Mark Renshaw

[Eric8-A]

So it seems Mark Renshaw wants some results for himself. I know the role of being the leadout means sacrificing your own chances for a win. I don't know if he's getting sick of doing leadouts for other teammates, but I'm sure it's a much better feeling to cross the line first than having a teammate do it with your help.

I really wasn't sure about Zabel's comment saying that it's best for Renshaw to be the best leadout man in the world instead of him being the third or fourth best sprinter in the world. Is that being sort of selfish on Zabel's part?

I do believe Renshaw is capable of winning races himself. Could switching to another team be a better option for him, or will HTC let him have more freedom in 2011?

 

[auscyclefan94]

it is pretty crazy on HTC's beahlf that this year they had Cavendish, Greipel, Goss, Renshaw & Howard all on the same team. No greipel next year but even so I am surprised that Goss didn't jump ship. The guy is ready and personally a team like BMC or Katusha wouldn't be a bad choice as he would have some strong riders to work for him and have opportunities in lost of the races the guy wants to do well in.

 

[boardhanger]

it is pretty crazy on HTC's beahlf that this year they had Cavendish, Greipel, Goss, Renshaw & Howard all on the same team. No greipel next year but even so I am surprised that Goss didn't jump ship. The guy is ready and personally a team like BMC or Katusha wouldn't be a bad choice as he would have some strong riders to work for him and have opportunities in lost of the races the guy wants to do well in.

I wish him all the best. He's got a good contract stick with that. His results do not differ much from other decent riders who are not 'top billing' in their teams. Vattenfalls was a good win. Tour de Picardie or TDU or Danmark Rundt are good races but not 'Top Billing'. I say look for your chance in a big race prove yourself then look for another team.

 

[Eric8-A]

It is crazy, for the past two years, I've been seeing key riders from HTC leaving. It's crazy how many riders followed Greipel to Lotto. I always joke around by saying that they're leaving because of Cavendish. given how the entire team seems to be built around him.

What would you do if you were Mark Renshaw? Stay on HTC or leave to some other team?

 

[Anonymous]

The trouble is for Renshaw, Zabel is right, hed be the fourth or fifth best sprinter. Is that better than beaing the worlds best leadout man. who knows.

Trouble is, if he decided to leave I think the offers would be Sky, do you want to lead out eddie boss, or do you want to lead out cioleck, etc etc etc. He's gone and got himself typecast.

 

[ingsve]

I think there is a big powerplay right now at HTC to see who will step into Greipels role. Cavendish can't do all races so someone has to act as sprinter in the races Greipel covered the last few years. I think this is simply Renshaw throwing his hat into the ring.

The thing we never saw was Greipel riding in support of Cavendish but instead rode a completely separate program. I doubt that someone will get that kind of role next year. My guess is that they will end up sharing a lot of the work between them while still working for Cav in other races.

 

[ingsve]

I'm also not sure he would be that good as a finishing sprinter. He's mainly been doing lead outs and that usually means you're not as speedy as a true sprinter is. Leading out is has more to do with keeping a high pace for a several hundred meters and not so much about accelerating.

He would certainly not be the 4-5th best sprinter in the world I think. I could probably think of 10 on the spot that would probably be better faster most of the time.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The trouble is for Renshaw, Zabel is right, hed be the fourth or fifth best sprinter. Is that better than beaing the worlds best leadout man. who knows.

Trouble is, if he decided to leave I think the offers would be Sky, do you want to lead out eddie boss, or do you want to lead out cioleck, etc etc etc. He's gone and got himself typecast.

If you are 4th or 5th worlds best sprinter, why would you stay as a leadout guy? The guy has room for improvement. I personally think that a he would get quite a few big offers. Renshaw is quicker than eddy boss in a pure sprint.

I'm also not sure he would be that good as a finishing sprinter. He's mainly been doing lead outs and that usually means you're not as speedy as a true sprinter is. Leading out is has more to do with keeping a high pace for a several hundred meters and not so much about accelerating.

He would certainly not be the 4-5th best sprinter in the world I think. I could probably think of 10 on the spot that would probably be better faster most of the time.

How can you say that? He's clearly very quick. Came 2nd in stage one of this years tdf stage, just behind Pettachi. The guy has not been given much opportunities.

I think there is a big powerplay right now at HTC to see who will step into Greipels role. Cavendish can't do all races so someone has to act as sprinter in the races Greipel covered the last few years. I think this is simply Renshaw throwing his hat into the ring.

The thing we never saw was Greipel riding in support of Cavendish but instead rode a completely separate program. I doubt that someone will get that kind of role next year. My guess is that they will end up sharing a lot of the work between them while still working for Cav in other races.

Renshaw should and deserves to get opportunities to lead in big races.

Personally i would go with
1 Cav
2 farrar
3 greipel
4 pettachi (a few years ago he would of been 2nd)
5 Renshaw

Chicchi would be up there but you don't see much of him.

 

[ingsve]

How can you say that? He's clearly very quick. Came 2nd in stage one of this years tdf stage, just behind Pettachi. The guy has not been given much opportunities.

Coming second in a sprint does not prove that you are quick and by quick I'm talking about acceleration. I have not seen anything to indicate that Renshaw has the acceleration to match other top sprinters. What he does have is the ability to keep a high top speed for a long time and there are sprinters like Hushovd that rely on that strength as well but Hushovd is also not the quickest of sprinters.

It's true that Renshaw hasn't gotten many opportunities but looking at the times that he has sprinted for himself there is nothing to suggest that he would be as good as 4th or 5th in the world. What he does have is a good ability to position himself which is another good lead out trait so he would probably be fairly good at placing in the top 10 in races but I see him getting more 2-5s than wins.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Coming second in a sprint does not prove that you are quick and by quick I'm talking about acceleration. I have not seen anything to indicate that Renshaw has the acceleration to match other top sprinters. What he does have is the ability to keep a high top speed for a long time and there are sprinters like Hushovd that rely on that strength as well but Hushovd is also not the quickest of sprinters.

It's true that Renshaw hasn't gotten many opportunities but looking at the times that he has sprinted for himself there is nothing to suggest that he would be as good as 4th or 5th in the world. What he does have is a good ability to position himself which is another good lead out trait so he would probably be fairly good at placing in the top 10 in races but I see him getting more 2-5s than wins.

What will he do to show he has a strong acceleration? I don't understand how he doesn't have a strong acceleration and not all sprinters have a big acceleration anyway and can be successful. Cipo and Pettachi in the early 2000's both had awesome leadouts that were so fast that they were pretty much launced at sucha high speed that they barely had to accelerate that much to win.

What times have you seen that indicate he doesn't have big acceleration?

 

[Michele]

The trouble is for Renshaw, Zabel is right, hed be the fourth or fifth best sprinter. Is that better than beaing the worlds best leadout man. who knows.

Could be just an excuse for get a higher pay check, no?

 

[Frosty]

Is asking whether Renshaw would be happier where he is or in the same position as Ciolek a fair question?

It is crazy, for the past two years, I've been seeing key riders from HTC leaving. It's crazy how many riders followed Greipel to Lotto. I always joke around by saying that they're leaving because of Cavendish. given how the entire team seems to be built around him.

Yeah a lot have left but they have had a lot of talent so people end up as a domestique whereas they would be prefer to have more races for themself and maybe also have a chance to choose their races. Greipel would want to bring along some of the guys who he has worked with before so its perhaps not much of a surprise. Also, i think Lotto may have not filled their budget last year as Evans left late in the transfer period? He was one of the highest paid riders in the entire peloton and his late departure didnt allow enough time for the team to get replacements. Therefore they had money to spend this year and if you're getting a top sprinter in then you may as well get him in some good help.

What would you do if you were Mark Renshaw? Stay on HTC or leave to some other team?

Interesting to see who out of him and Goss gets to go for the sprints in the TdU. Im assuming that Cav will be working for them rather than the other way round given they are both aussies and he wont be on top form.

 

[ingsve]

What will he do to show he has a strong acceleration? I don't understand how he doesn't have a strong acceleration and not all sprinters have a big acceleration anyway and can be successful. Cipo and Pettachi in the early 2000's both had awesome leadouts that were so fast that they were pretty much launced at sucha high speed that they barely had to accelerate that much to win.

Well, I'm not saying he wouldn't get results if he got the right backup etc but I don't think compared to the skills of other sprinters that he could be classified as the 4-5th best sprinter in the world.

Cipo was also more of a power sprinter who could hold a very high speed for a long time. He too was not the fastest sprinter around when he rode though he did show decent acceleration at times as well.

What times have you seen that indicate he doesn't have big acceleration?

That comes from just watching him when he leads out and more importantly when watching him sprint for himself like in stage 1 of the Tour this year, stage 3 in ENECO Tour 2009, stage 1 Criterium International 2009, stage 2 Paris - Nice 2009. Even when he won a stage in Denmark 2010 he just barely passed Goss who stayed on and became 2nd.

It's clear from just watching him that he is more of a power sprinter than a very quick sprinter.

 

[Kvinto]

He is fast in the leadout, but honestly, is he one of the best sprinters? I know that he is one of the best leadout men in the peloton, like Julian Dean and Danilo Hondo. No less, no more. There are too many sprinters in HTC: Greipel is out but Degenkolb is in, the amount will be the same as this years. In this team his role is clear - leadout man, and he's ready to carry out this role for another couple of years and only then try work for himself. Only then we'll see how strong the sprinter Mark Renshow can be, because all you thing about him now is nothing more than your subjective evaluation

 

[bicing]

HTC did succession planning at the Vuelta. They made sure Goss was a good leadout guy and that was proven true. Goss will be Cav's new leadout man. Renshaw will be rewarded with a shot as the new Greipel. But if he's not delivering wins by March then Renshaw will go back to Cav's man and Goss will take over.

 

[Sydney21]

HTC did succession planning at the Vuelta. They made sure Goss was a good leadout guy and that was proven true. Goss will be Cav's new leadout man. Renshaw will be rewarded with a shot as the new Greipel. But if he's not delivering wins by March then Renshaw will go back to Cav's man and Goss will take over.

It would make 10 times more sense to leave Renshaw as Cavs leadout with all his experience and make Goss the new Greipel. Goss took his chance in the Giro sprint when Greipel wasn't there and won a stage but I get the feeling that he is more interested in the classics in the long term. He did manage to win Plouay this year and has been on the podium in Gent-Wevelgem. I also think he could be suited to Paris-Tours, MSR and possibly even Roubaix and Flanders one day. Either way he will have to make the decision.

I agree Gossy would be much better suited to other teams and should have jumped ship to BMC. He may be a target for Pegasus next year too (depending on how they develop)

 

[Boardslide]

Interesting to see who out of him and Goss gets to go for the sprints in the TdU. Im assuming that Cav will be working for them rather than the other way round given they are both aussies and he wont be on top form.

In this months Procycling mag Cav says he's doing TDU & hoping to be helping Renshaw out. Seeing as Renshaw has just signed to stay at HTC for another 2 years I think it's safe to say he's happy with his position there, leadout in the major races with a chance for himself in others.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Well, I'm not saying he wouldn't get results if he got the right backup etc but I don't think compared to the skills of other sprinters that he could be classified as the 4-5th best sprinter in the world.

That comes from just watching him when he leads out and more importantly when watching him sprint for himself like in stage 1 of the Tour this year, stage 3 in ENECO Tour 2009, stage 1 Criterium International 2009, stage 2 Paris - Nice 2009. Even when he won a stage in Denmark 2010 he just barely passed Goss who stayed on and became 2nd.

It's clear from just watching him that he is more of a power sprinter than a very quick sprinter.

This.

I saw the same thing, watching these races.
Having said that, given his intention, I think he was a steal, at 102 CQ points to buy, which many of us missed!
Strictly second string strongman sprinter, who could get some results is lesser races.
Watching Greipel struggle for that illusive first stage win at the Giro shows that marginal differences make major distinctions.

 

[Mambo95]

It is crazy, for the past two years, I've been seeing key riders from HTC leaving. It's crazy how many riders followed Greipel to Lotto. I always joke around by saying that they're leaving because of Cavendish. given how the entire team seems to be built around him.

What would you do if you were Mark Renshaw? Stay on HTC or leave to some other team?

What I would do in his position would largely depend on money. I believe HTC aren't the most generous.

But all money being equal, I'd stay with Cav. It's got to be more satisfying being a key part of a winning team in the big races, than coming 4th/5th on your own.

 

[LeakyLens]

In this months Procycling mag Cav says he's doing TDU & hoping to be helping Renshaw out. Seeing as Renshaw has just signed to stay at HTC for another 2 years I think it's safe to say he's happy with his position there, leadout in the major races with a chance for himself in others.

Cavendish's quote: My first race is going to be the Tour Down Under where I may even help Mark Renshaw out, and I've already got all of my training plans to take me up until then.

 

[The Hitch]

Cavendish's quote: My first race is going to be the Tour Down Under where I may even help Mark Renshaw out, and I've already got all of my training plans to take me up until then.

Wow this is rare. Someone posts a Cav quote without creating an individual thread to say how evil he is.

 

[ingsve]

So it seems Mark Renshaw wants some results for himself. I know the role of being the leadout means sacrificing your own chances for a win. I don't know if he's getting sick of doing leadouts for other teammates, but I'm sure it's a much better feeling to cross the line first than having a teammate do it with your help.

I really wasn't sure about Zabel's comment saying that it's best for Renshaw to be the best leadout man in the world instead of him being the third or fourth best sprinter in the world. Is that being sort of selfish on Zabel's part?

I do believe Renshaw is capable of winning races himself. Could switching to another team be a better option for him, or will HTC let him have more freedom in 2011?

So, it turns out that this is a misquote of Zabel. What he actually said is that it's better for Renshaw to be the best lead out in the world than to be the 3rd, 4th or 5th fastest sprinter on the team.

Peiper and Zabel know that Renshaw wants a chance to win races for himself, but both made it clear where they think the Australian belongs.

"If we have to make hard decisions, Matt Goss and Leigh Howard are still faster - no disrespect to Mark Renshaw," said Peiper.

 

[auscyclefan94]

So, it turns out that this is a misquote of Zabel. What he actually said is that it's better for Renshaw to be the best lead out in the world than to be the 3rd, 4th or 5th fastest sprinter on the team.

I'd be interesdted to hear what renshaw thinks about that article. I will admit defeat about renshaw in this therad, ingsve.

Personally I see Goss as a future Oscar Friere. Howard seems to be more of a pure sprinter, the guy knocked off some pretty formidable opposition in Oman this year.

 

[abbaskip]

I'd be interesdted to hear what renshaw thinks about that article. I will admit defeat about renshaw in this therad, ingsve.

Personally I see Goss as a future Oscar Friere. Howard seems to be more of a pure sprinter, the guy knocked off some pretty formidable opposition in Oman this year.

I think you've described those two quite well.

Renshaw is a strange case, growing up he was a reasonably similar rider to a guy like Leigh Howard on the track (he raced and won the kilo and team sprint at the Junior worlds, but was also extremely strong in the pursuit, scratch, madison etc as a U19 and early year senior). He would have been a GREAT omnium rider if he stuck to track instead of going to road (though he would have been much poorer!)

I guess looking at styles, Renshaw on the track was almost a mixture between Howard and Meyer. Renshaw's top speed though just justified him riding the kilo at the junior world titles. Michael Rogers also raced the similar track events (apart from the sprint stuff), so it makes sense that Renshaw doesn't necessarily have the worlds best kick.

When you watch Howard and Meyer race a madison together, Howard is the sprinter, Meyer the work horse. Meyer is also bloody fast, but not straight off the mark like Howard.

 

[abbaskip]

Actually, just thinking, in hindsight, maybe Renshaw missed his calling.

He was a freak junior rider (I grew up with him), and when (as a first year U19) they decided his pet event was going to be the kilo and team sprint (for that year's worlds and the next year's as well) I was suprised. I always thought he was a better pursuiter/scratch race/points race/madison rider.

So he spent two years as a junior riding the short track sprint events, then as a first year senior he decided to change back to the longer track events, to try and get himself ready for a future as a road sprinter.

Perhaps if he was pushed a different direction as a first year U19, and made a pursuiter, he would instead have gone on to become a Stuart O'Grady, Brad McGee or Michael Rogers style rider.