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JV talks, sort of

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Mar 13, 2009
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luckyboy said:
Oleg Tinkov @olegtinkov
@Vaughters Why you dedicated you life to anti-doping? That's weird.. You can't control and be responsible for stupid people around. PR?


Don't think I've ever seen somebody accuse JV of his anti-doping being mostly about PR outside of this place.
forearms van petegem said:
@oleg stupid 4getting cuaght, or stupid 4 doping? there were leaks about Tinkoff Credit Systems and the patron's advice on "if" and "dont... get... caught" ?
10 characters. follow @forearms forearms van petegem.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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D-Queued said:
There must be a term for this. Not quite an oxymoron.

A respected cyclist?

That is definitely the hard part.

Dave.
thats a bit harsh Dave.

Its Ricky Riccio. come on, you know you luv him too. whats not to like with his homo-erotic selfies.

as an aside, i think JV unfollowed this thread. sadface
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Ricky Riccio's selfies are like a companion piece dichotomy to Lanc'es Il Yellow Rose gentlemen's establishment?

no one answered me last time, is it a gentlemaen's club, or is it a gentlemen's establishment? puzzled face

 
May 26, 2010
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So in spring of 2010 a team gets tested for ABP in Tenerife and the results come back too high for the ABP, so the team Doc contacts Zorzoli to get them removed from the riders ABP.

Zorzoli is gone from the sport since when? 2015....

So again when did the sport clean up that clean riders can win GTs and monuments?

Garmin clean? As clean as the yellarose........
 
Nov 2, 2013
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So Millar is asked to talk to CIRC but refuses. Last season was hardly a busy one for him from a competition standpoint. Now how does that mesh with JV and his "clean teams" policy that's been published like a million times? Been any public questions to JV on this yet?

?This goes back to the policy that we published ? I know I?ve referred to this a million times, but I feel like people need to revisit this thing. But from a team policy standpoint, our policy has always been that people are open, honest, and truthful to anti-doping authorities. And Ryder accomplished that a long time ago to the satisfaction of us.?
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/11/news/his-clean-team-dirtied-vaughters-wouldnt-change-a-thing_306775#0CUlrb32wwwJp4QS.99

On a November 28 Twitter spat with Johan Bruyneel, regarding the Change Cycling Now summit, when the Belgian referred to Vaughters as ?a ******? ? and Vaughters had a snappy reply:
?It?s unfortunate that he is angry with me because, when I was questioned by an authority, I told the truth. But what was I supposed to do, lie to them? I find it a little sad that I draw the criticism. Our team policy [published May 2010, that Garmin riders must cooperate with anti-doping and governmental authorities] was public for three years now. If he wanted to be upset, he should have been upset three years ago, because once you say that, you have to live by it. That?s just a basic value. If you?re going to put it out there, you?d better live and die by it.?
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/12/analysis/vaughters-speaks-from-the-hip-on-bruyneel-leipheimer-tygart-and-ccn_267383#wMIMlE8es7zLITzI.99
 
Jun 16, 2009
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JV and that chamois sniffing fan from sky sports having a love in in Twitter at the moment.

Don't they realise that when riders like Ryder and Froome win grand tours, cyclings credibility goes down the toilet. Not when its revealed that around 90% of the peloton are off their heads on dope.

He needs to take a long, hard look at himself.
 
bobbins said:
JV and that chamois sniffing fan from sky sports having a love in in Twitter at the moment.

Don't they realise that when riders like Ryder and Froome win grand tours, cyclings credibility goes down the toilet. Not when its revealed that around 90% of the peloton are off their heads on dope.

He needs to take a long, hard look at himself.
When was it revealed 90% of the peloton were off their heads on dope? I read a comment where one former rider thought 90% were doped whilst another former rider said 20% were doped. If doping has gone underground as the report states, then how would anybody know other than guesswork. This is too similar to the Di Luca claims.


At a guess I would say the reality is somewhere in between. Also it is not about how many are doping but the gains to be made. The reports says gains are now somewhere between 3-5% whilst before they were 10-15%. What % were the gains of PEDs before the arrival of EPO when clean riders could allegedly win the Tour?

I also find it weird that Cortisone is such a big player considering it was also widely used back in the 80s. You have alluded to SKY using Cortisone and I respect your insider info and don't really doubt it. I just find it hard to believe that something that was availbale 30 years ago is what is turning nobodies into GT winners. There has to be more to it than that.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
I also find it weird that Cortisone is such a big player considering it was also widely used back in the 80s. You have alluded to SKY using Cortisone and I respect your insider info and don't really doubt it. I just find it hard to believe that something that was availbale 30 years ago is what is turning nobodies into GT winners. There has to be more to it than that.
pre-blood vector doping, epo. cortisone was #1 in the pro riders doping suite. it was the best recovery drug. allowed you to hammer 150miles yesterday, and feel fresh to hammer another 150 miles today.

not good for retirement with all that wear and tear tho
 
Oct 16, 2010
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pmcg76 said:
When was it revealed 90% of the peloton were off their heads on dope? I read a comment where one former rider thought 90% were doped whilst another former rider said 20% were doped. If doping has gone underground as the report states, then how would anybody know other than guesswork. This is too similar to the Di Luca claims.
agree it could well have been Di Luca repeating his earlier made claim in front of Circ.
But the Circ report also mentions 95% of riders DOES NOT tick box allowing anonymous anti-doping research on a sample.
tweet from Goeff Kabush about that:
CIRC: 95% of cyclists don't tick box allowing anonymous anti-doping research w/ sample? If you're for clean sport why not? I tick every time
It does lend credibility to the 90% claim, though of course it remains largely guess work that depends on one's degree of skepticism.

pmcg76 said:
I also find it weird that Cortisone is such a big player considering it was also widely used back in the 80s. You have alluded to SKY using Cortisone and I respect your insider info and don't really doubt it. I just find it hard to believe that something that was availbale 30 years ago is what is turning nobodies into GT winners. There has to be more to it than that.
+1.
I've been making the same point for a couple of months already.
The more dodgy stuff comes out, the more sky fans will be happy to settle with the view that Team Sky have been playing in the 'grey' zone of the WADA code (i.e. doing unethical stuff, but nothing illegal).
I guess all proteams and proriders with some ambition play around in that grey area, so imo that alone cannot explain Sky's dominance e.g. in 2012, or Wiggins' and Froome's meteoric rise to the top.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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bobbins said:
JV and that chamois sniffing fan from sky sports having a love in in Twitter at the moment.

Don't they realise that when riders like Ryder and Froome win grand tours, cyclings credibility goes down the toilet. Not when its revealed that around 90% of the peloton are off their heads on dope.

He needs to take a long, hard look at himself.
agreed....
 
Oct 16, 2010
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westerner said:
So Millar is asked to talk to CIRC but refuses. Last season was hardly a busy one for him from a competition standpoint. Now how does that mesh with JV and his "clean teams" policy that's been published like a million times? Been any public questions to JV on this yet?

?This goes back to the policy that we published ? I know I?ve referred to this a million times, but I feel like people need to revisit this thing. But from a team policy standpoint, our policy has always been that people are open, honest, and truthful to anti-doping authorities. And Ryder accomplished that a long time ago to the satisfaction of us.?
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/11/news/his-clean-team-dirtied-vaughters-wouldnt-change-a-thing_306775#0CUlrb32wwwJp4QS.99

On a November 28 Twitter spat with Johan Bruyneel, regarding the Change Cycling Now summit, when the Belgian referred to Vaughters as ?a ******? ? and Vaughters had a snappy reply:
?It?s unfortunate that he is angry with me because, when I was questioned by an authority, I told the truth. But what was I supposed to do, lie to them? I find it a little sad that I draw the criticism. Our team policy [published May 2010, that Garmin riders must cooperate with anti-doping and governmental authorities] was public for three years now. If he wanted to be upset, he should have been upset three years ago, because once you say that, you have to live by it. That?s just a basic value. If you?re going to put it out there, you?d better live and die by it.?
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/12/analysis/vaughters-speaks-from-the-hip-on-bruyneel-leipheimer-tygart-and-ccn_267383#wMIMlE8es7zLITzI.99
thanks, great post.

how are people still on the fence wrt Vaughters/Garmin? I dunno.

some posters paradoxically seem to agree Millar is a pathological liar, yet are willing to consider that Garmin has been clean, that Ryder won the Giro clean and that Vaughters really is one of the good guys.
I think Vaughters and Millar are one of a kind.
If anything, the report confirms Vaughters has been selling us lie after lie after lie about cycling cleaning up its act.
And let's not start about Wiggo 2009 and Ryder 2012.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
When was it revealed 90% of the peloton were off their heads on dope? I read a comment where one former rider thought 90% were doped whilst another former rider said 20% were doped. If doping has gone underground as the report states, then how would anybody know other than guesswork. This is too similar to the Di Luca claims.


At a guess I would say the reality is somewhere in between. Also it is not about how many are doping but the gains to be made. The reports says gains are now somewhere between 3-5% whilst before they were 10-15%. What % were the gains of PEDs before the arrival of EPO when clean riders could allegedly win the Tour?

I also find it weird that Cortisone is such a big player considering it was also widely used back in the 80s. You have alluded to SKY using Cortisone and I respect your insider info and don't really doubt it. I just find it hard to believe that something that was availbale 30 years ago is what is turning nobodies into GT winners. There has to be more to it than that.
In the old days a bit of cortisone would be taken on race day morning, probably a couple of ml, maybe even mixed with some vitamin B. That would just help with fatigue as the race went on but the next day you wouldn't be so great.

It is much more scientific these days, it is micro dosed in training to stimulate weight loss and enable them to train harder. EPO is micro dosed to maintain the blood passport profile plus other newer weight loss drugs are being used.
 
bobbins said:
In the old days a bit of cortisone would be taken on race day morning, probably a couple of ml, maybe even mixed with some vitamin B. That would just help with fatigue as the race went on but the next day you wouldn't be so great.

It is much more scientific these days, it is micro dosed in training to stimulate weight loss and enable them to train harder. EPO is micro dosed to maintain the blood passport profile plus other newer weight loss drugs are being used.
And this is the truth to 'marginal' gains.

The old days of Pot Belge are behind us - notably also a favorite application of Cortisone.

Nowadays marginal dosages, also known as micro-dosing, provide observable gains from doping that is undetectable.

Dave.
 
sniper said:
some posters are willing to consider that Garmin has been clean, that Ryder won the Giro clean and that Vaughters really is one of the good guys.
i'm sold!

all of jv's earlier comments have been completely supported by the CIRC.

hysterical to watch the clinic paranoia blaming jv for all doping while clentadoppucci is lauded over and over again by the same dumba$$es.

And now it is revealed that Clentadoppucci's only two TDF wins have been proven to take place under the same UCI protection as Armstrong's. but do the clinic psychopaths mention that? of course not. clentadoppuci has chosen to ride for four straight teams that have systematic doping on them. when given the chance to ride clean with garmin, instead he ran off to astana and tinkoff. but -- my god! - he is a "true" talent according to the clinicians! and garmin - with all their outlandish performances are the dirtiest, most hypocritical and sociopathic liars EVAH!

u guys are completely and utterly ridiculous.
 
May 26, 2010
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Big Doopie said:
i'm sold!

.......................


u guys are completely and utterly ridiculous.
Care to explain how Garmin are able to beat dopers in a GT and 3 monuments while on bread and water?
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Big Doopie said:
i'm sold!

all of jv's earlier comments have been completely supported by the CIRC.

hysterical to watch the clinic paranoia blaming jv for all doping while clentadoppucci is lauded over and over again by the same dumba$$es.

And now it is revealed that Clentadoppucci's only two TDF wins have been proven to take place under the same UCI protection as Armstrong's. but do the clinic psychopaths mention that? of course not. clentadoppuci has chosen to ride for four straight teams that have systematic doping on them. when given the chance to ride clean with garmin, instead he ran off to astana and tinkoff. but -- my god! - he is a "true" talent according to the clinicians! and garmin - with all their outlandish performances are the dirtiest, most hypocritical and sociopathic liars EVAH!

u guys are completely and utterly ridiculous.
I like you use of the doppucci, but don't you find it difficult to trust the clean claims by jv and or the "marginal clean" team?
 
Feb 10, 2010
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Big Doopie said:
And now it is revealed that Clentadoppucci's only two TDF wins have been proven to take place under the same UCI protection as Armstrong's. but do the clinic psychopaths mention that? of course not. clentadoppuci has chosen to ride for four straight teams that have systematic doping on them. when given the chance to ride clean with garmin, instead he ran off to astana and tinkoff. but -- my god! - he is a "true" talent according to the clinicians! and garmin - with all their outlandish performances are the dirtiest, most hypocritical and sociopathic liars EVAH!

u guys are completely and utterly ridiculous.
Could you post some examples? I don't recall any of the frequent posters defending Contador as clean. I'd be quite surprised beyond maybe La Florecita.
 
May 26, 2010
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In 2010 due to budget cuts, 'older' riders were no longer tested, did you know about this JV?

Did you notice the 'older' slipstream were not being tested?

Reduced testing does not equal a cleanER sport.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
In 2010 due to budget cuts, 'older' riders were no longer tested, did you know about this JV?

Did you notice the 'older' slipstream were not being tested?

Reduced testing does not equal a cleanER sport.
They still tested older riders back in 2009.
Beltran was 37 when he got busted back in 2009.

but as Vaughters says, testing has only gotten 'better' since then.

btw, VDV's reaction back then to Beltran's positive. Same old same old.
"It is hard because it has been a great race and one animated by teams that have an anti-doping programme within them." Vande Velde is part of one of those teams, Team Garmin Chipotle presented by H30. Both he and Beltr?n raced for Lance Armstrong's US Postal, although during different years.

Vande Velde disagreed with the Beltr?n/Armstrong connection that was immediately made in many reports. "That is wrong. That was years ago," he said. "'Triki' was a really strong rider before he came to Lance Armstrong, so I don't think there is any association."

Beltr?n, at age 37, was considered one of cycling's old-guard. The newer generation coming up the ranks may have a different take on how to participate in the sport.

"I hope that the [young] guys don't even think about it," Vande Velde said. "We had never thought about it and that is maybe why we were blindsided by it. You would not think that someone would be doing it at this point in time."
:rolleyes:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vande-velde-disappointed-in-beltran
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Big Doopie said:
i'm sold!

all of jv's earlier comments have been completely supported by the CIRC.

hysterical to watch the clinic paranoia blaming jv for all doping while clentadoppucci is lauded over and over again by the same dumba$$es.

And now it is revealed that Clentadoppucci's only two TDF wins have been proven to take place under the same UCI protection as Armstrong's. but do the clinic psychopaths mention that? of course not. clentadoppuci has chosen to ride for four straight teams that have systematic doping on them. when given the chance to ride clean with garmin, instead he ran off to astana and tinkoff. but -- my god! - he is a "true" talent according to the clinicians! and garmin - with all their outlandish performances are the dirtiest, most hypocritical and sociopathic liars EVAH!

u guys are completely and utterly ridiculous.
we are talking about Contador right? Pistolero?

well, JV went on about him here when we called him out on his interest in Contador.

seems this post of yours contradicted itself.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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sniper said:
but as Vaughters says, testing has only gotten 'better' since then.[/url]
testing always gets better.

sport always gets cleaner. cycling sport that is. not other ones. aks Cav. or Frodo.

#Zenoparadox
 

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