Mark Cavendish excuses for 2016

[jojogogo]

What excuses will Cavendish give for not winning in 2016?

I would of won had i been on a Specialized

 

[yaco]

Is this threadworthy.

 

[thehog]

'I need 27 riders in my lead out train to win, I can't be expected to win with 8"

 

[SeriousSam]

'The data wasn't high dimensional enough'

 

[fungusbear]

Cav will have a good season. He has like 15 wins this season, it's not as if he has completed fallen apart (although this years Tour was a lot worse than 2008-2012)

 

[TomLPC]

I would've won but the team didn't give me the opportunity to attack

 

[ray j willings]

I will say it again . Sky ruined Cav. They put him on that stupid diet to try and win the Olympics and he has never been the same since.
He has lost that magical turn of speed he used to have. Its gone and I doubt it will come back.
You don't mess with perfection. Sky did and he's never been as good since.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Cav will have a good season. He has like 15 wins this season, it's not as if he has completed fallen apart (although this years Tour was a lot worse than 2008-2012)

Agree with this, he will win plenty next season as he's still quick enough. He still won a stage on the Tour when he finally realised he couldn't just blast everyone from the front like previous years and should win a few more yet.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

I will say it again . Sky ruined Cav. They put him on that stupid diet to try and win the Olympics and he has never been the same since.
He has lost that magical turn of speed he used to have. Its gone and I doubt it will come back.
You don't mess with perfection. Sky did and he's never been as good since.

Not just Sky though. Cav was desperate to get that Olympic gold, especially as it was on home soil and they made a plan to do that together as he believed he needed to be stronger on the short climbs. It's not like he wasn't in form to do it either, a couple of weeks before the Olympics at the Tour he won one of the best sprints I've seen in years (stage 19?).

 

[jsem94]

Britain just raced like retards in that Olympic race, thinking that they could just ride tempo in the front of the bunch, even when half of the peloton broke free. The team size was way too small to be able to control the race like that.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

I will say it again . Sky ruined Cav. They put him on that stupid diet to try and win the Olympics and he has never been the same since.
He has lost that magical turn of speed he used to have. Its gone and I doubt it will come back.
You don't mess with perfection. Sky did and he's never been as good since.

Not just Sky though. Cav was desperate to get that Olympic gold, especially as it was on home soil and they made a plan to do that together as he believed he needed to be stronger on the short climbs. It's not like he wasn't in form to do it either, a couple of weeks before the Olympics at the Tour he won one of the best sprints I've seen in years (stage 19?).

Problem was everybody could see that desperation and allowed Britain to waste energy & were perfectly happy not to help

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

I will say it again . Sky ruined Cav. They put him on that stupid diet to try and win the Olympics and he has never been the same since.
He has lost that magical turn of speed he used to have. Its gone and I doubt it will come back.
You don't mess with perfection. Sky did and he's never been as good since.

Not just Sky though. Cav was desperate to get that Olympic gold, especially as it was on home soil and they made a plan to do that together as he believed he needed to be stronger on the short climbs. It's not like he wasn't in form to do it either, a couple of weeks before the Olympics at the Tour he won one of the best sprints I've seen in years (stage 19?).

Stage 18.

I agree with you, I don't think it was because of Sky he lost his magical turn of speed.

 

[WC Roadie]

Re: Re:

I will say it again . Sky ruined Cav. They put him on that stupid diet to try and win the Olympics and he has never been the same since.
He has lost that magical turn of speed he used to have. Its gone and I doubt it will come back.
You don't mess with perfection. Sky did and he's never been as good since.

Not just Sky though. Cav was desperate to get that Olympic gold, especially as it was on home soil and they made a plan to do that together as he believed he needed to be stronger on the short climbs. It's not like he wasn't in form to do it either, a couple of weeks before the Olympics at the Tour he won one of the best sprints I've seen in years (stage 19?).

Stage 18.

I agree with you, I don't think it was because of Sky he lost his magical turn of speed.

I agree with all of you. Cav is still one of the best, he lost a step or two but he can still win.

 

[Opalius]

I'll readily admit, that I've never been much of a Cavendish fan - mostly due to my dislike for coordinated sprint stages, but I actually think that he will get a number of surprising wins the coming season. And with surprising wins, I am thinking of less straight sprint wins, and more "classic" wins.

I think the change to Dimension Data will do him good, and he just might find it enjoyable to compete for different types of victories than what he's been used to.

 

[wendybnt]

He's a victim of his own success really. He was so successful that now he's expected to account for when he doesn't win. Nobody else has to.

He didn't help himself with his arrogant attitude and of course he's having to make way for newer talent, which is inevitable.

But, he remains as one of the most spectacular talents of this century.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

He's a victim of his own success really. He was so successful that now he's expected to account for when he doesn't win. Nobody else has to.

He didn't help himself with his arrogant attitude and of course he's having to make way for newer talent, which is inevitable.

But, he remains as one of the most spectacular talents of this century.

This^^.

He used to win 22 (edit) races a year so now when he "only" wins 15 the media pound him for reasons why. Most racers would kill to be him, and most racers don;t have to answer stupid question from the media.

I hope Cav has a great year in '16!

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

He's a victim of his own success really. He was so successful that now he's expected to account for when he doesn't win. Nobody else has to.

He didn't help himself with his arrogant attitude and of course he's having to make way for newer talent, which is inevitable.

But, he remains as one of the most spectacular talents of this century.

This^^.

He used to win 30 races a year so now when he "only" wins 15 the media pound him for reasons why. Most racers would kill to be him, and most racers don;t have to answer stupid question from the media.

I hope Cav has a great year in '16!

Lol he has never won 30 races a year...the most he ever did in one year was 22. His career average is about 15 wins a year which is still amazing. He managed 14 this season. The reason he is getting flak now is because of the "lesser" quality of the races he is winning. Here are his gt stage victories:

2009 - 9 gt stage wins
2010 - 8
2011 - 7
2012 - 6
2013 - 7

He goes from that to just a single gt stage win in the last 2 years (yes I know he crashed out of the 2014 Tour.) Etixx wanted him to perform best in the Tour. I still would love to see him get back to his best. I know many don't like him, but he's my favorite sprinter.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Mark Renshaw ledout too early
Eisel could not bring me to the front
EBH sprinted for himself

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Mark Renshaw ledout too early
Eisel could not bring me to the front
EBH sprinted for himself

We need a tick and flick sheet with all of those and a couple of these:

Someone paved over an anthill on the finishing straight
Goss lead it out too early
Sprinter xxxxx wouldn't let me change my line
Greipel looked at me
Kittel's hair is distracting
Ewan is so small you can't see him over the handlebars
Gaviria wouldn't let me take his wheel
Bouhanni sprinted too straight

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Worried about his daughter staying out late (Yes, she is only three, but they do live in Essex...)

 

[blackcat]

What excuses will Cavendish give for not winning in 2016?

I would of won had i been on a Specialized

He lost about 4-5lbs, he was noticably leaner, but this hurt his terminal velocity. I still think Cav has the terminal velocity to exceed the best output of Kittel and Greipel, but he needs the other 4lbs of muscle for his sprint.

Losing the weight hurt his win potency and potential. I reckon Greipel lost about 6lbs, but it helped Greipel, because Greipel came into the finish a little fresher to unleash his sprint. Cav, coming into the finish fresh enough, was never a problem for Cav, he was always fresh enough to show his rivals a clean set of wheels and win by lengths. So he may actually be a little bit fresher in the finish now, but he is a little bit slower because he lost some muscle and typeII muscle fibres.

Cav's talent and best assets were, i) terminal velocity (unpeered as I saw it), ii) his aero profile, the CdA, and iii) his speed endurance, he could go from over 200 metres and hold on with his nose in the wind, which was partly related to his lean CdA.

But Cav losing the muscle, he failed to triangulate this performance gain wrt to his competitors. It was a monumental fail imo. He is still the GOAT no matter what, and has been great to watch, and great entertainment, but he is too young to go out without racking up 15 wins a year over the next 4 years. I still think he has 100 pro wins left in him. And I am not talking crits and post tour crits and 6 days and track and fixed Boxmeer rides.

nb. But see: Simon Gerrans, when Gerro's rivals in the Ardennes are losing weight too, and leaning up, Gerrans is maintaining his weight, working on his sprint and jump, so his sprint rivals(the verb rival)/compares to/competes with/ the champions like Gilbert Bartoli and Valverde.

You have to triangulate your performance niche and talent within the opposition from your rivals. Now Gerro can outsprint all except Sagan and Matthews (problem when MM is on your own team)...

So Cav needs to get his weight back and terminal velocity.

*** this assumed that sprinters and others get slower as they get older. I took this into account. Even conceding this, Cav lost speed, lost too much weight, and could not beat riders like Greipel and Kittel over the last 2 seasons. Well, those two sprinters are not half the rider Cav is. Cav should still have dominance over them. GOAT.

 

[blackcat]

'I need 27 riders in my lead out train to win, I can't be expected to win with 8"

Hog, but this is not correct.

I think his first season, when he had the tete-a-tete with Greipel on T-Mobile, he went to one of the races in Belgium, that leads into Harelbeke, I think it was Dreidaagse de Panne, he is only 20, he could have been 21, and he has no support, a decimated bunch of about 12 are the remainder of the peel from the peloton, and he is fighting for the wheels on the messy finish over the last 400 metres, and going thru a maze of riders like Robbie Mcewen would. And Cav won. I think he won on account of the fact Francesco Chicchi was undergeared, for some reason Chicchi had it in a 12 or something, and could not wind up a big enough gear. Chicchi was underrated for his speed, I think there was a Paris Tours where Chicchi came second or something, but on the finish he was doing 2 to 1, on everyone, if it was mano-a-mano he would have won by a dozen lengths. Petacchi said he was quicker than Allessandro, in training Chicchi would win, Petacchi could not beat him. But Chicchi was not a sprinter, he could not win. Cav is a sprinter, he wins, and his terminal velocity is unpeered.

Also, the sprint in 2009 San Remo when he beat Heinrich Haussler, he had no help on the Via Roma, he came from way back, that with Robbie McEwen's London stage 1 TdF sprint in 2007 is the best ever sprint I have seen.

Cav never needed a leadout train. He was just as skilful at navigating a sprint as McEwen. Cav is also the fairest sprinter i have seen, he never came off his line. (ok, you can give me two or three examples, and the crash by HH).

I will say it again. Cav is GOAT

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Britain just raced like retards in that Olympic race, thinking that they could just ride tempo in the front of the bunch, even when half of the peloton broke free. The team size was way too small to be able to control the race like that.

this.

Cav should not have been leader. Like in many races, to win the race, you have to be willing to lose the race.

Cav had to be willing to lose the race to win. They should have had their other four riders be able to use Cav in the bunch, by getting in breaks, and just rolling thru, and not doing proper turns, and just lie thru their teeth and say they were riding for Cav, but really, they were riding for that move to go away, but get a free ride when the move went away.

The problem was Cav had too much political power and sway and influence within the team and on a home-soil olympics for the myth making that olympics do unpeered.
ii) the hubris of GB, thinking they could control a peloton over 250km with only 4 riders (as workers) and ride the peloton for a sprint.
iii) inexperience by the GB panel thinking this was a valid tactic. It was not. (ok, so they had to compete with the political interests of Cav and the home town and myth making olympics).

Cav won the 2011 Copenhagen Worlds, but what, they had about 8 workers working for the sprint. Germany were working for the sprint. Australia were working for the sprint. So that was 24 riders working for the sprint. London, 4 riders working for the sprint. Maybe if you had Cancellara, Martin, Boonen, and Wiggins working for a sprint, it could have been pulled off. Otherwise, no chance.

To win, Cav had to be willing to lose. And he needed his other four teammates all to be given free rein and a chance to win in moves off the front. And Cav to be isolated at home in the bunch, with no help, with no shelter. he had to do it himself. he could not have the deck stacked in his favour.

Just like the Worlds last year in Ponferrada Spain where Kwiatkowski won, Gerrans goes in as raging favourite, I think Eddy Merckx said "this is (paradoxically) the reason why Gerrans WILL NOT win". It is an in-built natural organic handicap. When Cav is so imperious in the sprint, no one will ever wish to ride him to the line, because this is default gifting Cav the victory. This is why Boonen was so happy when Sagan won this year, because he was the race MVP, he rode it by himself, attacked by himself, rode with his nose in the wind, and is the best cyclist in pro cycling in the world. last year in Spain, Gerran's form and sprint finish were so good, everyone is watching him, and expecting him to work and do turns. inbuilt natural handicap. favouritism neutralised

Well, with the organic handicap, no one had it in their interests to ride Cav to the finish in the peloton in 2012 London Olympics. They were not going to do it. Even if Sky bribed all their foreign riders in London Olympics roadrace, to ride in Cav's equipe. It was never gonna happen for Cav.

 

[Beech Mtn]

 

[Mr.White]

'I need 27 riders in my lead out train to win, I can't be expected to win with 8"

Hog, but this is not correct.

I think his first season, when he had the tete-a-tete with Greipel on T-Mobile, he went to one of the races in Belgium, that leads into Harelbeke, I think it was Dreidaagse de Panne, he is only 20, he could have been 21, and he has no support, a decimated bunch of about 12 are the remainder of the peel from the peloton, and he is fighting for the wheels on the messy finish over the last 400 metres, and going thru a maze of riders like Robbie Mcewen would. And Cav won. I think he won on account of the fact Francesco Chicchi was undergeared, for some reason Chicchi had it in a 12 or something, and could not wind up a big enough gear. Chicchi was underrated for his speed, I think there was a Paris Tours where Chicchi came second or something, but on the finish he was doing 2 to 1, on everyone, if it was mano-a-mano he would have won by a dozen lengths. Petacchi said he was quicker than Allessandro, in training Chicchi would win, Petacchi could not beat him. But Chicchi was not a sprinter, he could not win. Cav is a sprinter, he wins, and his terminal velocity is unpeered.

Also, the sprint in 2009 San Remo when he beat Heinrich Haussler, he had not help on the Via Roma, he came from way back, that with Robbie McEwen's London stage 1 TdF sprint in 2007 is the best ever sprint I have seen.

Cav never needed a leadout train. He was just as skilful at navigating a sprint as McEwen. Cav is also the fairest sprinter i have seen, he never came off his line. (ok, you can give me two or three examples, and the crash by HH).

I will say it again. Cav is GOAT

No, he is not. Cippo is better, and also Freddy Maertens