Leaving the Grand Tours early

[clausdollerup]

Hi All,

Following the reports that it was planned that Cav was going to leave the Giro after stage 12, i was thinking about the whole "leaving the tour on a certain stage" idea and philosophy!

Part of me is for it, and part of me is against it. I think it is best for some teams that don't have anyone for the GC that they can bring their sprinters and win a few stages and then stay anonymous. But part of me think it is silly as they then take a lot of points from people actually planning to finish the tours and not "chicken" out early on before it gets hard....i must admit personally i don't have much respect for the guys who plan their departure from a race in advance and i don't see how the organisers can accept this.....if it was me, then i rather make sure i give that spot to someone who will fight to make it to the end then have someone who have no intentions of finishing the tours in the peleton.

What do people think?

 

[roundabout]

Well, there are really no stages left for sprinters after today as I doubt even Ventoso could make it with the best on stages 17 and 18.

Given the nature of the course I would also think that the organization should feel happy to be able to attract the sort of sprinting field it did. They probably knew as soon as the route was presented that there will likely be riders pulling out after stage 12.

They could have shuffled a few things around and gave sprinters a stage in Milan if they wanted to.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

The idea of planning a Grand Tour without any opportunity for sprinters (and without the chance of winning the points jersey) in the last ten days of the race is just stupid. And that's the result of it: half the peloton dropping out during the race. Zomegnan doesn't care as long as he finds some more 34% averaging mule trails.

 

[theswordsman]

The Giro might have prevented it by putting a sprint stage or two the last week. At the Tour, sprinters have incentive to make it to Paris and try for a win on the Champs-Elysees. Still, I don't know how many sprinters and their helpers would beat the time cuts on the next three brutal stages coming up.

Personally, I'm glad to see them go for this race. The philosophy bothers me more for the Vuelta, when you have guys who could finish show up for 12 or 14 days of hard training before the Worlds, then drop out. I don't think that's fair to the race, or to the guys on their teams who could have rode in that spot. It would also give them a chance to go all out for a single stage win, knowing they don't have to race again the next day like their opponents.

 

[euanli]

You mean like Hushovd? Don't remember people complaining about Hushovd leaving the Veulta to prepare for the Worlds.

 

[JPM London]

I've had the same problem earlier - I was disappointed when I heard riders would leave, but don't have a problem with it anymore.

1) If riders that stay want to win the points jersey, they can get it deservedly by actually taking the points they need. If something withdraws, they're not in the competition anyway.

2) There's nothing more for someone like Cav to do in the Giro - like the route or not - but his role is done. He could continue as a domestique for a GC rider but it probably makes more sense to start focusing on the Tour. It's not going to deprive the viewers or the Giro of anything, because - as noted - his role is done.

3) If he (or anyone else who withdraws) hadn't entered in the first place the race would have missed him for the first bit - who's interested in seeing Petacchi win the flats without any (real) competition?



Nope, completely fine by me - but a good dilemma!

 

[clausdollerup]

I kind of agree with all the comments about there not be much to race for for the sprinters, but what about good old fashion PRIDE in being though enough to finish the race!

Like i said, you might have some sprinters that are just below Cav et al's level, but can make it to the finish and they would be in for a shout for the sprinters jersey!

And i'm also not really sure how much a tour benefits for someone like Cav who will ride 12 stages and then leave, but win two stages, in advertising etc. I think i read the other day that they now have changed the points in the tour to fit Cav.....what the F*CK!!!....Does that mean they have to change the climbers jersey to fit Contador as the nest climber!......but then again this a completely different question!

 

[jobiwan]

I kind of agree with all the comments about there not be much to race for for the sprinters, but what about good old fashion PRIDE in being though enough to finish the race!

Like i said, you might have some sprinters that are just below Cav et al's level, but can make it to the finish and they would be in for a shout for the sprinters jersey!

And i'm also not really sure how much a tour benefits for someone like Cav who will ride 12 stages and then leave, but win two stages, in advertising etc. I think i read the other day that they now have changed the points in the tour to fit Cav.....what the F*CK!!!....Does that mean they have to change the climbers jersey to fit Contador as the nest climber!......but then again this a completely different question!

It would take a lot more than pride for any sprinter to get over these mountains.
If you want to see Cav or any sprinters in the last week, the course has to make it possible for that. The Tour does, the Giro doesn't in this case.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I kind of agree with all the comments about there not be much to race for for the sprinters, but what about good old fashion PRIDE in being though enough to finish the race!

Like i said, you might have some sprinters that are just below Cav et al's level, but can make it to the finish and they would be in for a shout for the sprinters jersey!

Under most circumstances I'd tend to agree, but this Giro is a bit of a special case. There really isn't anything for sprinters to do after today. Even the points jersey is overwhelmingly likely to go to a climber. Finishing the race will require an extraordinary effort to no purpose - and would have a negative effect on the next part of the season for anyone who isn't good on the climbs.

 

[icefire]

This Giro has had too many flat stage sprints so far. Sprinters unable to go over a categorised climb should go with their trains back to the track where they belong.

 

[hfer07]

I think is a bit frustrating to see the departure of riders due to the "lack of shape" to confront more challenging terrain unsuitable to their abilities-Specially sprinters. I think is a bit of a spoiled attitude towards the sport, which personally leaves me with a bittersweet taste. -It's like saying that GT riders exit a tour early because the last 4 stages are ridden on Cobbles.....

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't have a problem with it anymore. It already has been explained by others.

Besides why would they want to risk anything going across the Crostis?

 

[Fus087]

This Giro has had too many flat stage sprints so far. Sprinters unable to go over a categorised climb should go with their trains back to the track where they belong.

I beg your pardon?
There have been three stages won in a mass sprint, and it's very unlikely that number will get any bigger. So, 1 out of 7 for the sprinters: That's actually one of the lowest numbers I can remember from any GT.
A GT isn't just for the climbers, time trialists or GC guys. It's also for sprinters, puncheurs, opportunists, classics guys - in short, it should fit every type of rider.

 

[brianf7]

There is no problems with leaving a 3 week tour early even if the team want you to stay all you have to do is have a flat and miss the time cut.

The only issue I have is they can leave the Giro today and start another race tomorrow. that shouldnt happen. If you sign up for 3 weeks then you either finish or you sit it out .


OOPS giving Pat ideas.

 

[MADRAZO]

Of course the sprinters leave now, anything else would be very very stupid. Cycling is about getting visible results not about "pride" finishing grandtours in last spots and getting totally exhausted before the next goals.

With the tour de france and the sprinterfriendly worlds ahead it would be completely stupid, and the few sprinters continuing like Appollonio obviously only does that since he is not in contention for the Tour De France.

Anyways I definetly agree that it is stupid not leaving 1 sprintstage until short before the end of the race, so that the climbers able and willing to get through the mountains (like Ventoso) could be rewarded for that in the end.

 

[GoAndyGo]

Mark Cavendish is a one trick pony. He can't climb to help his team out like Pettachi will try to do with Scarponi. HTC had to drop back 2-3 guys to help get him over Etna. Not to mention a car. There are no sprint stages left and 95% chance he wouldn't have made it up Kasereck and onto Grossglockner in time. If by some small chance in heck he actually did, Crostis (which Contador, who is one of the best climbers in the world, called the scariest climb he has ever faced) would have done him in. No chance he would have ever made it past Friday or Saturday. He is a sprinter and thats what he is there to do. He won 2 stages for the team and was there at the end when they won the TTT. I don't mind so much in the Giro because the Giro has never been a sprinter friendly grand tour (usually 4-6 flat stages compared to 8-10 at TDF). If he dropped out of a race like the Tour de France which always has Champes-Elysees at the end then I would start to question his motives.

 

[will10]

You mean like Hushovd? Don't remember people complaining about Hushovd leaving the Veulta to prepare for the Worlds.

he is far from the only one

 

[Marva32]

I've given up caring about whether riders finish a race or not. If they choose to disrespect the race and the fans, they aren't worth the effort of caring about them.

 

[Ferminal]

I have zero problem with the outcome.

RCS get a world class sprinting field, and throw in some easy sprint stages and some 50/50 ones (as it turned out we only had 3 easy bunch sprints and 1 selective bunch sprint). Now the sprinting is over and the real race is beginning, there is not much point for them remaining in the race, especially when most are looking at July. RCS want the big sprints without having them be the dominating feature of the race.

I don't think they should be bothered by sprinters riding to complete the race when there's nothing left for them. It's what they accept when they back-end a course like this. People leaving is an endorsement of how difficult it is going to get. It's a mutually accepted outcome, let's move on and let the racing begin.

 

[craig1985]

Robbie McEwen did this for years when he was at his peak. It makes no difference if they drop out now, if Cav and co don't get eliminated on Stage 13, it's almost certain that they won't make the time cut for Stages 14 or 15. I personally think AZ went overboard in the final week, a nice flat stage would have been nice, a chance for everybody to rest up for Stages 19 and 20 which are rather brutal.

 

[YoRUsh]

They were asking for this to happen with this course, so you cant really blame anyone stepping out. However I do feel this is a bit of a shame, a real pro should want to finish a grand tour, just for the sake of it. Like Voigt in last years tdf, doing whatever it takes to get to Paris. They should have made one last sprint stage near Milan to award the sprinters willing to suffer to get there. But as I said, with the stages coming up you cant blame the riders.

 

[Pharazon]

i don't honestly know how the giro organisers expected anything different given the route this year.. quite frankly, is there any point in anyone but the Domestiques and Climbers staying in... even one of the ITT's is a mountain one..

funny how when Cipo was around you barely saw a mountain in the giro and now you've got nothing but them

 

[Dalakhani]

As others have said, what have the organisers offered as an inducement for the sprinters to stay? (In terms of potential stage wins.)

If they'd moved a couple of the harder stages to the first half and a couple of sprints to the last 5 days, it might have been different.

But does it really matter?

It would have been a laugh each day to see who could have stayed within the cut-off, but whether that's what the sport should be about is another question.

Some would say, "yes, they've got to be able to get over the hills if they're real bike riders", and others would say it's better to have the sprints with all the top guys still in the race.

Me, being a sick son-of-a-something, would have made them toil. But I understand why the organisers wanted Cav-Ali.

Steve

 

[Finbouy]

I'm against the philosophy of pulling out during a Race unless it's down to some medical issue.

But this Giro was never built around Sprinters so I'm happy to let him go. He'll add nothing to the Race anymore and probably be out of time in S13. But pride wise that would be a better way to go surely, than just pulling out. But then Cav (sorry to pick on him) isn't that bothered about pulling out, so ta ta, go prepare for the Tour.

Simply designing a course around the mountains to kill the Goats off is ill conceived and doesn't really reflect the population of the teams, which is a sad reflection on the choice made for the course.

Not everyones a Climber.

 

[Boardslide]

I have zero problem with the outcome.

RCS get a world class sprinting field, and throw in some easy sprint stages and some 50/50 ones (as it turned out we only had 3 easy bunch sprints and 1 selective bunch sprint). Now the sprinting is over and the real race is beginning, there is not much point for them remaining in the race, especially when most are looking at July. RCS want the big sprints without having them be the dominating feature of the race.

I don't think they should be bothered by sprinters riding to complete the race when there's nothing left for them. It's what they accept when they back-end a course like this. People leaving is an endorsement of how difficult it is going to get. It's a mutually accepted outcome, let's move on and let the racing begin.

"RCS was fully aware of when the sprinters would be leaving as shown here at the Giro's London launch in March:

The powerful Team HTC-Highroad rider has never been short of confidence since he burst on to the scene in 2008 and has also never been one to suppress what he feels, which does not bother Zomegnan.

"What he thinks he says. It's not a problem," Zomegnan commented.

Cavendish is also highly driven by success, as he showed at last year's Tour of Spain when he lasted the duration of the race to ensure he won the green jersey for the leading points scorer.

Zomegnan advised the Briton not to tire himself out at this year's Giro d'Italia.

"I think his best goal is to arrive at the mountains with three or four wins. He can't transform his body like (Bradley) Wiggins," he said of Cavendish's Olympic team mate who came fourth in the 2009 Tour de France."


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