
I know it's not the same for everybody. A friend of mine has the same body type as Jan Ullrich and he's defenitely seated while climbing.

But I will always prefer to get out of the saddle on climbs. I don't care if it spikes my heart rate or not, everybody I know of, who remains seated is dropped anyway.
For me climbs are an invitatin to attack, but then of course I'm not any good when i comes to time trial.

 

[oldborn]

There was a lot, lot out of saddle style ride on that nasty steep small hill at womans worlds

 

[RedheadDane]

I don't have much experience with climbing (for obvious reasons... in my mind climbing requires mountains, or at least something steap, and not just road bumbs!) But mostly I go out of the saddle for short "steap" stretches and stay in the saddled for longer flatter stretches. (Well... I also tend to go randomly out of the saddle when it's completely flat... or even downhill...)
For me it's faster to stand up in a somewhat high gear than be sitting in a lower (and I can't sit in high-ish gearing...)

 

[Boeing]

Some suggest that a mix of in and out can help share the load in each of the major muscle groups in your legs thus helping fatigue.

I do not have evidence to prove or disprove. It was something I was taught or told when I was younger. Hammys in the saddle and Quads out etc....

 

[straydog]

Horses for courses

A lot of what people have said here is correct, but also if I may say a bit generalised.

Ultimately you will find what suits you best for climbing.

Yes, you should definitely train in and out of the saddle, and train your body to push bigger gears, aswell as spinning, because ultimately our perfect individual climbing tempo is dictated by our own physiological capabilities. I would say that from experience most "natural" climbers definitely spin more than mash, and definitely stand regularly, and I would certainly refute that Contador stands to let his opponents know he is there. I think he quite clearly varies his riding position, as is touched on above, to allow different muscle groups to recover.

But that doesn't suit everyone. For example, a rider with a larger percentage of fast twitch muscle fibres, but a poor lung capacity and a poor V02 max, will probably find "spinning" more or less completely impossible to sustain, and standing out of the saddle to climb, a recipe for disaster, but that doesn't mean that rider cannot improve his climbing speed. He just has to go about it differently.

Worth reading on this subject is Robert Millar in the tour special issue of Rouleur.

I would say if you want to improve climbing and enjoy it more....practice some fork management (i.e try to lose any unneccessary weight, which is the most common limiter in climbing), work on your basic leg strength (and your lactate threshold) and play about with different cadences as you climb both short and long climbs.

And finally, certainly don't obsess about your heartrate. Your HR is affected by so many potentially irrelevant factors when climbing, and actually exercising in general, that it represents a pretty inneffective method of gaging precisely training efforts.