King of the Mountains - huh?

[Anonymous]

The King of the Mountains jersey classification is somewhat of a joke and definitely a misnomer. It used to be that whoever was the best climber used to win it but last few years have rendered that untrue. This year in particular though is a bigger joke than usual due to the proliferation of a lot of HC and Tier 1 climbs long way from the finish. They should rename it King of the Breakaway.

The top 6 in the King of the Mountain classification at the moment.

1 Anthony Charteau (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom 143 pts
2 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Caisse d'Epargne 128
3 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 99
4 Sandy Casar (Fra) Française des Jeux 93
5 Jérôme Pineau (Fra) Quick Step 92
6 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom 82

What a joke. These guys are probably not even the best 20 climbers in the tour.

The Solution.

The Tour needs to keep all the HC climbs and the toughest climbs of the day as the last climbs and close to the finish or a mountain-top finish. Mountain top finish is better but a 20 km descent is ok too. None of this 60 km flats after 2 HC climbs nonsense.

With all HC climbs as mountain top finishes, the best would automatically pull the breakaway in, and the GC contenders will have incentives to go for stage wins as well, and the best mountain climbers would actually be wearing the polka dot.

I would have been happy if Contador or Schleck or Menchov or Sanchez etc etc were wearing the polka dot. They might even compete each other for it in addition to podium positions. At the moment this is a joke.

 

[Sasquatch]

Moreau has finished high up in some of the mountaintop finishes.

 

[oevkride]

Cunego has won the Giro. Has Schleck won a gt?

 

[Benotti69]

the answer to your question can be found in the clinic forum. mountain climbing changed in the 90s and climbers have been sidelined ever since.

 

[Ferminal]

Nice list, what a great reward for putting the effort in to get in breaks every mountain stage.

 

[Tim_sleepless]

Presumably you could actually do something these days with technology where you actually timed all the riders up all the climbs, and gave out points purely on the ascent times. Mind you, I guess you'd get some sandbagging by the contenders on the approach.

King of the Descents too... that'd be good for a laugh.

 

[ericthesportsman6]

When I look through the list of winner's from this decade, I'm going to have to disagree. Pellizoti last year, then Kohl, Soler, Rassmussen, and of course virenque. Those are pretty good climbers.

 

[The Hitch]

To help balance it out, have hc mountain tt, like the kronplatz in this years giro, and have say 100 points for it. Obviously people like Schleck and contador will get the 100 and 95 so this would launch them into high placings in the competition, while the kom challengers like moreau and charteu will have to go all out to get the 70 and 60's.

It would test their climbing a bit more, and let the rest of the competition play out the way it does.

 

[Willy_Voet]

When I look through the list of winner's from this decade, I'm going to have to disagree. Pellizoti last year, then Kohl, Soler, Rassmussen, and of course virenque. Those are pretty good climbers.

Yup, and they didn't seem to suffer anonymity as a result of mountain climbing "changing" in the 90's.

 

[abbaskip]

The issue isn't just not having hill top finishes (though I HATE seeing a HC climb in a stage which doesn't finish up hill, it's such a waste of a big climb!)

The problem is all the big climbs during stages, that let riders get away, get loads of points, then get caught, and go out the back...

 

[kurtinsc]

The problem is taking away bonus seconds for stage podiums.

Right now, a GC contender often doesn't care about winning a stage, they just care about their relative position to other GC contenders.

Back when you could get bonus seconds... taking the stage win meant another 20 seconds in addition to what you'd gain by pulling away from the other GC guys.

Would Contador have let the break stay away on 15 if he could get 20 more seconds by having his team pull more earlier on? I doubt it. No way Riblon survives on 14. Not sure about Chavanel on 7 getting away either.

Pulling in the breaks more mean less mountain points available for non-GC guys on the final climbs. A guy who can climb with the top guys to get points but is down far enough to be allowed on a break or two (like Pellizoti last year), would end up winning... rather then break only guys like this year.

 

[nia O'Malley]

Yes, points should increase as you get closer to the finish, i.e. category of the climb x multiplier according to closeness to finish.

As it is nowadays, a gc contender has no chance to get the polka dots as he'll never be let go early, and somebody else would be let go to thwart him anyway; I don't mean one person should get all the jerseys (though they might deserve it) but going for yellow pretty much precludes you are barred from the polka dot. It's some sort of consolation prize for losers. Seeing that jersey consistently trailing on the mountain stages breaks my heart. I understand the tactic, but the jersey is just worthless.

As for Virenque, we'll never know if he truly was a climber or not, unfortunately. Let's not say anymore.

 

[riobonito92]

The last time a fastest sprinter won the points jersey was probably 1994. The best climber won the KoM every year from 2003-2007.

 

[Sasquatch]

The issue isn't just not having hill top finishes (though I HATE seeing a HC climb in a stage which doesn't finish up hill, it's such a waste of a big climb!)

The problem is all the big climbs during stages, that let riders get away, get loads of points, then get caught, and go out the back...

Where are they going to park all the buses on some of those climbs? On steep slopes or up rocky mountains?

Or what. After the stage, all riders have to ride down to the bus at the bottom of the climb?

It's logistically impossible on some of the climbs.

 

[kurtinsc]

The last time a fastest sprinter won the points jersey was probably 1994. The best climber won the KoM every year from 2003-2007.

What?

If Boonen wasn't the fastest sprinter in 2007, then he was pretty darn close. Tied with Bennati for most stage wins by a sprinter. McEwen was definitely the best sprinter in 2006. Boonen was better then Hushovd in 2005... so you're right there. 2004 was pretty even... Boonen and McEwen were on par. Pettachi was probably the best in 2003, ahead of Cooke who actually won. McEwen was the best in 2002 I think. Zabel was the best in 2001. Steels was probably better then Zabel in 2000.

Overall... the best sprinter does seem to win the points jersey... or at least the best still left in the race. Sprinters do often abandon. Last year and this year are a little odd.

 

[Anonymous]

Watch the polka dot jersey join the BUS on the Col du Tourmalet climb today as we all do a /FACEPALM.

Pathetic.

 

[BroDeal]

Jeebus! It is the mountain points jersey not the best climber jersey. The best climber's jersey is usually yellow. The polka dot jersey is designed to provide drama apart from the GC contest.

 

[Dewulf]

Presumably you could actually do something these days with technology where you actually timed all the riders up all the climbs, and gave out points purely on the ascent times. Mind you, I guess you'd get some sandbagging by the contenders on the approach.

King of the Descents too... that'd be good for a laugh.

I love it....probably never see it in the Pro Tour, but it's already been done at a pro/am am level, notably for the breakaway ride this year, with hincapie taking out the overall.

http://www.breakawayride.com/results/

And I also think it's a bit of a joke to have guys who aren't nearly as good as AC/AS winning the mountains jersey. GC guys have to be able to TT as well....what's to stop a pure 110% climber at least coming out to play on the big days like the queen stage, as well as killing it on earlier tour climbs. Seems a team could try to focus on that by getting two riders into a breakaway - the climber who is favoured and a domestique who works for the breakaway and shields the climber.

 

[Wattie]

The last time a fastest sprinter won the points jersey was probably 1994. The best climber won the KoM every year from 2003-2007.

Seriously? Virenque was a better climber than Armstrong in 2004?
Soler was the best climber in the race in 2007? What races were you watching? I might (perhaps) concede that Rasmussen has some claim to being the best climber when he won the KOM.

I think you could argue that the KOM rarely crowns the best climber because the best climbers are usually fighting for the overall and only win KOM if they happen to fall into it as result of how the GC fight pans out (Rominger for example). Riders like Soler, Jalabert or Rinero (KOM in the year Pantani won Yellow!!!) or any number of others won the KOM because they were not threats on GC and so were allowed up the road to acquire KOM points. People seem to think Virenque was a great climber, but I would beg to differ, he was a great KOM points accumulator, but not per se a 'better climber' than Indurain for example. When for example did he actually take time out of Indurain on Tour mountain stages: the answer is almost never (except for 1996, the year Indurain cracked), yet the accumulated time loss by Virenque to Indurain on Tour mountain stages is very considerable indeed.

KOM is a secondary competition and as such it doesn't crown the 'best climber' in the race; it (like any competition) crowns the person most adept at adapting to and exploiting its parameters.

 

[roundabout]

Didn't Rinero finish 4th overall in 1998? I don't think he was even in any long breaks in the mountains that year.

 

[crispy]

Jeebus! It is the mountain points jersey not the best climber jersey. The best climber's jersey is usually yellow. The polka dot jersey is designed to provide drama apart from the GC contest.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[**Uru**]

Wasn't The Chicken way up on the GC when he did his polka dot crash fest in the final TT in 2005? Think he dropped from a potential podium spot that day.

 

[Wattie]

Didn't Rinero finish 4th overall in 1998? I don't think he was even in any long breaks in the mountains that year.

Yes indeed, but the point is that Pantani won the overall. Now who was the greater climber of those two, Rinero or Pantani? I doubt that many people would argue for Rinero. (As I recall Rinero inherited the jersey from Rudolfo Massi who was obliged to leave when the police raided team hotels and detained him and members of his team - I don't recall if he was ever convicted of any doping offence).

Also I don't necessarily mean long breaks; for example Indurain wouldn't contest mountain points, allowing Virenque to jump away a few hundred metres from the top of a climb and claim the points

 

[roundabout]

I see you point, i just think it's slightly unfair to lump Rinero with Soler and especially Jalabert.

 

[Wattie]

I see you point, i just think it's slightly unfair to lump Rinero with Soler and especially Jalabert.

And I see yours; certainly Rinero was nearer the sharp end of the race than any of the people at the top of the KOM in the current edition.

And regarding Jalabert's Polka Dot jerseys: They were pretty much cynically taken by exploiting one long suicide break in each case. I felt at the time they were unworthy of Jalabert who was a great champion, but one who was just a shade light on the attributes needed for Grand tour success. He was a wonderful one day racer and short stage race rider of tremendous versatility. Perhaps he was very good at almost everything, but lacked brilliance in any one area.