Landis

[blackcat]

qualifier: taking one result can be flawed, and not provide context.


But we can remember hearing that Landis out-tested Armstrong with Ferrari pre-Tour in 2004.

We heard he had a putative 92 VO2max.

And yet he was pack filler in NORBA racing, and lucky to make the cut in UCI mtb World Cups.

So who can justify this result below, well, not justify, but reconcile it with the myth. And where did they myth of apotheosis come from? And hip replacements and Smith&Nephew endorsements.

Landis gives up 4 secs per km to Brent Brookwalter in Utah. Seconds per km is a common comparison benchmark. So, like Wiggins, Brookwalter is a future Tour de France winner, on the back of beating Landis by 23 seconds? This is not about BB, just a reference for Landis.

Landis said earlier this year, he intends to go back to the Tour, and not just to make up the numbers, he said he intends to win the Tour and prove he can win it clean. Yeah right Landis, whatever.

Utah prologue

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/5th-tour-of-utah-ne/stages/stage-1/results
1 Brent Bookwalter (BMC Pro Cycling Team) 0:06:13
2 David Zabriskie (Garmin Slipstream) 0:00:01
3 Ian McKissick (BMC Pro Cycling Team) 0:00:02
4 Ben Jacques-Maynes (Bissell Pro Cycling) 0:00:03
5 Jeff Louder (BMC Pro Cycling Team) 0:00:03
6 Chris Barton (BMC Pro Cycling Team) 0:00:05
7 Francisco Mancebo Perez (Rock Racing) 0:00:05
8 Jesse Sergent (U23 Trek-LIVESTRONG) 0:00:05
9 Nick Frey (Ciclismo Racing) 0:00:07
10 Tom Zirbel (Bissell Pro Cycling) 0:00:08
11 Sam Bewley (U23 Trek-LIVESTRONG) 0:00:08
12 Jeremy Vennell (Bissell Pro Cycling) 0:00:09
13 David Veilleux (Kelly Benefit Strategies) 0:00:09
14 Oscar Sevilla (Rock Racing) 0:00:09
15 John Murphy (OUCH Pro Cycling p/b Maxxis) 0:00:12
16 Jonathan Garcia (BMC Pro Cycling Team) 0:00:13
17 Taylor Shelden (Garmin/Felt) 0:00:13
18 Will Routley (Trek Red Truck Cycling) 0:00:13
19 Christopher Baldwin (OUCH Pro Cycling p/b Maxxis) 0:00:14
20 Paul Mach (Bissell Pro Cycling) 0:00:14
21 Bradley White (OUCH Pro Cycling p/b Maxxis) 0:00:14
22 Glen Chadwick (Rock Racing) 0:00:15
23 Peter Stetina (Garmin/Felt) 0:00:15
24 Tyler Wren (Colavita Olive Oil/Sutter Home) 0:00:16
25 Reid Mumford (Kelly Benefit Strategies) 0:00:16
26 Moises Aldape (Team Type1)
27 Philip Zajicek (Fly V Australia) 0:00:16
28 Timothy Johnson (OUCH Pro Cycling p/b Maxxis) 0:00:17
29 Julian Kyer (U23 Trek-LIVESTRONG) 0:00:17
30 Scott Stewart (Team Waste Management) 0:00:18
31 Benjamin Day (Fly V Australia) 0:00:18
32 Roman Kilun (OUCH Pro Cycling p/b Maxxis) 0:00:18
33 Jonathan Baker (KFAN Composite Team) 0:00:19
34 Alex Howes (Garmin/Felt) 0:00:19
35 Victor Hugo Pena (Rock Racing) 0:00:20
36 Justin England (California Giant Berry Farms) 0:00:20
37 Ben King (U23 Trek-LIVESTRONG) 0:00:21
38 Roman Van Uden (Land Rover-Orbea b/f the LAF)
39 Patrick McCarty (OUCH Pro Cycling p/b Maxxis) 0:00:22
40 Bjorn Selander (U23 Trek-LIVESTRONG) 0:00:22
41 Ryan Baumann (U23 Trek-LIVESTRONG) 0:00:22
42 Aaron Olsen (KFAN Composite Team) 0:00:22
43 Matthew Cooke (RideClean P/B Patentit.com) 0:00:23
44 Matthew Busche (Kelly Benefit Strategies)
45 Dan Bowman (Kelly Benefit Strategies) 0:00:23
46 Frank Pipp (Bissell Pro Cycling) 0:00:23
47 Bobby Sweeting (Land Rover-Orbea b/f the LAF) 0:00:23
48 Peter Horn (Team Rio Grande) 0:00:23
49 Carter Jones (Team Waste Management) 0:00:23
50 Floyd Landis (OUCH Pro Cycling p/b Maxxis)
51 David Clinger (Cole Sport) 0:00:23

 

[blackcat]

Cali

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2009/feb09/california09/?id=results/california090
1 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team Saxo Bank 4.32.9 (51.428 km/h)
2 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 0.01.2
3 David Zabriskie (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0.02.7
4 Michael Rogers (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.02.8
5 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervélo TestTeam 0.03.1
6 George Hincapie (USA) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.03.4
7 Tom Boonen (Bel) Quick Step
8 Mark Renshaw (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.04.1
9 Svein Tuft (Can) Garmin - Slipstream 0.04.2
10 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0.04.3
11 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.04.9
12 Tom Zirbel (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.05.0
13 Ben Jacques-Maynes (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.05.6
14 Tyler Farrar (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0.06.5
15 Charles Bradley Huff (USA) Jelly Belly Cycling Team 0.07.2
16 Oscar Freire (Spa) Rabobank 0.07.4
17 Hayden Roulston (NZl) Cervélo TestTeam 0.07.6
18 John Murphy (USA) OUCH Presented By Maxxis 0.07.9
19 Peter Latham (NZl) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.08.2
20 Christopher Horner (USA) Astana 0.08.5
21 Jeremy Vennell (NZl) Bissell Pro Cycling
22 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0.08.7
23 Andy Jacques-Maynes (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.09.4
24 Dominique Rollin (Can) Cervélo TestTeam 0.10.0
25 Juan José Haedo (Arg) Team Saxo Bank 0.10.5
26 Carlos Barredo (Spa) Quick Step 0.10.7
27 Brett Lancaster (Aus) Cervélo TestTeam 0.10.9
28 Grischa Niermann (Ger) Rabobank 0.11.1
29 Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Team Saxo Bank 0.11.7
30 Edward King (USA) Cervélo TestTeam
31 Jeffry Louder (USA) BMC Racing Team 0.11.8
32 Enrique Gutierrez (Spa) Rock Racing 0.12.1
33 Stef Clement (Ned) Rabobank
34 Karl Menzies (Aus) OUCH Presented By Maxxis 0.12.2
35 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana 0.12.3
36 Thomas Lövkvist (Swe) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.12.5
37 Adam Hansen (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad
38 Gustav Larsson (Swe) Team Saxo Bank 0.12.6
39 Jason McCartney (USA) Team Saxo Bank 0.12.7
40 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Rock Racing 0.12.8
41 José Luis Rubiera (Spa) Astana
42 Bernard Van Ulden (USA) Jelly Belly Cycling Team 0.12.9
43 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas
44 Luis Romero Amaran (Cub) Colavita / Sutter Home p/b Cooking Light 0.13.1
45 Ben Day (Aus) Fly V Australia 0.13.2
46 Steven Cozza (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0.13.3
47 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Astana
48 Kiel Reijnen (USA) Jelly Belly Cycling Team 0.13.4
49 Darren Lill (RSA) Team Type 1 0.13.5
50 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank 0.13.7
51 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.13.8
52 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Rock Racing
53 Grégory Rast (Swi) Astana 0.13.9
54 Pedro Horrillo (Spa) Rabobank 0.14.0
55 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team Saxo Bank 0.14.3
56 Marco Velo (Ita) Quick Step
57 Victor Hugo Peña (Col) Rock Racing
58 Steve Morabito (Swi) Astana 0.14.5
59 Martin Elmiger (Swi) AG2R La Mondiale 0.14.6
60 Scott Nydam (USA) BMC Racing Team 0.14.8
61 Alexandre Moos (Swi) BMC Racing Team 0.15.3
62 Jurgen van de Walle (Bel) Quick Step 0.15.5
63 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank
64 Matthew Crane (USA) Jelly Belly Cycling Team 0.15.6
65 Markus Zberg (Swi) BMC Racing Team 0.15.8
66 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas 0.16.2
67 Thomas Danielson (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0.16.3
68 Michael Barry (Can) Team Columbia - Highroad
69 Chris Baldwin (USA) Rock Racing 0.16.4
70 Kirk O'Bee (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.16.5
71 Tyler Hamilton (USA) Rock Racing 0.16.9
72 Bradley White (USA) OUCH Presented By Maxxis 0.17.2
73 Christophe Riblon (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0.17.3
74 Phil Zajicek (USA) Fly V Australia 0.17.7
75 Serge Pauwels (Bel) Cervélo TestTeam
76 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank 0.17.8
77 Ian McKissick (USA) BMC Racing Team 0.17.9
78 Pieter Weening (Ned) Rabobank 0.18.1
79 Freddy Rodriguez (USA) Rock Racing 0.18.3
80 Curtis Gunn (USA) Fly V Australia 0.18.7
81 Brian Vandborg (Den) Liquigas
82 Alejandro Alberto Borrajo (Arg) Colavita / Sutter Home p/b Cooking Light 0.19.1
83 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank
84 Frank Pipp (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.19.2
85 Matthew Wilson (Aus) Team Type 1 0.19.3
86 Jonathan Clarke (Aus) Jelly Belly Cycling Team
87 Phillip Gaimon (USA) Jelly Belly Cycling Team 0.19.5
88 Valeriy Kobzarenko (Ukr) Team Type 1 0.19.9
89 Kevin de Weert (Bel) Quick Step
90 Floyd Landis (USA) OUCH Presented By Maxxis 0.20.4

 

[blackcat]

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2009/feb09/california09/?id=results/california096
1 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 30.41 (47.15km/h)
2 David Zabriskie (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0.08
3 Gustav Larsson (Swe) Team Saxo Bank 0.17
4 Michael Rogers (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.22
5 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team Saxo Bank 0.30
6 George Hincapie (USA) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.36
7 Tom Zirbel (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.39
8 Jason Mccartney (USA) Team Saxo Bank 0.41
9 Stef Clement (Ned) Rabobank 0.43
10 Thomas Lövkvist (Swe) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.51
11 Ben Jacques-Maynes (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.55
12 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 1.09
13 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank 1.15
14 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 1.16
15 Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Team Saxo Bank
16 Luis Romero Amaran (Cub) Colavita / Sutter Home p/b Cooking Light 1.17
17 Jeremy Vennell (NZl) Bissell Pro Cycling 1.20
18 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana 1.21
19 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Rock Racing 1.22
20 Svein Tuft (Can) Garmin - Slipstream 1.23
21 Ian McKissick (USA) BMC Racing Team 1.26
22 Rory Sutherland (Aus) OUCH Presented By Maxxis
23 Grischa Niermann (Ger) Rabobank 1.36
24 Christopher Horner (USA) Astana 1.39
25 Thomas Danielson (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 1.42
26 Christophe Riblon (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
27 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank
28 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 1.43
29 Enrique Gutierrez (Spa) Rock Racing 1.47
30 Hayden Roulston (NZl) Cervélo TestTeam 1.49
31 Carlos Barredo (Spa) Quick Step 1.53
32 Frank Pipp (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 1.58
33 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 2.02
34 Timothy Johnson (USA) OUCH Presented By Maxxis 2.03
35 Jurgen van de Walle (Bel) Quick Step
36 Alexandre Moos (Swi) BMC Racing Team 2.05
37 Kevin Seeldraeyers (Bel) Quick Step 2.06
38 Dominique Rollin (Can) Cervélo TestTeam 2.07
39 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Astana
40 José Luis Rubiera (Spa) Astana 2.10
41 Iñigo Cuesta (Spa) Cervélo TestTeam 2.11
42 Valeriy Kobzarenko (Ukr) Team Type 1 2.13
43 Martin Elmiger (Swi) AG2R La Mondiale 2.23
44 Bernard Van Ulden (USA) Jelly Belly Cycling Team 2.26
45 Michael Barry (Can) Team Columbia - Highroad 2.27
46 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - Highroad 2.28
47 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank
48 Karl Menzies (Aus) OUCH Presented By Maxxis 2.29
49 Brian Vandborg (Den) Liquigas 2.35
50 Adam Hansen (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad 2.36
51 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank 2.41
52 Thomas Frei (Swi) BMC Racing Team 2.42
53 Peter Latham (NZl) Bissell Pro Cycling 2.43
54 Floyd Landis (USA) OUCH Presented By Maxxis

 

[blackcat]

Redlands

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/2009/mar09/redlands09/redlands090
1 Ben Day (Aus) Fly V Australia/Successful Living 9.19 (32.200 km/h)
2 Brent Bookwalter (USA) BMC Racing Team 0.04
3 Tom Zirbel (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.07
4 Chris Baldwin (USA) Rock Racing 0.09
5 Jeff Louder (USA) BMC Racing Team 0.12
6 Ben Jacques-Maynes (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.13
7 Rory Sutherland (Aus) Ouch p/b Maxxis 0.19
8 Luis Romero Amaran (Col) Colavita Sutter Home 0.22
9 Corey Collier (USA) Team Hotel San Jose 0.23
10 Carter Jones (USA) Team Waste Management
11 Florian Stalder (Swi) BMC Racing Team 0.24
12 Matthew Crane (USA) Jelly Belly 0.25
13 Jeremy Vennell (NZl) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.26
14 Jacob Erker (USA) Kelly Benefits Strategies
15 Peter Stetina (USA) Garmin-Holoweko Partners-Felt 0.27
16 Chris Barton (USA) BMC Racing Team
17 Darren Lill (RSA) Team Type 1
18 Jackson Stewart (USA) BMC Racing Team 0.28
19 Heath Blackgrov (NZl) Team Hotel San Jose
20 Kiel Reijnen (USA) Jelly Belly 0.29
21 Chad Beyer (USA) BMC Racing Team
22 Bernard Van Ulden (USA) Jelly Belly 0.31
23 Cesar Grajales (Cub) Rock Racing 0.32
24 Frank Pipp (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling
25 Tim Johnson (USA) Ouch p/b Maxxis
26 Dan Vaillancourt (USA) Colavita Sutter Home 0.34
27 Scott Nydam (USA) BMC Racing Team
28 Tyler Wren (USA) Colavita Sutter Home
29 Burke Swindlehurst (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling
30 Matthew Cooke (USA) Ride Clean Team 0.35
31 Andrew Bajadali (USA) Kelly Benefits Strategies 0.37
32 Alex Howes (USA) Garmin-Holoweko Partners-Felt
33 Will Routley (Can) Jelly Belly
34 Karl Menzies (Aus) Ouch p/b Maxxis 0.38
35 Shawn Milne (USA) Team Type 1 0.39
36 Caleb Fairly (USA) Garmin-Holoweko Partners-Felt
37 Mike Creed (USA) Rock Racing 0.40
38 Reid Mumford (USA) Kelly Benefits Strategies
39 Roman Kilun (USA) Ouch p/b Maxxis
40 Justin England (USA) California Giant-Specialized 0.41
41 Phillip Zajicek (USA) Fly V Australia/Successful Living 0.43
42 Floyd Landis (USA) Ouch p/b Maxxis 0.44


Gila

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/2009/apr09/gila09/gila093
1 Levi Leipheimer (Mellow Johnny's) 32.59
2 Tom Zirbel (Bissell Pro Cycling) 0.53
3 Lance Armstrong (Mellow Johnny's) 1.23
4 Philip Zajicek (Fly V Australia-Successful) 1.36
5 Peter Stetina (Felt-Holowesko Partners) 1.50
6 Christopher Baldwin (BOULDER) 1.51
7 Ben Day (Fly V Australia-Successful) 2.03
8 Darren Lill (Team Type 1) 2.04
9 Scott Nydam (Team B) 2.13
10 Scott Zwizanski (Kelly Benefit Strategies) 2.15
11 Burke Swindlehurst (Bissell Pro Cycling) 2.19
12 Benjamin Kneller (Ciclismo Racing) 2.20
13 Chris Horner (Mellow Johnny's) 2.23
14 Ben Jacques-Maynes (Bissell Pro Cycling) 2.30
15 Ben King (Fly V Australia-Successful) 2.31
16 Jeremy Vennell (Bissell Pro Cycling) 2.32
17 Chad Beyer (Team B) 2.39
18 Paul Mach (Bissell Pro Cycling) 2.46
19 Florian Stalder (Team B)
20 Francois Parisien (PLANET ENERGY Pro) 2.51
21 Anthony Colby (Colavita Sutter Home p/b) 2.53
22 Rory Sutherland (OUCH Pro Cycling Team p/b) 2.55
23 Matt Cooke (RideClean) 2.57
24 Roman Kilun (OUCH Pro Cycling Team p/b) 3.00
25 Bradley White (OUCH Pro Cycling Team p/b) 3.06
26 Valeriy Kobzarenko (Team Type 1)
27 Jesse Sergent (Trek Livestrong) 3.08
28 Cameron Evans (OUCH Pro Cycling Team p/b) 3.10
29 Tim Johnson (OUCH Pro Cycling Team p/b) 3.12
30 Julian Kyer (Trek Livestrong) 3.13
31 Matt Wilson (Team Type 1) 3.14
32 Michael Olheiser (Warp9bikes.com/tristar) 3.23
33 John Chodroff (OUCH Pro Cycling Team p/b) 3.27
34 Scott Tietzel (DLP Racing) 3.28
35 Andrew Randell (PLANET ENERGY Pro) 3.33
36 Shawn Milne (Team Type1) 3.34
37 Tyler Wren (Colavita Sutter Home p/b) 3.37
38 Jonathan Mumford (Kelly Benefit Strategies) 3.38
39 Neil Shirley (Kelly Benefit Strategies)
40 Daniel Vaillancourt (Colavita Sutter Home p/b) 3.43
41 Jesse Moore (California Giant-Specialized) 3.45
42 Alex Howes (Felt-Holowesko Partners)
43 Taylor Phinney (Trek Livestrong) 3.46
44 Mike Northey (Land Rover-ORBEA)
45 Andrew Talansky (Amore & Vita-McDonald's) 3.47
46 Corey Collier (Team Rio Grande)
47 Sam Bewley (Trek Livestrong) 3.48
48 Bjorn Selander (Trek Livestrong)
49 Graham Howard (Bissell Pro Cycling) 3.50
50 Matthew Busche (ISCorp Cycling Team/Nova) 3.51
51 John Eisinger (Ciclismo Racing) 4.00
52 Floyd Landis (OUCH Pro Cycling Team p/b) 4.04

 

[scribe]

Ouch, is right.

 

[blackcat]

now lets compare Floyd's 2006 chronos.

Cali

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/feb06/california06/?id=results/california060
1 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 4.53.43
2 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 0.04.76
3 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 0.05.67
4 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.06.12
5 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 0.09.37
6 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team CSC 0.09.76
7 Jason McCartney (USA) Discovery Channel 0.10.26
8 Hayden Roulston (NZl) Health Net p/b Maxxis 0.10.67
9 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Discovery Channel 0.10.79
10 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 0.11.40

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/feb06/california06/?id=results/california063
1 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 35.58.91
2 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 0.25.62
3 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 0.34.98
4 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 0.55.04
5 Nathan O'Neill (Aus) Health Net p/b Maxxis 0.56.83
6 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team CSC 1.02.28
7 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Discovery Channel 1.02.84
8 Hayden Roulston (NZl) Health Net p/b Maxxis 1.07.75
9 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 1.16.06
10 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 1.22.73


Dauphine

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/dauphinelibere06/?id=results/dauphinelibere060
1 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 4.35.84 (53.509 km/h)
2 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.01.88
3 Stuart O'grady (Aus) Team CSC 0.06.07
4 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 0.06.91
5 Joost Posthuma (Ned) Rabobank 0.07.35
6 Stijn Devolder (Bel) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.07.40
7 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 0.07.61
8 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.07.70
9 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.08.00
10 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Würth 0.08.19

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/dauphinelibere06/?id=results/dauphinelibere063
1 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 52.48.65 (48.854 km/h)
2 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.53.00
3 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 1.16.50
4 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 1.34.83
5 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.38.12
6 Marco Pinotti (Ita) Saunier Duval-Prodir 1.54.00
7 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 1.54.26
8 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 1.57.34
9 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 2.02.87
10 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 2.03.31
11 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 2.04.92


Tour

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=results/tour060
1 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Crédit Agricole 8.17.00 (51.43 km/h)
2 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 0.00.73
3 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 0.04.21
4 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 0.04.80
5 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 0.04.92
6 Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Team CSC 0.04.93
7 Michael Rogers (Aus) T-Mobile 0.06.30
8 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 0.08.02
9 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak 0.09.26
10 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 0.10.09

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=results/tour067
1 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr) T-Mobile 1.01.43.60 (50.54 km/h)
2 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak 1.00.62
3 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 1.04.27
4 Michael Rogers (Aus) T-Mobile 1.23.87
5 Gustav Larsson (Swe) Francaise Des Jeux 1.33.48
6 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger) T-Mobile 1.38.65
7 Marcus Fothen (Ger) Gerolsteiner 1.41.77
8 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile 1.43.26
9 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 1.43.90
10 Joost Posthuma (Ned) Rabobank 1.44.41
11 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 1.49.39
12 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 1.51.68
13 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 1.56.59

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=results/tour0619
1 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr) T-Mobile 1.07.45 (50.48 km/h)
2 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile 0.41
3 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak 1.11
4 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 2.40
5 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 3.18
6 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 3.35
7 Viatscheslav Ekimov (Rus) Discovery Channel 3.41
8 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto
9 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Phonak 3.43
10 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Fondital 3.44
11 David Millar (GBr) Saunier Duval 4.01

Its not about the bike. Its about the blood. Like Ullrich said, he can't help anyone who cannot see what has been going on in cycling in the past decades. I submit into evidence, Landis as exhibit 1.

qualifier are numerous flaws and restrictions, this is not 2006 when he was ambitious, but the proof is there, he is not the Tour calibre rider when clean, far from it.

JV's Jeffersonian good faith is really a PR slant, or, worse, it is a deluded faith, but I do not think he is deluded, just expedient.

Landis, Hamilton, Armstrong, and I would add the rest of the US crop, who have ridden high on GC in the last decade, you know 'em. Its about the blood (parameters).

 

[blackcat]

Ah, top third is not too bad. It can take awhile to get back into it.

yeah, it took Lance all of 3 years, then jumps back into the TDU and animates the race.

It is not the position, it is the "seconds per km" he is giving up, on riders he would have pumped about 3 years ago when he was on a comprehensive medical program. He is now only a mediocre US domestic pro.

My qualifier is his hip. And his health, both physical and mental. Do have an element of empathy, but he never concerned himself with Lemond, he and Will Geoghagen's contemptible act.

But I am sceptical on the hip. First we were told in the NY Times magazine it was dying, and with glossy advertisements for Smpith&Nephew on the side. Then we hear that the replacement surgery is just a resurfacing, and the hip is ALIVE! The ball of his femur is ALIVE! It was a miracle... <eyes roll>

 

[elapid]

Its all about the blood, VO2 max, and, oh wait, the hips. One thing you haven't put into that equation is that Floyd has had a total hip replacement and no one really knows what effect that will have on bike position, biomechanics and efficiency. I am sure his head is also not fully in the game either after losing nearly all his money and his wife. I have no doubt he doped and I am glad he seems to have returned to clean racing, but someone like Tyler Hamilton would be a better example (other than the mental aspect of the game) of performances pre- and post-sanction because he didn't have a potentially career-threatening (at least altering) total hip replacement.

Blackcat - I was writing the above while you were posting your reply.

 

[blackcat]

Its all about the blood, VO2 max, and, oh wait, the hips. One thing you haven't put into that equation is that Floyd has had a total hip replacement and no one really knows what effect that will have on bike position, biomechanics and efficiency. I am sure his head is also not fully in the game either after losing nearly all his money and his wife. I have no doubt he doped and I am glad he seems to have returned to clean racing, but someone like Tyler Hamilton would be a better example (other than the mental aspect of the game) of performances pre- and post-sanction because he didn't have a potentially career-threatening (at least altering) total hip replacement.

Blackcat - I was writing the above while you were posting your reply.

and the first post above, adds in the qualifier. The original post in the thread that is.

And the hip replacement, was not. It was a resuracing of the ball of the femur I believe. There was a big Smith&Nephew sale, behind Landis. Much Like Bristol Myers and Armstrong. It was Capital Sports & Entertainment 101.

Yes, I acknowledged those factors. The hip was fine when he was getting his **** handed to him on the NORBA circuit tho.

 

[blackcat]

and the first post above, adds in the qualifier. The original post in the thread that is.

And the hip replacement, was not. It was a resuracing of the ball of the femur I believe. There was a big Smith&Nephew sale, behind Landis. Much Like Bristol Myers and Armstrong. It was Capital Sports & Entertainment 101.

Yes, I acknowledged those factors. The hip was fine when he was getting his **** handed to him on the NORBA circuit tho.

oh, and Elapid. I was meant to stress.

Landis himself said, he would come back to the Tour, to win. He said that. If his hip is truly shot, would he have been no forthright? That underpinned much, his braggadocio and arrogance, and belief he can get back and win. Ofcourse, since the quote, he may have had complications on the hip.

Point is I cannot trust these riders as far as I could throw them, (admittedly, not far, unless it was Jose Rujano)

 

[dienekes88]

yeah, it took Lance all of 3 years, then jumps back into the TDU and animates the race.

It is not the position, it is the "seconds per km" he is giving up, on riders he would have pumped about 3 years ago when he was on a comprehensive medical program. He is now only a mediocre US domestic pro.

My qualifier is his hip. And his health, both physical and mental. Do have an element of empathy, but he never concerned himself with Lemond, he and Will Geoghagen's contemptible act.

But I am sceptical on the hip. First we were told in the NY Times magazine it was dying, and with glossy advertisements for Smpith&Nephew on the side. Then we hear that the replacement surgery is just a resurfacing, and the hip is ALIVE! The ball of his femur is ALIVE! It was a miracle... <eyes roll>

Avascular osteonecrosis isn't a binary thing, and hip resurfacing is regularly used to treat it. Yes, parts were dying. I'm not sure why you're rolling your eyes.

 

[usedtobefast]

i think his mental state is a big part of it. he just seems unmotivated. he has been through a lot. the hip, who knows?

 

[pedaling squares]

Well the numbers by themselves look pretty devastating to his claim. Good point about the hip & mental state. Does anyone know about an interview where FL has said if his hip is currently affecting (better or worse) his ability to ride?

 

[blackcat]

Avascular osteonecrosis isn't a binary thing, and hip resurfacing is regularly used to treat it. Yes, parts were dying. I'm not sure why you're rolling your eyes.

take your case up with an orthopedic surgeon. I am a lay person. I concern myself with the myth and manipulation in the media. And Landis and Will Geoghagen played that. It was Armstrong's tactic. These riders should be help up for hoodwinking the public and the fans, and not feted as gladiators of the road. There are genuine riders, who slave themselves for anonymous results, and mediocre salaries. Those are the riders that deserve our acclaim.

So I am guilty of using license and hyperbole.

 

[blackcat]

Well the numbers by themselves look pretty devastating to his claim. Good point about the hip & mental state. Does anyone know about an interview where FL has said if his hip is currently affecting (better or worse) his ability to ride?

nope, only soudbites with Floyd coming out and asserting he could and would win the Tour in his return.

 

[blackcat]

Just noticed how close together all the riders are on time. Am I reading that right? Landis was only 23 seconds off?

yep, but 6km prologue v domestic pros.

 

[Titaniumtim]

Well I would have to say by his performance so far that he is racing clean now.

 

[elapid]

Landis himself said, he would come back to the Tour, to win. He said that. If his hip is truly shot, would he have been no forthright? That underpinned much, his braggadocio and arrogance, and belief he can get back and win. Ofcourse, since the quote, he may have had complications on the hip.

And McEwen says he will come back and beat Cavendish, recovering from a busted leg, 16 or so years older and without Cav's train. Because someone says he is going to do something doesn't mean they are actually capable of doing it. Look at boxers and all their smack talk. This may not be much different.

Bottom line, I am in agreement with you. I think he doped and now he is racing clean. I am not sure how much his hip or mental state have to do with his current form, but they may contribute. I actually think it is a good thing that riders like Floyd return to the peloton so fans can see the difference between doped and undoped riders, and the fact that professional cyclists are mere mortals as well.

 

[Max Cadence]

Landis is racing, enjoying it, and probably having a beer or two at night. Be happy for him. Oh, and getting paid. I think he is a success.

 

[131313]

instead of even caring about Landis, who quite frankly seems to be racing for fun and doesn't even seem to train all that much, or obsessing about JV and Garmin, why don't you turn your attention to those who are really mocking the system:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/5th-tour-of-utah-ne/stages/stage-2/results

 

[elapid]

instead of even caring about Landis, who quite frankly seems to be racing for fun and doesn't even seem to train all that much, or obsessing about JV and Garmin, why don't you turn your attention to those who are really mocking the system:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/5th-tour-of-utah-ne/stages/stage-2/results

I agree to a certain extent, but I personally have problems with the whole fallout from Operacion Puerto. Fifty plus riders are named, Basso eventually admits to "attempted" doping, Ullrich retires, Valverde is now being targeted, many riders are unemployed, some like Mancebo and Sevilla take huge pay cuts to continue racing in non-ProTour teams, and all the while Contador is winning GTs. Operacion Puerto ended up being a huge cluster f--k where no one really won and there was no consistency in the fallout.

 

[neptun1s]

instead of even caring about Landis, who quite frankly seems to be racing for fun and doesn't even seem to train all that much, or obsessing about JV and Garmin, why don't you turn your attention to those who are really mocking the system:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/5th-tour-of-utah-ne/stages/stage-2/results

If I were a pro racing in Utah today (and I personally know many who are), I'd be sick seeing those guys go 1-2.

 

[Race Radio]

instead of even caring about Landis, who quite frankly seems to be racing for fun and doesn't even seem to train all that much, or obsessing about JV and Garmin, why don't you turn your attention to those who are really mocking the system:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/5th-tour-of-utah-ne/stages/stage-2/results

Good point. Mancabo, Schleck, Valverde, they seem to show no remorse. The fact that they are allowed to continue to race is a joke.

 

[hulkgogan]

I've heard quite a few rumours that Floyd is hitting the booze hard but haven't been able to substantiate it beyond hearsay.

Anyone?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Heard the same thing Hulk. No proof though.

Its not about the bike...I submit into evidence, Landis as exhibit 1.

You also mention Hamilton and LA, and you know I agree. But why focus on these three guys, especially Landis, who has already been kicked to the curb? Aren't most of the top riders guilty of your accusations? Or are we implying that Floyd was more doped than the rest of them, and even though he lost everything and has been shamed, that somehow makes him more guilty?

Agree completely with you BC on Geohagen. You should have added Maurice Suh and the rest of Floyd's legal team who pretty much wasted USADA's time, tax payers money (and some gullible fans). CAS could have nailed them with a bigger fine then they actually did. .

Who knows on the hip? The peculiar thing is that to the best of my knowledge, not one single time has Floyd used it as an excuse for his poor performance.

I actually think it is a good thing that riders like Floyd return to the peloton so fans can see the difference between doped and undoped riders.

That's how I tend to see it.

instead of even caring about Landis...why don't you turn your attention to those who are really mocking the system:

I think because Landis "won" the Tour, and now is an average rider. And he and his legal team made a mockery of the system?

I agree though with you, and Neptun1s, Floyd is done. He fell as far as anyone could, there are plenty of others who cheated, maybe as much as he ever did, and they are not only racing but got off scott free. Many of them, many, are very likely doped, even to the extent that BigBoat insinuates, but are still riding, while it's pretty likely Floyd is racing clean.

I would indeed like to know when Floyd tested with a VO2Max of 92? Was he really clean at that time? Assuming not, and the number is cooked, it might explain how he went from being a superb TT rider, to now being almost to Cat 2 level.