Keep the winnings?

Should the rider caught doping keep the race winnings.

  • Yes, should keep them all

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
Ok, since there seemed to be a dispute about that in the racing forum, and lots of different opinions, I thought that might as well post a poll here.

So the question is: Should the rider caght with illegal substance in his system after/during the race be able to keep the rewards, including cash, trophies, honors, etc.
Or: should they go to the highest placed 'clean' (or not caught, whatever preference you have) rider?
 
Jul 11, 2013
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All should be re-claimed and go directly to WADA and/or better testing/research..

Same opinion to fines..
It seems Kreuziger may face a hefty 800.00 euro fine..
All that should imo go to anti-doping..
(i dunno where the money ends now)
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Why not establish a reasonable period of time for all testing to clear before handing out any monetary awards?

If a rider gets busted within that time, he never would've gotten the money to begin with. If the powers-that-be can not process the tests within a reasonable time-frame, then the rider should get the winnings.

Outside of China, is such a system already in place?
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Granville57 said:
Why not establish a reasonable period of time for all testing to clear before handing out any monetary awards?

If a rider gets busted within that time, he never would've gotten the money to begin with. If the powers-that-be can not process the tests within a reasonable time-frame, then the rider should get the winnings.

Outside of China, is such a system already in place?
:eek: At the bolded part..

Re: Prize money there's a view here on the matter:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/11/canadian-pro-woods-blasts-astana-rider-davidenok-over-qinghai-lake-dominance-and-doping/

but what ****ed me off most about Qinghai Lake, was the fact that team Astana made almost $100,000 in prize money when that money was not fairly earned.”

5-Hour Energy competitor Woods’ was referring to the 22 year old Ilya Davidenok, the Astana Continental team rider who took the overall classification plus a stage win in the race and who, in his words, was a Kazakhstan version of Ivan Drago.

[He] made the rest of the field his *****,” he said, pointing out that he took the yellow jersey plus the best young rider award, was second in the green jersey classification, dropped climbers on climbs and won a bunch sprint.
EDIT:

Davidenok’s doping test result rankles with Woods, but so too the way that he says the race organisers handled the matter of prizes. “Unlike most UCI races that do not release prize money until six weeks after doping controls have been cleared, Qinghai Lake, like most Chinese races that I know of, simply handed out cash like it was a drug deal.

“At the end of the 13th stage, managers from the team would walk into a room where a box of cash totalling $500,000 sat, and were simply given what they won.

“Although this practice should be awesome, as riders are often desperate to get cash asap, it also opens the door for *******s like Davidenok to come in, clean house, and get away without any repercussion.”

He is clear what the race organiser’s decision means. “Davidenok and Astana literally stole close to $100,000 from the rest of the field, and there is no way we are going to get that money back; bull-****.”
So it seems such a system is already in place...

And I think this Woods fella maybe qualifies for what a clean rider should say in interviews....
 
Dec 7, 2010
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mrhender said:
Re: Prize money there's a view here on the matter:
That's precisely the article I was referencing when I mentioned "Outside of China."

The problem with the "six weeks after doping controls have been cleared," is that we have seen time and again that in-race testing is ineffective, and that longer-term analysis, such as the bio-passport, is the only way to nail some of these guys.

So I suppose I don't really know what the answer is.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Granville57 said:
That's precisely the article I was referencing when I mentioned "Outside of China."
Yes.. That appeared to me after my edit..
My mind is slow tonight :)

Granville57 said:
The problem with the "six weeks after doping controls have been cleared," is that we have seen time and again that in-race testing is ineffective, and that longer-term analysis, such as the bio-passport, is the only way to nail some of these guys.

So I suppose I don't really know what the answer is.
Yes, there is a ineffective system in place..
Few dopers get caught on sight...
And Bio-pass can be years in process..

But I don't think the solution is holding back prize-money for more than a few months, maybe half a year.. It could cause problems for teams below pro-tour-level while having minor impact on the high-level teams and their dopers..
 
difficulty would be that all winnings go into a team "pot" for dividing up amongst the team, so, do you;

a) request all members return their portion? or
b) make the discovered perpertrator refund the winnings from their own pocket? Especially, as other team members may well have been charged but not tested after finishing well down the lists...
 
They should be able to keep the trophy and cash, because:
- it is very easy to make a new trophy, and the only reason to force the rider to return the trophy is to bully him;
- the cash has been divided over several riders and team staff

Of course they should be stripped of their title. But there should not be a new winner.
 
Take the trophy, don't give the title to number two. Look at who got the Giro for crying out loud. Take prize money, that goes to wada, give fine, cause riders get better contracts after winning while doped. Don't crucify them, cause noone is ever gonna confess if that's the case
 
Archibald said:
difficulty would be that all winnings go into a team "pot" for dividing up amongst the team, so, do you;

a) request all members return their portion? or
b) make the discovered perpertrator refund the winnings from their own pocket? Especially, as other team members may well have been charged but not tested after finishing well down the lists...
Well, that does create a hardship unless the winnings are 'frozen' over extended period of time. Just not sure if something like that could be done legally, with inflation, legal ownership, etc.

But I think the price money itself is not as big as bonuses from sponsors, new contracts, etc.
Therefore it should still be refunded and it would be a rider's problem where to get it from. That would also increase the severity of penalties for doping making riders think twice before doing it.

Winnings, or trophies shouldnt be kept. It is just like having someone rob a bank for millions of dollars and go to jail for 2-3 years just to come out and be filthy rich. Doesnt really decrease incentive to commit the crime
 
Oct 9, 2014
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LaFlorecita said:
They should be able to keep the trophy and cash, because:
- it is very easy to make a new trophy, and the only reason to force the rider to return the trophy is to bully him;
- the cash has been divided over several riders and team staff

Of course they should be stripped of their title. But there should not be a new winner.
This is key.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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del1962 said:
I don't agree that there should not be a new winner, just because in some cases the second could be a doper aswell also punishes potentially clean athletes.
Agree with this...

Also if the no-win scenario was applied to all sports, then we would have massive gaps in the history books hence making sports history and results irrelevant.

This would imo be very damning for the spirit of competetion...

I think it is choosing the lesser evil here..

For me it is better to crown a potential doper then nullifying race history..
 
del1962 said:
I don't agree that there should not be a new winner, just because in some cases the second could be a doper aswell also punishes potentially clean athletes.

Exactly. Just because someone doped, and won over clean riders doesn't mean that there shouldnt be a winner. Just disqualify a cheater(s) and reward the best among clean athletes.

Why wouldnt a best cyclist that didn't have illegal substances in his body not be claimed a winner?

edit: RedRick just because you dont like the cyclist or dont rate him very high it doesnt mean he didnt deserve to win as long as he took the shortest time to complete the course among those who didnt violate the course.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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This probably isn't going to go over well with most clinic goers, but I've come to the conclusion that giving someone else the race title is useless (at least in any year from 1990-2015) because there is a high chance that the rest of the podium was doping as well.

Doping punishments should be more severe, but not retroactive. Ban a rider for 4 years, but don't take away his trophy/cash because he probably wasn't the only one all doped up.

And let the criticism flow :eek:
 
damian13ster said:
Exactly. Just because someone doped, and won over clean riders doesn't mean that there shouldnt be a winner. Just disqualify a cheater(s) and reward the best among clean athletes.

Why wouldnt a best cyclist that didn't have illegal substances in his body not be claimed a winner?

edit: RedRick just because you dont like the cyclist or dont rate him very high it doesnt mean he didnt deserve to win as long as he took the shortest time to complete the course among those who didnt violate the course.
This is cycling. Everyone in the top 10 and most likely top 20 of a GT dopes. Get over it.
 
damian13ster said:
Exactly. Just because someone doped, and won over clean riders doesn't mean that there shouldnt be a winner. Just disqualify a cheater(s) and reward the best among clean athletes.

Why wouldnt a best cyclist that didn't have illegal substances in his body not be claimed a winner?

edit: RedRick just because you dont like the cyclist or dont rate him very high it doesnt mean he didnt deserve to win as long as he took the shortest time to complete the course among those who didnt violate the course.
Alleged clean riders.
 
gustienordic said:
This probably isn't going to go over well with most clinic goers, but I've come to the conclusion that giving someone else the race title is useless (at least in any year from 1990-2015) because there is a high chance that the rest of the podium was doping as well.

Doping punishments should be more severe, but not retroactive. Ban a rider for 4 years, but don't take away his trophy/cash because he probably wasn't the only one all doped up.

And let the criticism flow :eek:
I actually agree. :)
 
gustienordic said:
This probably isn't going to go over well with most clinic goers, but I've come to the conclusion that giving someone else the race title is useless (at least in any year from 1990-2015) because there is a high chance that the rest of the podium was doping as well.

Doping punishments should be more severe, but not retroactive. Ban a rider for 4 years, but don't take away his trophy/cash because he probably wasn't the only one all doped up.

And let the criticism flow :eek:
Nah, take the cash away, but rather than distribute it back to the next in line, the proceeds should go directly to the anti dope effort.
 
Damian13ster, why give titles away for getting second? They didn't win, they didn't beat everybody. You can't prove you're clean, and the people that got awarded the titles were just very dodgy at best. Schleck's own brother (the one he's so close with) got away with a payment to Fuentes and later got banned for a year for a positive in the Tour.

Scarponi was already a convicted doper. Lets give him the title, he's such a saint.

You don't promote clean racing, you just promote not getting caught. I'm not gonna go out on a limb when I say I think that every rider who podium'ed a GT this century was doping. Only case I trust a little is probably Thomas de Gendt
 
Oh, and lets award those 7 titles of Lance to the numbers 68, 92, 47, 109, 101, 55 and 139 of those years (or whoever was the highest to be squeeky clean, or at least not a single bit suspious), who didn't even ride for GC and were just water carriers.

You don't go out and award GT titles to people who didn't win them, it devaluates the race itself. You want to have TdF to your name, go out and win it, don't finish 12th and point fingers to the people above you
 
And I would like to add that they should reach a decision wayyyy sooner in these cases, or at least when you let a rider race in the mean time don't take his titles away when you're testing negative while being cleared to race in said race and period.
 

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