LA's Lawyers -- What Is Their Game?

[Page Mill Masochist]

Facts not on their side, Herman and Daly are trying to cast doubt on the process. Novitzky is bribing witnesses! Waste of taxpayer money! Celebrity witch hunt!

Will this tactic work? I hope not, but then Lance's $200m and Weisel's $1B can buy a lot of political influence.

Any chance the LA team can get this case dropped?

 

[tubularglue]

Not contacted

No plan

 

[scribe]

Deny to investigators and on the stand. Insist on evidence contrary to years of doping controls.

 

[bridgeman]

I have no idea where this will lead, but it is looking pretty ugly.

Oh, and Page Mill is still a beast.

 

[tockit]

Facts not on their side, Herman and Daly are trying to cast doubt on the process. Novitzky is bribing witnesses! Waste of taxpayer money! Celebrity witch hunt!

Will this tactic work? I hope not, but then Lance's $200m and Weisel's $1B can buy a lot of political influence.

Any chance the LA team can get this case dropped?

I'm sure it will be the same ol' ..... try to destroy the witness's credibility (which for Landis, that won't be very hard).

I also think they'll capitalize on LA being the 'target of a witch-hunt' thereby trying to gain sympathy and win over the court of public opinion.

You can bet on more preaching of the 'never tested positive' BS, while playing up the 'all I've done for the cancer community/cycling' stuff will be mentioned a lot.


The fact that LA is a high profile celebrity with tons of connections (right or wrong) could work out in his favor.

For pete sake, the guy cycled with a sitting President, rubs elbows with politicians/Presidential candidates, etc, plus the fact that he's loaded.

I'm sure he could call in some favors, if need be.


Like they say, 'you know what the difference between a good lawyer and a great lawyer is ???'........

A good lawyer knows the law, but a great lawyer knows the judge!

Whatever the case, it should be interesting.....

 

[BroDeal]

Facts not on their side, Herman and Daly are trying to cast doubt on the process. Novitzky is bribing witnesses! Waste of taxpayer money! Celebrity witch hunt!

Will this tactic work? I hope not, but then Lance's $200m and Weisel's $1B can buy a lot of political influence.

Any chance the LA team can get this case dropped?

No way. One thing a politician never ever wants to do is to risk being seen as derailing or even influencing an investigation. Just the hint of that has a huge potential for front page scandal. A politician could not do much more harm to himself by getting caught waggling his weenie at kids in a public park.

 

[erader]

"the glove doesn't fit so you must acquit."

erader

 

[ProfTournesol]

Their biggest problem is in having any investigation finish with an OJ Simpson type of result: not guilty in law but hung drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion. If LA is really focused on an apres-cycling political career then his main focus and strategy will be on winning the court of public opinion trial.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

"the glove doesn't fit so you must acquit."

erader

And that was for double murder!

I think what the prosecution have to do is get something so clear cut that the jury won't be able to give any other verdict. That will be hard because nobody really believes this case should be happening in the first place - have you noticed no one on the forum comes out and says this SHOULD be happening, they just say what they think will happen, as if this was some natural disaster where no moral opinion is required.

They're having a lot of fun with it but nobody really believes Armstrong should be the only guy ever to be prosecuted for winning the tour doped against guys who doped. It's funny just thinking about it.

 

[ManInFull]

"the glove doesn't fit so you must acquit."

erader

Johnny Cochran, RIP.

The real question is how many ex Postal/Disco riders who have doped but not failed a test will confirm much of what Landis has claimed. If there are multiple riders who do this, then it will not matter what defense LA's attorneys use.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Their biggest problem is in having any investigation finish with an OJ Simpson type of result: not guilty in law but hung drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion. If LA is really focused on an apres-cycling political career then his main focus and strategy will be on winning the court of public opinion trial.

Imaginations are running wild with these OJ comparisons. The American people may not be that smart about cycling, but I think they can tell the difference between doping and double murder.

But you make an interesting point - getting this all out there now might help him in the long run. I think some sort of admission was always on the cards in the future - that's why Landis spitefully deprived him of doing it on his own terms, Riis style. But who knows, it might be better this way in the end. It's funny how things turn out.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Johnny Cochran, RIP.

The real question is how many ex Postal/Disco riders who have doped but not failed a test will confirm much of what Landis has claimed. If there are multiple riders who do this, then it will not matter what defense LA's attorneys use.

Defense for what? Remember this is not a doping trial.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Too Cynical?

"the glove doesn't fit so you must acquit."

erader

Yeah pretty much. Bit of synchronizing witness stories, helping others with their legal fees and dropping hints about future business possibilities if "everyone comes through this unscathed" is another possible strategy.

High risk maneuver, but LA appears to enjoy a little brinkmanship with the authorities.

 

[scribe]

Their biggest problem is in having any investigation finish with an OJ Simpson type of result: not guilty in law but hung drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion. If LA is really focused on an apres-cycling political career then his main focus and strategy will be on winning the court of public opinion trial.

He has enough money, so that isn't a concern regarding future endeavors. I'd say he is trying to save his legacy, the foundation, and his tail from the jail. In pretty close order.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

And that was for double murder!

I think what the prosecution have to do is get something so clear cut that the jury won't be able to give any other verdict. That will be hard because nobody really believes this case should be happening in the first place - have you noticed no one on the forum comes out and says this SHOULD be happening, they just say what they think will happen, as if this was some natural disaster where no moral opinion is required.

They're having a lot of fun with it but nobody really believes Armstrong should be the only guy ever to be prosecuted for winning the tour doped against guys who doped. It's funny just thinking about it.

Everyone say hello to BPC.

 

[ProfTournesol]

we talk about it being a case against LA but it's really a case against Tailwind management and riders including LA. As LA has the biggest profile and has been the most belligerent, the focus is sharpest on him. I think the "you're picking on me it isn't fair" line will be the one that the defence team use as this will have the most traction in the court of public opinion.

 

[131313]

Big Tex's lawyers better stick to the law and get out of the PR game. They are embarrassing themselves, seriously.

“If Lance Armstrong came in second in those Tour de France races, there’s no way that Lance Armstrong would be involved in these cases,” Daly said.

'cause they never go after the guys who finish second.


oh....wait.....

There isn't a single guy who finished second who hasn't been investigated or sanctioned, and the guy who finished second most often settled with his government to avoid sporting fraud charges? What the hell are these guys talking about?

Now, they're spewing nonsense about how the investigation is "un-American?" Newsflash: the "French are out to get us" allusion doesn't carry much weight when the accusers are, well, American.

Big Tex needs a new narrative, and fast. These clowns are behaving like amateurs, and he's losing Lance Armstrong's PR War, and fast...

 

[Joe Bloggs]

we talk about it being a case against LA but it's really a case against Tailwind management and riders including LA. As LA has the biggest profile and has been the most belligerent, the focus is sharpest on him. I think the "you're picking on me it isn't fair" line will be the one that the defence team use as this will have the most traction in the court of public opinion.

Officially, yes, but a prosecutor doesn't make a big name for himself and tries to tightly control the media to spread his message by going after some company nobody has ever heard of. This is focused on getting the most famous guy they can. That's clear from the way they are happy to allow riders who cheerily doped for years to get immunity if they grass up Armstrong.

It's a bit like this forum - it's not about doping, it's about Armstrong as a person.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think Tockit said it pretty well. Constant denial. Then outside spin to discredit those who testify as having an axe to grind, hating him, etc. (think Besty Andreu, Greg Lemond, Mike Anderson, Emma O'Reilly, etc.), they'll also try to counter this bringing up the cyclists who contradicted these "haters" and take bullets for Lance. Then they'll bring up no hard evidence, spiced with more of the "most tested" and "never tested positive" and efforts to spin that.

As to criminal charges. Like, fraud, tax evasion, racketeering, or whatever else they try to stick to him, that he'll deflect to "I'm a cyclist, not a CEO" and "The only business dealings are for my cancer foundation to help cancer patients." If CEO and board members of mega corporations (Enron, WorldCom) that get busted for serious securities violations can plea ignorance, so can Lance.

But his general combative nature and hubris are not going to help him. When you get in this deep of a mess you want to come to it looking like the good victim who made a mistake, ask for forgiveness with hat in hand. There's no way he can do that. The evidence will be piled against him, and it's not in his nature, at all.

I still don't see him going to jail, or being essentially charged with doping. But I do see his reputation being fairly heavily tarnished by this, and people forever suspecting or assuming he doped through much of his career.

 

[Anonymous]

Their only hope at this point is the Chewbacca Defense.

 

[131313]

I think Tockit said it pretty well. Constant denial. Then outside spin to discredit those who testify as having an axe to grind, hating him, etc. (think Besty Andreu, Greg Lemond, Mike Anderson, Emma O'Reilly, etc.),

This only works to a point, then you start looking like Scarface of Michael Corleone (or, I guess, Al Pacino...). Big Tex is getting close. When he starts trying to paint some fresh-faced, popular boy-next-door rider" as a bitter loser, even John Q. Public won't by it.

As to criminal charges. Like, fraud, tax evasion, racketeering, or whatever else they try to stick to him, that he'll deflect to "I'm a cyclist, not a CEO" and "The only business dealings are for my cancer foundation to help cancer patients." If CEO and board members of mega corporations (Enron, WorldCom) that get busted for serious securities violations can plea ignorance, so can Lance.


I still don't see him going to jail, or being essentially charged with doping. But I do see his reputation being fairly heavily tarnished by this, and people forever suspecting or assuming he doped through much of his career.

"Charged with doping?". I don't know if the fed investigation will really get much traction, but after a couple of riders are on the record of claiming systematic doping, USAC will have no other option but to act in some way or another. I'd be amazed if avoided sanction.

 

[pedaling squares]

If LA is really focused on an apres-cycling political career then his main focus and strategy will be on winning the court of public opinion trial.

I think even Lance knows that this dream is over. If he thinks things are nasty now, wait until he enters politics and sees what real mud-slinging is like.

I think Alpe summed up a reasonable and traditional defence. Make everyone against you appear to be someone who hates you and has an axe to grind. Attack their credibility and have a field day with Floyd's. Build up HV and PM as highly credible and successful businessmen and have them testify. The weakness to this defence is if people with something to lose, nothing to gain, and no apparent credibility issues, like George Hincapie, testify that you took drugs and the team sold bikes. Then you switch to Chewbacca.

 

[MacRoadie]

Build up HV and PM as highly credible and successful businessmen and have them testify.

If I were Lance, and these two were on my list of character witnesses, Chewbacca starts to sound better by the minute.

In McQuaid's "bull****" comments, and HV's recent email spat with Floyd, I think the true "professionalism" of those two came to the fore. I think a seasoned prosecutor would have a field day with both of them.

 

[python]

i think texas lawyers are playing two games at the same time
(i) public image game (already easily visible) and
(ii) the one coming to the court room (currently invisible but being explored).

the main public image tools is ‘this is a witch hunt’. no phrase has been repeated more consistently and more frequently. it started in france even before the tour ended. easy to see a pre-script. it’s intended to create two effects in the eyes of joe the public.

one - a good guy and a cancer survivor is being victimized
two - an overzealous federal prosecutor went on a personal crusade.

the game that will play out in a court room will depend on the specific charges.

i continue to believe whatever the charge that the main tactic will be to delay, drag out extend by any means possible. no legal or procedural loophole will be left untouched.

judging by the current pr defence they are preparing a judicial attack on novitky to smear him (and thus delay the case) by attempting to initiate an fbi investigation into ‘unlawful discovery practices’. I recall it worked for bonds and the federal rules are easy to exploit.

the bad news for texas lawyers may be that the feds this time may explode yet unknown bomb based on ‘never tested positive’ residue of their client piss. i seriously think so because according to catlin, novitzky is a quick learner and works very closely both with him (on matters of testing science) and usada/wada (on other matters).

sure official 'positive' (in wada sense) can not be produced from the dozens and dozens of b-samples still in storage. but a hell of a lot of useful and corroborating evidence can be extracted from that frozen piss (and frozen plasma) and/or past records of test results- from hematologic trends to steroid profiles to brand new tests that did not exist at the time of a sample extraction.

 

[Parrot23]

Double post, but here goes:

LOL, Lance's lawyer is now claiming the investigation is "un-American".

Well, Lance should "un-American" himself and move offshore....or run for governor....