Teams & Riders Lotto Cycling Team

[Samamba]

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I'm a bit involved in the race, and they confirmed participation yesterday. One or two more good teams are likely to be added over the coming days, now that Austria was cancelled

How are they going to add more teams when there's like 26 teams already at the start

 

[search]

How are they going to add more teams when there's like 26 teams already at the start

well, 29 are allowed .

And there are always some changes in these kind of races. Teams confirm, then never reply again, or notice that flights are more expensive than they thought, stuff like that

 

[Samamba]

well, 29 are allowed .

And there are always some changes in these kind of races. Teams confirm, then never reply again, or notice that flights are more expensive than they thought, stuff like that

Well the relegation battle and Austria being cancelled is definitely a blessing for the Sibiu Tour then. I'd expect some of the teams in danger to desperately ask for an invite now.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Interview with De Gendt today:
"The media talks about how Valérie leaving means it's storming within the management, that's not how we feel it, don't look for problems where there are none"

So, it might just be that she's leaving because she got a better offer somewhere else or because of personal problems.

 

[search]

Well the relegation battle and Austria being cancelled is definitely a blessing for the Sibiu Tour then. I'd expect some of the teams in danger to desperately ask for an invite now.

yeah, indeed, normally it would be unthinkable at this point, as race budgets are limited as well of course, and only allow to cover the costs for a certain number of teams.

Still a shame that Austria doesn't take place, but there were some indications right from the start, so it can't be much of a surprise for anyone.

 

[Samamba]

Interview with De Gendt today:
"The media talks about how Valérie leaving means it's storming within the management, that's not how we feel it, don't look for problems where there are none"

So, it might just be that she's leaving because she got a better offer somewhere else or because of personal problems.

It's indeed because of some private reasons, nothing to do with an internal dispute. Just the media sensationalizing something again. She was an important person within the team tho. Basically the last one of the "OGs" to leave the - what could be - sinking ship. Going to be hard to replace her.
Wellens leaving is also quite logical. LTS probably doesn't want to give him a 7 figure contract anymore and it's now or never for Wellens to try something else.

The only big problem is obviously the ability for WT riders to leave when their teams WT license expires. It isn't a specific clause that the LTS riders have, this is for every single WT rider apparentely. Which is a bit problematic imo. Kinda a death sentence for every team that relegates every 3 years.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I still think Lotto's best bet is keeping Israel behind and hoping Astana folds before LTS themselves fold, because right now it's an actual possibility that that team simply doesn't exist anymore after this year. Or they simply lose all their riders with non-WT clauses and every rider who's now out of contract not wanting to extend. Like why would a guy as Van Gils choose LTS over Alpecin for example.

What if Alpecin buys the UCI license of Astana... then basically nothing changes for Lotto. (BEX getting a lot of points in Estonia is a perfect example of what i was talking about earlier).

Van Gils is end of contract, i think? Who else? Van Moer? If they don't secure their WT license those guys will take the best offer, Lotto or other.

 

[Ricco']

I think Van Moer has contract until 2023. The news from 2021 say that he extended back then for another 2 years.

Maybe not fully updated but PCS has the following riders with contract for 2023: Beullens, Campenaerts, De Buyst, De Lie, Drizners, Ewan, Frison, Schwarzmann, Selig, Van Eetvelt, Van Moer and Vermeersch.

 

[Samamba]

What if Alpecin buys the UCI license of Astana... then basically nothing changes for Lotto. (BEX getting a lot of points in Estonia is a perfect example of what i was talking about earlier).

Van Gils is end of contract, i think? Who else? Van Moer? If they don't secure their WT license those guys will take the best offer, Lotto or other.

Van Gils, Moniquet, Cras, Vanhoucke, Wellens, Kron, ... all without a contract
Ewan, Van Moer, Vermeersch, De Lie, De Buyst have one.

Lotto looks to be giving out big contracts to Teuns and Stuyven (both obviously declining) so I imagine they have some money to spend tho, but if the rumour that every WT rider can leave their team if its license expires is true, well basically everyone is out of contract. The end of the team basically. The end of every team that relegates.

I think Van Moer has contract until 2023. The news from 2021 say that he extended back then for another 2 years.

Maybe not fully updated but PCS has the following riders with contract for 2023: Beullens, Campenaerts, De Buyst, De Lie, Drizners, Ewan, Frison, Schwarzmann, Selig, Van Eetvelt, Van Moer and Vermeersch.

You can add Sweeny, that's it. But once again, doesn't even matter if the rumours about WT riders being able to break contract if a WT team relegates are true (this is horrible btw, for every team, you just have a lot of riders that simply do not care about their team relegating).

 

[Ricco']

Teuns and Stuyven (both obviously declining)

Teuns or Theuns?

 

[Samamba]

Teuns or Theuns?

Dylan Teuns (interested, but want to stay WT, and Lotto can't guarantee that right now).
Stuyven (rumoured to have been offered an insane contract, but basically same, very interested, but scared about the non-WT think, also like Trek too much).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Van Gils, Moniquet, Cras, Vanhoucke, Wellens, Kron, ... all without a contract
Ewan, Van Moer, Vermeersch, De Lie, De Buyst have one.

Lotto looks to be giving out big contracts to Teuns and Stuyven (both obviously declining) so I imagine they have some money to spend tho, but if the rumour that every WT rider can leave their team if its license expires is true, well basically everyone is out of contract. The end of the team basically. The end of every team that relegates.

You can add Sweeny, that's it. But once again, doesn't even matter if the rumours about WT riders being able to break contract if a WT team relegates are true (this is horrible btw, for every team, you just have a lot of riders that simply do not care about their team relegating).

Did you hear those rumours or are you going by my earlier assumption that riders might have contracts with clauses? It was just a logical assumption on my part, because this is how it is done in plenty other sports and i can't imagine someone like Ewan not having such a clause in his contract. But on my part, that wasn't a rumour, just an assumption.

 

[Samamba]

Did you hear those rumours or are you going by my earlier assumption that riders might have contracts with clauses? It was just a logical assumption on my part, because this is how it is done in plenty other sports and i can't imagine someone like Ewan not having such a clause in his contract. But on my part, that wasn't a rumour, just an assumption.

No HLN reported earlier today that some guys have a specific clause in their contract so that they can leave. This is apparently not true (rumours, not confirmed), every WT contract (for every rider in every team, not just LTS) has the same clause in it that talks about withdrawal or expiration of a WT license. Relegation would technically be an expiration of a license, so riders can get out of their contract if true.

It is dangerous thing imo. I have no problem with riders having specific clauses in their contract if they want and have negotiated them. But every WT contract having that clause is just a death sentence to every team that relegates in the future. It also means that riders do not have a real reason to try to save the team as they won't go down with them anyways if they don't want to.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

No HLN reported earlier today that some guys have a specific clause in their contract so that they can leave. This is apparently not true (rumours, not confirmed), every WT contract (for every rider in every team, not just LTS) has the same clause in it that talks about withdrawal or expiration of a WT license. Relegation would technically be an expiration of a license, so riders can get out of their contract if true.

It is dangerous thing imo. I have no problem with riders having specific clauses in their contract if they want and have negotiated them. But every WT contract having that clause is just a death sentence to every team that relegates in the future. It also means that riders do not have a real reason to try to save the team as they won't go down with them anyways if they don't want to.

Ok. So my fear was founded and the situation is even worse than i imagined. That means they have to go 100% for that WT status or they basically lose every somewhat decent rider. Alpecin and/or Quickstep will be looking for a new high profile sprinter with Cavendish and Merlier leaving, so i can't imagine Ewan staying at Lotto. De Lie will have teams standing in line (i can easily see 5 teams or more wanting to sign him). Who might stay if they get a new contract after relegation? De Gendt? Campenaerts? Maybe. Wellens? He might get other offers, but he hasn't been setting the world ablaze either. Cras perhaps. I think even Van Gils and Moniquet might get better offers than Lotto after turning PCT. Let alone signing new big name riders, they will all pass.

 

[pastronef]

situation doesnt look good for now. Valerie might be leaving for personal reasons. Iìd be curious if the arrival of Yana Seel from Astana could have maybe made her exit faster?

 

[search]

every WT contract (for every rider in every team, not just LTS) has the same clause in it that talks about withdrawal or expiration of a WT license. Relegation would technically be an expiration of a license, so riders can get out of their contract if true.

the World Tour "model contract" is in the UCI Road racing rules (on from page 226):

https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/7MLz0Fo06hpqNvEvrlXaf2/b5ffbf462d47f4d559d90d2089d128ae/2-ROA-20220401-E.pdf

It indeed includes the part "The engagement shall be subject to the registration of the team as a UCI WorldTeam with the UCI. Should such registration not be obtained, the Rider may terminate the present contract without notice or compensation."

 

[Samamba]

situation doesnt look good for now. Valerie might be leaving for personal reasons. Iìd be curious if the arrival of Yana Seel from Astana could have maybe made her exit faster?

Yana Seels job is has to do with marketing and finding sponsors, Valeries was more administration and organizational work (basically the person who does everything: plan stuff, buy tickets, in direct contact with every rider for small stuf, etc.). Don't think both jobs have anything to do with eachother.

the World Tour "model contract" is in the UCI Road racing rules (on from page 226):

https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/7MLz0Fo06hpqNvEvrlXaf2/b5ffbf462d47f4d559d90d2089d128ae/2-ROA-20220401-E.pdf

It indeed includes the part "The engagement shall be subject to the registration of the team as a UCI WorldTeam with the UCI. Should such registration not be obtained, the Rider may terminate the present contract without notice or compensation."

That's just a really weird thing to have if you make a relagation/promotion system imo. Makes it impossible to survive for teams who are relegating.

 

[yaco]

I don't understand why you have a relegation system at all - Cycling is not the most reliable of sports with sponsors coming and going and teams coming or going - You have enough attrition within the sport to which sees a turnover in the WP peleton - Will add that coming what is in effect 19th or 20th is not a death knell for a team - My understanding is the 19th team will still receive invites to GT's and WT races, while the 20th team will receive similar benefits. It may also mean that you end the hegemony of Spanish/Italian and French PCT teams gaining places in GTs.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

What if Alpecin buys the UCI license of Astana... then basically nothing changes for Lotto.

Why would Alpecin buy the license of Astana? They are qualifying to WT by point system, they don’t need to buy a license to become a WT-team.

Doesnt buying a license also mean that you need to take a certain amount of riders and staff from the other team? So like UnoX that want to become WT team can’t buy the license of Astana without kind of merging with them, which UnoX would have no intentions of doing.

 

[Samamba]

Why would Alpecin buy the license of Astana? They are qualifying to WT by point system, they don’t need to buy a license to become a WT-team.

Doesnt buying a license also mean that you need to take a certain amount of riders and staff from the other team? So like UnoX that want to become WT team can’t buy the license of Astana without kind of merging with them, which UnoX would have no intentions of doing.

Didn't Wanty buy CCCs license? I don't there was a merger of some sort at all. CCC was folding anyways tho I don't know if that had anything to do with it.

 

[search]

they did buy the license, but had to honor the contracts afaik. Hirt, Koch and Zimmermann got on board that way at least.

 

[Lexman]

I think the riders are supermotivatedto show it's possible, even the new uys like RJVR are doing what they can and will contribute in obtaining the goal I think...

 

[Lexman]

https://sporza.be/nl/2022/05/17/van...ns-evenveel-positieve-signalen~1652780828000/

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

https://sporza.be/nl/2022/05/17/van...ns-evenveel-positieve-signalen~1652780828000/

So, Vandegoor doesn't think it would be such a bad thing if they got relegated. He compares them to Alpecin and the fact that all big races invite Alpecin as well. Because obviously, Lotto also has a rider like Van der Poel... or Pogacar... or Van Aert... or Evenepoel... or Alaphilippe... that every race organizer wants on the startlist. Well they have Wellens... who is leaving.

He is still speculating under the assumption that their (future) star riders won't be able to leave (Ewan, De Lie, Vermeersch...) in case they get relegated.

 

[yaco]

So, Vandegoor doesn't think it would be such a bad thing if they got relegated. He compares them to Alpecin and the fact that all big races invite Alpecin as well. Because obviously, Lotto also has a rider like Van der Poel... or Pogacar... or Van Aert... or Evenepoel... or Alaphilippe... that every race organizer wants on the startlist. Well they have Wellens... who is leaving.

He is still speculating under the assumption that their (future) star riders won't be able to leave (Ewan, De Lie, Vermeersch...) in case they get relegated.

Lotto will survive if they have to be a PCT Tour - They'll still be able to ride one or two GT's, have their choice of WT races and of course the Classics are a given.