Luis Leon Sanchez...

[papisimo98]

I've kinda been following his Vuelta. Very different rider.
It got me kind of wondering.
Is he exhibit A for a rider who went from a full program to paniagua?
Or is there more to his drop off in performance that maybe I'm not aware of such as injury etc..
I mean he went from fighting for Tour stages and top ten overall to well,.....zilch.
Who else would be a good candidate?
Cunego?

 

[Benotti69]

Luis Leon Sanchez
I've kinda been following his Vuelta. Very different rider.
It got me kind of wondering.
Is he exhibit A for a rider who went from a full program to paniagua?
Or is there more to his drop off in performance that maybe I'm not aware of such as injury etc..
I mean he went from fighting for Tour stages and top ten overall to well,.....zilch.
Who else would be a good candidate?
Cunego?

2010 was he best performance GTs year. After that he moved to Rabobank and different 'program' that didn't give him the same performance.

I cant imagine he(or the team) can afford the same 'program' as the likes of WT teams.

Still doping as is Cunego, just not to the same levels as previous. Maybe they value a longer 'untainted' (if possible) career rather than risk more wins but a higher chance of testing positive.

Look at Gilbert, 2011 he destroyed nearly all and has been a shadow since.

 

[DFA123]

There certainly seems a drop off since his brief suspension by Blanco. 2012 was possibly the best year of his career and there's been relatively little since then, although he's still posted a few decent results so might not be fully paniagua.

If his form picks up massively at Astana next season I think you'll have your answer.

Regarding other candidates, Andy Schleck stands out in the last couple of years, and Horner this season. Although I wouldn't bet that either of them are fully paniagua now.

 

[hrotha]

I think he's been taking it easy this year so as to not risk his presumably fat contract for 2015. In my mind, the way he sees it is, "I'm in a small team this year, it's a transitional season, I won't be doing the biggest races. No need to take risks now".

 

[the sceptic]

2010 was he best performance GTs year. After that he moved to Rabobank and different 'program' that didn't give him the same performance.

I cant imagine he(or the team) can afford the same 'program' as the likes of WT teams.

Still doping as is Cunego, just not to the same levels as previous. Maybe they value a longer 'untainted' (if possible) career rather than risk more wins but a higher chance of testing positive.

Look at Gilbert, 2011 he destroyed nearly all and has been a shadow since.

I doubt it has much to do with money. We have seen riders on small teams do crazy things many times before.

 

[Granville57]

Regarding other candidates, Andy Schleck stands out in the last couple of years, and Horner this season.

But Horner's crash seemed quite serious, and I don't feel he raced nearly enough for us to determine much. He still did very well considering what he went through. Had he been allowed to race in this Vuelta, I suspect we'd be having a very different conversation at this point.

 

[roundabout]

De Gendt obviously.

But wait, he used to be one of the forum favorites and we can't have that.

 

[Ferminal]

But breakaway.

 

[hrotha]

De Gendt obviously.

But wait, he used to be one of the forum favorites and we can't have that.

Pretty much every time De Gendt is mentioned these days it's to point out how ridiculous his career trajectory is.

 

[Energy Starr]

I doubt it has much to do with money. We have seen riders on small teams do crazy things many times before.

I'm inclined to think the expensive part of doping is the paying of someone to teach them to do it without getting caught. The dope itself anyone can afford.

 

[Benotti69]

I doubt it has much to do with money. We have seen riders on small teams do crazy things many times before.

Lots of those crazy things got caught........

Di Luca brought Acqua E Sapone to Vini Fantini to pay for his ride. No doubt that covered his 'program' costs......but still didn't cover intelligence

 

[Gavandope]

I'm inclined to think the expensive part of doping is the paying of someone to teach them to do it without getting caught. The dope itself anyone can afford.

I don't think it's that expensive, the medical grade mini fridge that's required to keep the mini bb's kept at a rock solid constant temperature maybe. The rest barring the drugs and DEHP free bags seems all pretty much technical and mathematical; knowing the half lives of your particular type of EPO, dosage proportions to the ratio of re-infused blood and what dosages do after calibrating your levels with fixed rides up climbs as a yardstick combined with the likely time a tester will knock on the door.

 

[Big Doopie]

and off to astana he goes.

lol

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Good thing Astana got rid of the Iglinskiy doper, frees up a slot for LLS.

 

[papisimo98]

I think he's been taking it easy this year so as to not risk his presumably fat contract for 2015. In my mind, the way he sees it is, "I'm in a small team this year, it's a transitional season, I won't be doing the biggest races. No need to take risks now".

The etc... I posted was referring as this for something non-fitness related. He just seems so far back.
It really makes how messed up things are sink in a little bit more.
As for Andy S. showing up for 2 races a year is highly suspect period.
LLS was killing it now he's pack fodder. I can think of Possatto when he was with a smaller team had good results(we know why). So LLS going to the smaller team in his home country doesn't seem like too much of a hindrance to maintaining the network.
E. Decker is another candidate for exhibit A rider now gone full paniagua.

 

[Red Lobster]

E. Decker is another candidate for exhibit A rider now gone full paniagua.

Yeah Erik Dekker's results have really tapered off post-2006, eh?

ETA: assuming you are thinking of Thomas, yeah I'd agree.

 

[proffate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xph4RD5vmj4

Return from suspension with a 50km solo break, while the chase group (full of slouches like Tony Martin, Phillipe Gilbert) barely dented his lead.

 

[papisimo98]

Yeah Erik Dekker's results have really tapered off post-2006, eh?

ETA: assuming you are thinking of Thomas, yeah I'd agree.

Yes thanks for the correction. Thomas Dekker.

 

[trevim]

I think LLS, De Gendt and Moser are pretty much the same now....

 

[Big Doopie]

Good thing Astana got rid of the Iglinskiy doper, frees up a slot for LLS.

only because they couldnt have another serial doper -- pellizotti.

this team literally actively recruits guys who are serial dopers (just like their boss).

can we believe anything that this team does?

rhetorical.

rhetorical.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

only because they couldnt have another serial doper -- pellizotti.

this team literally actively recruits guys who are serial dopers (just like their boss).

can we believe anything that this team does?

rhetorical.

rhetorical.

Stop hating on Astana, they are no worse than anyone else + in case you don't remember, Nibalis dad wouldn't let him back to Sicily if he doped, so we know he is cleanzzzz

 

[Big Doopie]

stop hating on astana, they are no worse than anyone else + in case you don't remember, nibalis dad wouldn't let him back to sicily if he doped, so we know he is cleanzzzz

..........

 

[Futuroscope]

I've kinda been following his Vuelta. Very different rider.
It got me kind of wondering.
Is he exhibit A for a rider who went from a full program to paniagua?
Or is there more to his drop off in performance that maybe I'm not aware of such as injury etc..
I mean he went from fighting for Tour stages and top ten overall to well,.....zilch.
Who else would be a good candidate?
Cunego?

Cunego, Schleck...same thing. These riders are nothing special without their full programs.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Cunego, Schleck...same thing. These riders are nothing special without their full programs.

Not same thing at all. Cunego has hinted that he wasn't playing ball earlier in his career (as if we couldn't have guessed) and has carved out a pretty decent niche on whatever program he is now on, whether paniagua or low-level program. Even with the drop off in results he's had in the last 18 months or so, he's still a better rider than Schleck.

And if he's been paniagua for the last few years (I will say 2010 to cut off his monuments and mountaintop wins in the Vuelta, however there are plenty of signs that he was transitioning away from the full program he was on in 2004-6 to at least a lower level doping regime for a couple of years before that) he has been top 10 of both the Giro (2012) and Tour (2011). If that's not on a full program, I'd suggest that that makes him certainly more than "nothing special".

Schleck on the other hand appears to have a bad case of the Cobos. Cobo has medical justification, at least.

It's all on where you stand regarding who is a talented cyclist who doped, and who is a chemically created golem. For me, it would appear that Cunego is the former, since he still has results at a point where he's clearly not on a full program, even if your mileage may vary on clean/cleanish/lower level program than 2004.

 

[roundabout]

Not same thing at all. Cunego has hinted that he wasn't playing ball earlier in his career (as if we couldn't have guessed) and has carved out a pretty decent niche on whatever program he is now on, whether paniagua or low-level program. Even with the drop off in results he's had in the last 18 months or so, he's still a better rider than Schleck.

And if he's been paniagua for the last few years (I will say 2010 to cut off his monuments and mountaintop wins in the Vuelta, however there are plenty of signs that he was transitioning away from the full program he was on in 2004-6 to at least a lower level doping regime for a couple of years before that) he has been top 10 of both the Giro (2012) and Tour (2011). If that's not on a full program, I'd suggest that that makes him certainly more than "nothing special".

Schleck on the other hand appears to have a bad case of the Cobos. Cobo has medical justification, at least.

It's all on where you stand regarding who is a talented cyclist who doped, and who is a chemically created golem. For me, it would appear that Cunego is the former, since he still has results at a point where he's clearly not on a full program, even if your mileage may vary on clean/cleanish/lower level program than 2004.

Err, if Cobo has a medical justification, than so has Schleck.

And as for Cunego. It's simple. He is a liar and in no way he was clean in 2011 and 2012.