legalising drugs , why not?

[ray j willings]

Thought I start a thread on a issue that IMO see's governments and police etc banging their heads against a wall or in some cases taking a nice piece of the pie.
Soft drugs have now been made legal in some parts of The States.

IMO its a war that can never be won. Its a waste of resources and vast amounts of money. Its also very complex and I don't think Governments who are profiting will want it "drugs" legalised.

People would have safe places to get their drugs, They would get drugs they know would be safe.
No more dealers on the streets. No more drug gang wars although they might find something else to fight over.

Taxes could pay for the rehab for the serious addicts and pay for their drugs so no one would need to get mugged or burgled for a fix.

Police would have more time to pursue other crimes and be able to deal with other issues more strongly in their communities.

Their would not be a need for the Legal high craze. That will just go underground as do all vices when made illegal...Look at the effects of prohibition.

interesting link you may want to check out http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening

 

[jmdirt]

Marijuana is illegal in the US because it was taking business from companies like Philip Morris, RJ Reynolds, DuPont. Now it remains illegal because it would cut into the massive pharma industry.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I mostly agree with Ray. Since the police pullback after the riots here, parts of Baltimore have been like the OK corral with all the gun violence, most of it centering on drugs. I think bringing these black markets into the economy will also be ultimately beneficial. Very few places in the US have actually legalized marijuana. Colorado and Washington state will be interesting experiments. So far, based on early signs, I think the trend will ultimately be towards greater access. But it will take time.

 

[Christian]

I am all for it. In Colorado, the sale of marijuana is taxed, and the tax money goes into public schools. I think that's a great idea. From what I've heard from some friends, Colorado did it right, and Washington did it wrong. One person I know from Seattle told me she still uses her medical marijuana license, even though she could also buy it at the store (she doesn't have a medical condition). It also creates a lot of jobs, frees up police time and ressources and keeps people out of jail.

In Europe unfortunately I don't see it happening anytime soon. Of course Netherlands has coffee shops, but from what I understand it is a legal grey area, where they are merely "tolerated", which puts them at risk of being shut down at any point. I think they also made access more restrictive to foreigners in recent years. That is the main problem in Europe: the countries are so small that every country would have to legalize it. I think that will happen at some point, just not in the near future. I'm also not sure if the EU has any interest in this.

 

[ray j willings]

Interesting fact “According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), Afghan farmers grew an unprecedented 209,000 hectares of opium poppy in 2013, surpassing the previous peak of 193,000 hectares in 2007,” the report said

So much for the war on drugs. check this out

http://mediaroots.org/opium-what-afghanistan-is-really-about/

 

[Pazuzu]

Thought I start a thread on a issue that IMO see's governments and police etc banging their heads against a wall or in some cases taking a nice piece of the pie.
Soft drugs have now been made legal in some parts of The States.

IMO its a war that can never be won. Its a waste of resources and vast amounts of money. Its also very complex and I don't think Governments who are profiting will want it "drugs" legalised.

People would have safe places to get their drugs, They would get drugs they know would be safe.
No more dealers on the streets. No more drug gang wars although they might find something else to fight over.

Taxes could pay for the rehab for the serious addicts and pay for their drugs so no one would need to get mugged or burgled for a fix.

Police would have more time to pursue other crimes and be able to deal with other issues more strongly in their communities.

Their would not be a need for the Legal high craze. That will just go underground as do all vices when made illegal...Look at the effects of prohibition.

interesting link you may want to check out http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening

have you read Chasing the Scream? by Johann Hari. He provides a detailed history of the near 100 year war on drugs highlighting just how ineffective, expensive and inhumane the policy has been. In place of the war on drugs Hari, proposes legalization, but with with preventive education and treatment funded by taxes collected on drug sales. Here's the link: http://chasingthescream.com/

While I supports legalization of recreational drugs. PEDs pose a problem for competitive events. Obviously their use is a form of fraud when they're prohibited by the rules. Perhaps the solution is to have two categories of races. Those that are drug tested and those that aren't with the participants choosing which one to compete in, and spectators which one to watch.

 

[The Hitch]

Thought I start a thread on a issue that IMO see's governments and police etc banging their heads against a wall or in some cases taking a nice piece of the pie.
Soft drugs have now been made legal in some parts of The States.

IMO its a war that can never be won. Its a waste of resources and vast amounts of money. Its also very complex and I don't think Governments who are profiting will want it "drugs" legalised.

People would have safe places to get their drugs, They would get drugs they know would be safe.
No more dealers on the streets. No more drug gang wars although they might find something else to fight over.

Taxes could pay for the rehab for the serious addicts and pay for their drugs so no one would need to get mugged or burgled for a fix.

Police would have more time to pursue other crimes and be able to deal with other issues more strongly in their communities.

Their would not be a need for the Legal high craze. That will just go underground as do all vices when made illegal...Look at the effects of prohibition.

interesting link you may want to check out http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening

have you read Chasing the Scream? by Johann Hari. He provides a detailed history of the near 100 year war on drugs highlighting just how ineffective, expensive and inhumane the policy has been. In place of the war on drugs Hari, proposes legalization, but with with preventive education and treatment funded by taxes collected on drug sales. Here's the link: http://chasingthescream.com/

While I supports legalization of recreational drugs. PEDs pose a problem for competitive events. Obviously their use is a form of fraud when they're prohibited by the rules. Perhaps the solution is to have two categories of races. Those that are drug tested and those that aren't with the participants choosing which one to compete in, and spectators which one to watch.

The spectators don't really "choose" what to watch do they? Is it a coincidence that more people watch Rugby in NZ, cricket in India and NFL in the US?

People watch what they are told is important. The media would decide which event is more important the "clean" or the "(openly) doped" event.

Everything I have seen from the behaviour of the media tells me that they would choose the "clean" event and ridicule the "(openly) doped" one, thereby ensuring that all the "doped" athletes go to the "clean" one, and we end up back where we are today.

 

[Pazuzu]

Interesting fact “According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), Afghan farmers grew an unprecedented 209,000 hectares of opium poppy in 2013, surpassing the previous peak of 193,000 hectares in 2007,” the report said.

They need to find a better approach in Afghanistan. Why don't they allow the farmers to grow it legally for medical applications as they do in New Zealand? Or why not turn poppies into fuel? http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/03/putting-poppies-in-the-gas-tank/308379/

 

[Pazuzu]

...People watch what they are told is important. The media would decide which event is more important the "clean" or the "(openly) doped" event.

Everything I have seen from the behaviour of the media tells me that they would choose the "clean" event and ridicule the "(openly) doped" one, thereby ensuring that all the "doped" athletes go to the "clean" one, and we end up back where we are today.

Unfortunately, you're probably right. For some reason most people prefer the *illusion* of fair competition to the real thing.

 

[Echoes]

Excellent. The epitome of what I've always thought about the Left. No more social struggle, no more defence of the working class, they become liberal and advocates of consumption society. Or isn't it what they always have been?

Drug taxpayers pay for building school? My a*se, taxpayers pay for the state's creditors (+ the federate entities'). If we stopped paying our debt, we'd have enough money to raise schools and to create more police posts that would easily catch the biggest criminals AND drug dealers. It's very easy to do. Only thing that is needed is incorruptibility. Besides, the cops at presents are more busy creating terrorist threats than chasing criminals (see the work of FBI informants).

This is just left-wing demagoguery at its best. I don't think it's just defeatism. There must be some sort of accompliceship within this discourse.

 

[Christian]

Excellent. The epitome of what I've always thought about the Left. No more social struggle, no more defence of the working class, they become liberal and advocates of consumption society. Or isn't it what they always have been?

Drug taxpayers pay for building school? My a*se, taxpayers pay for the state's creditors (+ the federate entities'). If we stopped paying our debt, we'd have enough money to raise schools and to create more police posts that would easily catch the biggest criminals AND drug dealers. It's very easy to do. Only thing that is needed is incorruptibility. Besides, the cops at presents are more busy creating terrorist threats than chasing criminals (see the work of FBI informants).

This is just left-wing demagoguery at its best. I don't think it's just defeatism. There must be some sort of accompliceship within this discourse.

You like to denounce left-wing demagoguery, don't you

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Drugs blur the mind and make it harder to serve God so they are wrong. We need to keep our minds clean to do what He wants.

 

[frenchfry]

Re:

Drugs blur the mind and make it harder to serve God so they are wrong. We need to keep our minds clean to do what He wants.

It's bad enough seeing this kind of drivel in the religion thread.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Drugs blur the mind and make it harder to serve God so they are wrong. We need to keep our minds clean to do what He wants.

Best troll of the month!

I'll bite: I assume that you are against ALL drugs therefore you take nothing that does not come naturally from the earth.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

If the stuff becomes cheaper, its a go.....

 

[SeriousSam]

Excellent. The epitome of what I've always thought about the Left. No more social struggle, no more defence of the working class, they become liberal and advocates of consumption society. Or isn't it what they always have been?

Drug taxpayers pay for building school? My a*se, taxpayers pay for the state's creditors (+ the federate entities'). If we stopped paying our debt, we'd have enough money to raise schools and to create more police posts that would easily catch the biggest criminals AND drug dealers. It's very easy to do. Only thing that is needed is incorruptibility. Besides, the cops at presents are more busy creating terrorist threats than chasing criminals (see the work of FBI informants).

This is just left-wing demagoguery at its best. I don't think it's just defeatism. There must be some sort of accompliceship within this discourse.

The argument for legalising drugs is recognition of individual autonomy, that paternalism is usually misguided wrt adults, as well as severe inconsistencies within existing drug laws. It's hard to figure out what supposedly makes the banned drugs worthy of bans and the allowed ones not.

The case against is usually some empirical consequentialist argument, like, allow drugs and we will have anarchy. Or that net healthcare costs are going to increase, and you don't want to pay for drug use related healthcare costs (despite it not being clear net costs would rise, and despite many being perfectly content to pay for other lifestyle choice related additional health bills, including but not limited to smoking and drinking)

Perhaps I'm not aware of some unintended consequences, but I think the case for at least limited liberalisation is solid.

 

[ebandit]

heroin..................lsd.................coke.......mdma...meths.....mandrax.....the issue is not if it's right or wrong but

why punters can not obtain good quality at a fair price...............

Mark L

 

[ebandit]

belief

Drugs blur the mind and make it harder to serve God so they are wrong. We need to keep our minds clean to do what He wants.

believe me.........with enough smack i would believe in god too.................

Mark L

 

[Christian]

Any irish folks here? Seems many drugs were accidentally legalized for a day in Ireland:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0CUZnvYr4Y

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re: Re:

Drugs blur the mind and make it harder to serve God so they are wrong. We need to keep our minds clean to do what He wants.

Best troll of the month!

I'll bite: I assume that you are against ALL drugs therefore you take nothing that does not come naturally from the earth.

This thread is about legalizing illegal drugs, to assume I was talking about something else is about as stupid as calling me a troll.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Drugs blur the mind and make it harder to serve God so they are wrong. We need to keep our minds clean to do what He wants.

Best troll of the month!

I'll bite: I assume that you are against ALL drugs therefore you take nothing that does not come naturally from the earth.

This thread is about legalizing illegal drugs, to assume I was talking about something else is about as stupid as calling me a troll.

Yes, the thread is about legalizing drugs, but your reason for not legalizing them is so that you won't blur your mind, therefore you can't consume anything that blurs your mind if you want to serve your god. The argument could be made that god created things like marijuana. Really your post wan't a troll? Come on!

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re: Re:

Drugs blur the mind and make it harder to serve God so they are wrong. We need to keep our minds clean to do what He wants.

Best troll of the month!

I'll bite: I assume that you are against ALL drugs therefore you take nothing that does not come naturally from the earth.

This thread is about legalizing illegal drugs, to assume I was talking about something else is about as stupid as calling me a troll.

Yes, the thread is about legalizing drugs, but your reason for not legalizing them is so that you won't blur your mind, therefore you can't consume anything that blurs your mind if you want to serve your god. The argument could be made that god created things like marijuana. Really your post wan't a troll? Come on!

People take drugs, including overuse of alcohol, to change their state of mind, remove inhibition and the like. People who take these drugs do things they would not do if they were sober. Drugs are taken to indulge lusts, to make sinning easier.

I am not against taking other drugs such as painkillers, in fact I have a sore foot at the moment and I am taking mild painkillers. I also take blood pressure medication.
It is true that some strong painkillers do effect mental capacity but the motive for taking them is completely different and I am not against them being used for that purpose.
Legal drugs can also be addictive, but that is also different again.

I do not troll in my posts, I am just explaining my religious beliefs.

 

[ray j willings]

Just out of curiosity , Green monkey , have you ever been high?
Most people " myself included " I know have mostly had a positive experience.
If some one takes something and thinks he can Fly and jumps from a ten story building then he/she's a idiot. Take off from the ground.
I mean look how many politicians have been busted or admitted taking drugs. Even the pope. I have seen the t shirt
I'm not advocating that drug taking should be compulsory but .....there's some good stuff out there

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Drugs blur the mind and make it harder to serve God so they are wrong. We need to keep our minds clean to do what He wants.

Best troll of the month!

I'll bite: I assume that you are against ALL drugs therefore you take nothing that does not come naturally from the earth.

This thread is about legalizing illegal drugs, to assume I was talking about something else is about as stupid as calling me a troll.

Yes, the thread is about legalizing drugs, but your reason for not legalizing them is so that you won't blur your mind, therefore you can't consume anything that blurs your mind if you want to serve your god. The argument could be made that god created things like marijuana. Really your post wan't a troll? Come on!

People take drugs, including overuse of alcohol, to change their state of mind, remove inhibition and the like. People who take these drugs do things they would not do if they were sober. Drugs are taken to indulge lusts, to make sinning easier.

I am not against taking other drugs such as painkillers, in fact I have a sore foot at the moment and I am taking mild painkillers. I also take blood pressure medication.
It is true that some strong painkillers do effect mental capacity but the motive for taking them is completely different and I am not against them being used for that purpose.
Legal drugs can also be addictive, but that is also different again.

I do not troll in my posts, I am just explaining my religious beliefs.

My 70 year old mother was on a legal, prescribed, rotating load of meds for ~20 years to help her 'live more comfortably'. Some of them were messing with her endocrine system so they added more meds to counter the other meds., but that required other meds, etc... She was so messed up that she could barely function (semi-bed ridden) let a lone have a clear mind. A family member who has smoked/vaporized marijuana daily since the mid 80s tried for years to get my mom to try that instead of her chemical cocktail. My mother was way too conservative to even consider it. Finally, they convinced her to read some things and speak to a holistic doc. My mom was still worried about the legality/morality of using it. She decided that food made with oil was OK to try since she felt her quality of life was so poor. Fast forward...she was so amazed at how well the edibles worked for her that she did more research and spoke with experts to find the best oils for her use. She now only takes two meds, daily (down from a dozen+/-), uses edibles as needed, and is functional again. She is thrilled to have her life back, and we are thrilled to have our mom back. Its not about sinning for her, its about living.

Legalized marijuana will happen in my state just before the next ice age, but even if it happens in my lifetime I don't know that I will become a user (yes, I sinned with it as a teen). Faced with a situation like my mom's though, I will certainly explore that option.

I apologize for assuming that your post was a troll!

EDIT: my typing gets worse by the day!

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

jmdirt, medical marijuana is a different case than just using it for pleasure and if it works as a medical treatment then it seems reasonable to use it.


Ray, no I have never been high or even drunk.