LA - when will it all be over for you?

[Muriel]

Similar to the 'when did it start for you?' poll, I'm wondering when people will think this is over.

Why do I ask? Well, I find myself thinking this isn't over yet; despite the USADA sanction, despite public opinion starting slowly to change, despite there seemingly being a growing will on the wider media's part to publish 'Lance doped' stories... I think I'll only know it's over when that incident happens.

So, when is it over for you? What will it take? UCI to agree the sanction? SCA to get their money back? Or perhaps it is already over for you? I sure as hell don't think we'll ever see an admission!

 

[Roland Rat]

For me, we are nearly there. It's when the general public stop asking questions like "do you think he did it?". It's when mainstream press refer to him as a disgraced cheater without qualification. It's when even he sees putting out press releases claiming to be clean is a waste of time. And finally, it's when Livestrong is forced to confront that he has been lying to cancer sufferers and using their money as his own.

Then, when he is utterly disgraced and can't walk down the street without someone looking at him with disdain, he will be done. And I don't think we're that far away.

 

[Roland Rat]

The UCI element is a different matter, however.

 

[SilentAssassin]

I think everyone has their own opinion. Apparently Lance is over it, he's still biking in some races here in USA, giving live strong speeches, etc. so maybe everyone else should get over it.
The guy is retired from cycling, he's 40, and is doing his livestrong thing. I mean the best thing to do now is focus on the future of the sport, making sure no one cheats now...if that is even possible.

 

[Muriel]

Well, yes. An assumption on my part. It might not be over for you until the USADA sanction is rescinded and Armstrong is fully cleared of all charges!

 

[SilentAssassin]

Seriously why would anyone care so much about what happens to LA. I don't know the guy. All I know is he dominated the tour and kind of pssed me off when I was rooting for Menchov all these years.

I'm more eager to see what happens in a tdf with Wiggins, contador, froome, and Andy schleck competing at the same time, and if the sport does get cleaner after this whole fiasco with lance.
Its all about the 2013 tdf for me.

 

[ebandit]

armstrong

i care about all cyclists .............cheering on the good ones when they win and admiring the work of support riders / also rans

when riders are caught out i expect sanctions...........then am happy to see these riders return once any ban ends

i concentrate more thought re team armstrong than other cheats because of the extent of the fraud committted / amount of enrichment

if armstrong had have been sanctioned earlier i would have been content or even if lance had just retired

but he remains an idolised image still playing his part in team armstrong / the livestrong sham

i don't feel bitter about that but will be happier if that myth is accepted as truth by all and that armstrong either withdraws from public life or admits to
any faud committed and that journalists stop pandering to the myth and call out team armstrong for all the lies told

 

[ElChingon]

Seriously why would anyone care so much about what happens to LA. I don't know the guy. All I know is he dominated the tour and kind of pssed me off when I was rooting for Menchov all these years.

I'm more eager to see what happens in a tdf with Wiggins, contador, froome, and Andy schleck competing at the same time, and if the sport does get cleaner after this whole fiasco with lance.
Its all about the 2013 tdf for me.

You can't talk about racing in the clinic! That's off topic!

In a related matter: When Mellow Johnny's is boarded up and empty or filled with trash and bike fragments and there's spiderwebs filling the ceilings. Boarded up because the locals decided to convert the windows into sand via rocks and other hard objects. The place being watched by two guys in a beat up old RV on stilts with tall weeds growing around it talking about when they were kings of the road back in Europe but something went wrong...

 

[Roland Rat]

Seriously why would anyone care so much about what happens to LA. I don't know the guy. All I know is he dominated the tour and kind of pssed me off when I was rooting for Menchov all these years.

I'm more eager to see what happens in a tdf with Wiggins, contador, froome, and Andy schleck competing at the same time, and if the sport does get cleaner after this whole fiasco with lance.
Its all about the 2013 tdf for me.

I think generally it's about what context you hold LA in.

For those who have only watched cycling since say 2000, LA might be "just another doper".

However for those of us who watched the explosion of oxygen vector doping in the '90's; who watched donkeys like Riis take the **** out of the sport in '96 and '97 in particular; who experienced the humiliation of the Festina scandal and the hope that followed the vows from within cycling not to let that happen again; but then see it all fall apart when LA returned and see him take it to a completely new level; to make a complete mockery of the sport, and to treat good people like JV, Frankie, Betsy etc the way that he did; LA has a whole different context.

To us, LA isn't "just another doper"; he is the catalyst. He is the cancer. When he returned in 1999 it wasn't just a return for some bloke from Texas, it was a return to a period we all hoped after 1998 would not happen again. And like all cancers, it needs excising to try to ensure it does not metastasise again.

 

[the big ring]

Man what is this fascination with the Tour de France. It's part of the reason this whole shebang happened in the first place. Ultimate power and all that, you know? You pretenders need to get some Paris-Roubaix into you or something, a real race for real men. There's a beautiful season to enjoy, not just 3 weeks in July. ffs.

It will be over for me when any pro rider can talk openly about doping in sport.

And when they do, they show disdain for it.

When the UCI has been put into a role worthy of its station.

When an independent drug testing organisation has the reins of keeping the peloton clean.

When JV's "we're clean" talk gets smacked down coz it's nothing special, not because it's hard to swallow.

 

["Jeff"]

I just cant get enough of this. I never liked the dude (LA), that whole attitude and typical American behaviour (sorry if I offend anyone).

Greg LeMond was a weirdo and money grubber but I did have respect for him. I only hope he can stop repeating how clean he was (not that I think he wasnt). He also had to leave PDM because he didnt do squat with them (logical after such an accident), but he acts like it was because of the doping they started to use. Some self-reflection Greg, Thanks.

Back to LA, I hope he gets humiliated even more. I've wasted several years of watching that crap. His full US postal team in front until the last climb, just to see LA sprint away to win the stage. Awul, just awful. I think Marco Pantani was tired of that **** too and went to the pharmacy the day before he won the stage to Courchevel in 2000.

 

[Muriel]

So few takers on the actual question then?

I think seeing changes in the UCI (PM to go at the very least) is part of the equation for me. There needs to be some change at that level for me to say 'this is over'.

 

[Benotti69]

I think everyone has their own opinion. Apparently Lance is over it, he's still biking in some races here in USA, giving live strong speeches, etc. so maybe everyone else should get over it.
The guy is retired from cycling, he's 40, and is doing his livestrong thing. I mean the best thing to do now is focus on the future of the sport, making sure no one cheats now...if that is even possible.

I think the best thing anyone can do for their sport is too punish those who cheated however long ago. To do this sets a huge positive example to the future. It says to a rider that even though the DS is telling him they cant test for it, his conscience will say but maybe in a few years they will and all the hard work and graft i did to get here will be iped away when they retest my samples.

Going after Armstrong will hopefully go down as one of the most important moves in the fight against doping. It is definiely the biggest in cycling. Bigger than Festina.

The dethroning of Armstrong will send out a message to lots who might consider doping in the future and if it stops 1 young athlete from doping it will have been worth it.

You also forget that the case of Armstrong is intrinsically tied to the current UCI and the future will be dark if that is not addressed.

So stop the veiled fanboyism of leaving Armstrong and moving on. Catching Armstrong is part of moving forward.

 

[LauraLyn]

Man what is this fascination with the Tour de France. It's part of the reason this whole shebang happened in the first place. Ultimate power and all that, you know? You pretenders need to get some Paris-Roubaix into you or something, a real race for real men. There's a beautiful season to enjoy, not just 3 weeks in July. ffs.

It will be over for me when any pro rider can talk openly about doping in sport.

And when they do, they show disdain for it.

When the UCI has been put into a role worthy of its station.

When an independent drug testing organisation has the reins of keeping the peloton clean.

When JV's "we're clean" talk gets smacked down coz it's nothing special, not because it's hard to swallow.

Totally agree.

 

[LauraLyn]

Similar to the 'when did it start for you?' poll, I'm wondering when people will think this is over.

Why do I ask? Well, I find myself thinking this isn't over yet; despite the USADA sanction, despite public opinion starting slowly to change, despite there seemingly being a growing will on the wider media's part to publish 'Lance doped' stories... I think I'll only know it's over when that incident happens.

So, when is it over for you? What will it take? UCI to agree the sanction? SCA to get their money back? Or perhaps it is already over for you? I sure as hell don't think we'll ever see an admission!

1. Lance Armstrong: a) When Lance Armstrong's TdF wins are stripped by the ASO and, following the FFC suggestion, marked as "a dark era in cycling". b) When Lance Armstrong is not allowed to own or participate in any professional or junior cycling or sports team, ever. c) When the "Lance Armstrong Junior Race Series" is ended. And when Lance Armstrong, just like any other junkie or dope pusher is permanently band from having any contact with young athletes - even going near a school gym. d) When the Lance Armstrong Foundation, LiveStrong, is required to allow all those who contributed to it on the basis of Lance Armstrong's reputation to redirect their donations to a genuine cancer organization. Lance's "work" for cancer is probably the most despicable part of his person: cheating sick victims, survivors, and their families.

2. When no rider ever again is faced with the statement: "The only way you can ride on this team is if you dope." No young rider wants to dope. Doping is stupid and every rider knows it. Doping kills. The riders have been used as gladiators by UCI, USA Cycling, ASO, sponsors, and even fans.

Frankly, I would wish that at the next stage of the Vuelta, the riders would line up on the starting line and refuse to cross that line until all the drugs have been taken out of the team's bags and hotel rooms, until all the corrupt team directors and team "doctors" have been fired, and until they have solid guarantees that no young rider will ever be given the choice "either dope or don't ride".

People should give more attention to Travis Tygart's proposal of a Truth and Reconciliation Process for cycling.

However, the fat lady ain't gonna sing.

 

[Paco_P]

When the average guy in the USA thinks it's just as obvious that Lance dopes as it is that Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, Tyler Hamilton, Ben Johnson, etc. doped.

 

[HL2037]

It's over when UCI is cleaned up thoroughly and reorganized so that conflicts of interest among its officials are eliminated.

 

[Mishrak]

It's over when UCI is cleaned up thoroughly and reorganized so that conflicts of interest among its officials are eliminated.

Exactly. When Pat steps down and the truth is revealed to the world from the governing body and then a Truth commission is set up to make sure this never happens again. That's when it's over and we can start to move on. This is about way more than Lance and his tour victories.

 

[RigelKent]

Many possibilities:
1) It can be over as fast as Lance saying "I cheated" and sings like a little bird. That will be the trigger for the shroud of omerta to lift and Fortress UCI to crumble.
2) If not, it's over when there are no more fanboys on the forums or apologists in the press or contribution to Livestrong.
3) We'll never get rid of cheating, but it will be over when cheating is a personal decision, not one a team pushes you toward. When the riders, DSes, support personnel, team management, sponsors, organizers and the UCI are all as willing to find and get rid of cheats as are WADA, USADA, AFLD and CONI.

 

[LauraLyn]

Many possibilities:
1) It can be over as fast as Lance saying "I cheated" and sings like a little bird. That will be the trigger for the shroud of omerta to lift and Fortress UCI to crumble.
2) If not, it's over when there are no more fanboys on the forums or apologists in the press or contribution to Livestrong.
3) We'll never get rid of cheating, but it will be over when cheating is a personal decision, not one a team pushes you toward. When the riders, DSes, support personnel, team management, sponsors, organizers and the UCI are all as willing to find and get rid of cheats as are WADA, USADA, AFLD and CONI.

1. He never will.
2. Hopefully LiveStrong ("not-for-profit" and for profit) will be shut down by the Feds.
3. So much agree. So much to dream about.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

This is long from over for me.. I will be satisfied when the rest of the inner circle is gone from the sport... that might take a long time..

 

[Carols]

Regarding LA: Other than after ASO officially removing his name as TdF winner it is when his youth cycling ties are gone....having him even speak to a young cyclist is Poison. I could care less about public humiliation or stripping his wealth, just make sure he is not the idol of any young cyclist out there.

Regarding the Sport: Probably not in my lifetime alas. When there is a trustworthy Independent regulatory body in charge.

 

[BotanyBay]

Similar to the 'when did it start for you?' poll, I'm wondering when people will think this is over.

Why do I ask? Well, I find myself thinking this isn't over yet; despite the USADA sanction, despite public opinion starting slowly to change, despite there seemingly being a growing will on the wider media's part to publish 'Lance doped' stories... I think I'll only know it's over when that incident happens.

So, when is it over for you? What will it take? UCI to agree the sanction? SCA to get their money back? Or perhaps it is already over for you? I sure as hell don't think we'll ever see an admission!

Just like this horrible, bad fight scene never seems to end, this bad scene will play on forever. Lance is like a bad John Carpenter film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-MVMbm6c0k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[CharacterFirst]

I think the best thing anyone can do for their sport is too punish those who cheated however long ago. To do this sets a huge positive example to the future. It says to a rider that even though the DS is telling him they cant test for it, his conscience will say but maybe in a few years they will and all the hard work and graft i did to get here will be iped away when they retest my samples.

Going after Armstrong will hopefully go down as one of the most important moves in the fight against doping. It is definiely the biggest in cycling. Bigger than Festina.

The dethroning of Armstrong will send out a message to lots who might consider doping in the future and if it stops 1 young athlete from doping it will have been worth it.

You also forget that the case of Armstrong is intrinsically tied to the current UCI and the future will be dark if that is not addressed.

So stop the veiled fanboyism of leaving Armstrong and moving on. Catching Armstrong is part of moving forward.

It is hard to disagree with this post.

For me it will be when the public are no longer "taken for a ride" by sports of all kinds!

When all involved - corporations, officials, athletes etc, - are clean, honorable, civil, humble, generous, trustworthy and true.

Maybe we will have to wait for the day the man comes around. Bring it on!

 

[benzwire]

Regarding Lance, for me it will take a "blue dress" moment, like when Clinton realized they had indisputable proof that he had sex with Lewinsky. Up until then, he denied, denied, denied. Once he realized there was a dress with DNA, he had no other choice but to admit it.
Similarly Lance is going to continue to avoid questions and deny indefinitely until the proof is so strong, there is no possible way he couldn't have doped and he'll have to come clean.
What will that take? I don't know. Maybe Brunyeel spilling all the beans? I don't see Lance ever admitting to anything unless the evidence is indisputable.