Master's Riders - Where's are the sanctions?

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Anonymous

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Marcus135 said:
Gone from sport for good. No negative publicity. Nothing wrong as far as i can see...
You are joking right?
 
Apr 10, 2009
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I was discussing this with a good friend of mine and he said this is exactly how it would go down. Utterly pathetic, I hope they are outed and then we can know they are nothing but cheats.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Huh, difficult to see how USA Cycling would be able to keep positive tests for masters riders quiet. Lance is one thing, and can understand how that happened. But the rank-and-file?
 
slowoldman said:
I was discussing this with a good friend of mine and he said this is exactly how it would go down. Utterly pathetic, I hope they are outed and then we can know they are nothing but cheats.
Disappointing. But, as you note, not surprising.

If any of these folks are ex-pros, this will be a serious injustice. As it is, Masters racing does deserve much tighter scrutiny.

Perhaps we will just have to figure it out by process of elimination by reviewing USCF results.

Dave.
 
Oct 6, 2010
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TeamSkyFans said:
You are joking right?
No im serious. A positive test means they will be removed from the sport this way they are removed from the sport also. There also can be complications so it is cheaper this way. It also stops negative publicity.

End result they are gone same as they would be if they were done for doping.
 
Oct 7, 2009
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Marcus135 said:
No im serious. A positive test means they will be removed from the sport this way they are removed from the sport also. There also can be complications so it is cheaper this way. It also stops negative publicity.

End result they are gone same as they would be if they were done for doping.
Sure they are gone ... but wouldn't it be better if they were outed as cheats too ? If their results still stand, then they still got away with it!
 
May 20, 2010
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Also, aren't the national agencies required to announce any violations?

If they are doing a retirement deal, then they are breaking rules. If they will do that for a rider that doesn't actually matter what the hell would they do with pro riders with a higher reputation? Corruption in the sport comes from the UCI and trickles down through to the grassroots.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Marcus135 said:
No im serious. A positive test means they will be removed from the sport this way they are removed from the sport also. There also can be complications so it is cheaper this way. It also stops negative publicity.

End result they are gone same as they would be if they were done for doping.
So what about the guys that came second, or third, or wherever the **** stops. Dont they deserve to know they were robbed. Dont they deserve the wins.

Fine, cover it up, let them retire with dignity, let them keep their wins and their trophys. :/
 
The rumor going around is a little different than what was posted. The rumor I heard is you can accept guilt and your ban and avoid the public outing. Some have suggested its a life time ban and not a two year first offense.

USA cycling does not have the time or resources to fight every Cervelo riding weekend warrior lawyer that's doped to the gills. If it's true it's fine by me, they are gone and their names while cool to know would have been meaningless to most.

It's just a rumor and the clinic is full of rumors that never came true. To those that **** on USA cycling this is not the Lisa V USAC, dopers are not welcome, ask Zirbell if you don't believe me.
 
Oct 8, 2010
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slowoldman said:
I was discussing this with a good friend of mine and he said this is exactly how it would go down. Utterly pathetic, I hope they are outed and then we can know they are nothing but cheats.
Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about. Any rider who tests positive will be made public on the USADA website, whether or not they retire. USAC has nothing to do with adjudicating doping cases.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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JRTinMA said:
The rumor going around is a little different than what was posted. The rumor I heard is you can accept guilt and your ban and avoid the public outing. Some have suggested its a life time ban and not a two year first offense.

USA cycling does not have the time or resources to fight every Cervelo riding weekend warrior lawyer that's doped to the gills. If it's true it's fine by me, they are gone and their names while cool to know would have been meaningless to most.

It's just a rumor and the clinic is full of rumors that never came true. To those that **** on USA cycling this is not the Lisa V USAC, dopers are not welcome, ask Zirbell if you don't believe me.
No, definitely not the Voight era, lol. The Johnson era has been about 10 times dirtier. Well, at least in terms of the number of riders that have been caught doping. USAC is pretty indifferent to doping and has a totally hands-off approach. Show me one thing they do/say that indicates they aggressively pursue dopers, or even educate riders for that matter. Zirbel has nothing to do with USAC. USADA tested, adjudicated and handed down the sentence. USAC just sat idly by and watched as with all doping cases.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Point being that in the U.S., cycling currently leads the who's who list of dopers. In the last five years, there have been 30 doping related suspensions, including an Olympic "gold medalist" and a few pro "national champions". Not a great track record. Throw in the latest rumored mess at masters nationals and the LA investigation and it's embarrasing. Just looking at the list of those who were sanctioned in the last five years, clearly it is a massive problem at the amateur level, with only a couple of riders being pros.--- (Kirk O'bee (x2), Jonathan Chodroff, Duane Dickey, Andrew Crater, Alberto Blanco, Flavia Oliviera, Tom Zirbel, David Clinger, David Mock, Kenny Williams, J.D. Swanguen, Mitch Comardo, Stephanie Leonard, Tyler Hamilton (x2), Michael Lange, Steven Cisar, Ricardo Hernandez, Michael Kapes, Stephen Alfred, Jared Bunde, Floyd Landis, Joe Papp, Alice Pennington, Cale Redpath, Jason Sager, James Mortenson, Joe Sowers, Alvaro Tardaguila)... http://www.usada.org/sanctions/
 
fasthill said:
Besides National Championships, are there any other Masters events in the US?
'Events' or races?

Pretty sure that there are plenty of Masters races out there.

Whether racing in a Masters category or their CAT, if they are doping they are distorting the results. If they are not distorting, then either they are no good or everyone else in the CAT is doping.

Since we know that they are doping, let's get them exposed and out. Just getting them out doesn't help those that may have been wronged. Nor does it provide much of a disincentive to follow their practice.

An educated guess would suggest that the Masters field - with the money to pay for the luxury and the mid-life crises to assuage - could well lead the doping in local racing scenes.

Then again, if you remove the big demand and the supply stays the same, the price will go down. Price goes down... products are more accessible...

Dave.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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D-Queued said:
'Events' or races?

Pretty sure that there are plenty of Masters races out there.

Whether racing in a Masters category or their CAT, if they are doping they are distorting the results. If they are not distorting, then either they are no good or everyone else in the CAT is doping.

Since we know that they are doping, let's get them exposed and out. Just getting them out doesn't help those that may have been wronged. Nor does it provide much of a disincentive to follow their practice.

An educated guess would suggest that the Masters field - with the money to pay for the luxury and the mid-life crises to assuage - could well lead the doping in local racing scenes.

Then again, if you remove the big demand and the supply stays the same, the price will go down. Price goes down... products are more accessible...

Dave.
There are almost no masters events that have any kind of testing. USA Cycling doesn't have any money..less than zero. If done correctly they can get rid of the few masters dope fiends that are out there. The only big problem they could have is if the bow out technique was exercised on a Nat Champion or record holder. I am sure that the testing cycle would be so slow, the turn around would be months in the making. USA Cycling is a pretty small company. I hope that the officers have a way to keep the results of tests within a small group of people..so that the guilty can be punished.Racers agree to abide by rules and bylaws in the yearly published rulebook. Nowhere in the rulebook does it say subject your business and management style to public flogging. Dirty rider punishment is part of their charter..letting the public decide how to punish the violating rider could be the difference between being in business in the years to come. There are almost no pro races and racers in the US. USA Cycling"s primary function is to oversee the aspect of amateur grass roots cycling. To average public opinion about doping dirty pros into races that have prize lists of 125-300 dollars is crazy. There is no room for doping controls in amateur cycling. Not in the day to day budget or operations. I have had an official's and coach's lic, through the fed for many years.. I have almost had my *** kicked for punishing racers for no helmet,center line violations,hooking,general dangerous riding and the ever popular holding on to car catch up technique. If asked to be part of a doping control for any small race I simply would decline to work the event or any other that would surely turn out to be a circus...be careful what you wish for.. dope control for your club crit will kill it for sure.
 
Sep 14, 2010
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I think with master racers, the worst punishment is the bad publicity. I would rather see a negotiated 1-year public ban than a lifetime hidden ban.
 
Oct 7, 2010
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fatandfast said:
There are almost no masters events that have any kind of testing. USA Cycling doesn't have any money..less than zero. If done correctly they can get rid of the few masters dope fiends that are out there. The only big problem they could have is if the bow out technique was exercised on a Nat Champion or record holder. I am sure that the testing cycle would be so slow, the turn around would be months in the making. USA Cycling is a pretty small company. I hope that the officers have a way to keep the results of tests within a small group of people..so that the guilty can be punished.Racers agree to abide by rules and bylaws in the yearly published rulebook. Nowhere in the rulebook does it say subject your business and management style to public flogging. Dirty rider punishment is part of their charter..letting the public decide how to punish the violating rider could be the difference between being in business in the years to come. There are almost no pro races and racers in the US. USA Cycling"s primary function is to oversee the aspect of amateur grass roots cycling. To average public opinion about doping dirty pros into races that have prize lists of 125-300 dollars is crazy. There is no room for doping controls in amateur cycling. Not in the day to day budget or operations. I have had an official's and coach's lic, through the fed for many years.. I have almost had my *** kicked for punishing racers for no helmet,center line violations,hooking,general dangerous riding and the ever popular holding on to car catch up technique. If asked to be part of a doping control for any small race I simply would decline to work the event or any other that would surely turn out to be a circus...be careful what you wish for.. dope control for your club crit will kill it for sure.

Your a bit low here, think about it this way: The masters races are easy, and you could do 3 events in one day. You win the 40ish masters race, there is $100 or so. You win the 30ish masters race, another $100, then pull a top ten or higher in the Pro 1-2, probably $200 or more at some events. You could potentially pull down $400 or more in one day, a two race day weekend, I know I could make my house payment that way. Race consistently and you have a pretty good thing going.
 
fatandfast said:
There are almost no masters events that have any kind of testing. USA Cycling doesn't have any money..less than zero. If done correctly they can get rid of the few masters dope fiends that are out there. The only big problem they could have is if the bow out technique was exercised on a Nat Champion or record holder. I am sure that the testing cycle would be so slow, the turn around would be months in the making. USA Cycling is a pretty small company. I hope that the officers have a way to keep the results of tests within a small group of people..so that the guilty can be punished.Racers agree to abide by rules and bylaws in the yearly published rulebook. Nowhere in the rulebook does it say subject your business and management style to public flogging. Dirty rider punishment is part of their charter..letting the public decide how to punish the violating rider could be the difference between being in business in the years to come. There are almost no pro races and racers in the US. USA Cycling"s primary function is to oversee the aspect of amateur grass roots cycling. To average public opinion about doping dirty pros into races that have prize lists of 125-300 dollars is crazy. There is no room for doping controls in amateur cycling. Not in the day to day budget or operations. I have had an official's and coach's lic, through the fed for many years.. I have almost had my *** kicked for punishing racers for no helmet,center line violations,hooking,general dangerous riding and the ever popular holding on to car catch up technique. If asked to be part of a doping control for any small race I simply would decline to work the event or any other that would surely turn out to be a circus...be careful what you wish for.. dope control for your club crit will kill it for sure.
Yes, and dope control on club rides would be even more bizarre.

(I have seen race officials do dumber things than your list, but I am sure that there are plenty of folks that acknowledge how appreciated your efforts are)

I was not making an argument to ask Cat 5's to submit to random whereabouts testing.

The point was that making examples makes examples. Whereas hiding hides.

I have seen doping control being announced for major local races, and watched riders leave the start area because they had the stomach flu.

It is pervasive. It is great that a few Masters riders were actually caught - because it can 'expose' the problem. But no exposure is more than a wasted effort, it is an endorsement of the practice.

Dave.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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fatandfast said:
.be careful what you wish for.. dope control for your club crit will kill it for sure.
Nope. It'll just mean your jacked club riders will be too scared to race. They should be run out of the sport, so I think I'm missing your point.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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PotentialPro said:
Your a bit low here, think about it this way: The masters races are easy, and you could do 3 events in one day. You win the 40ish masters race, there is $100 or so. You win the 30ish masters race, another $100, then pull a top ten or higher in the Pro 1-2, probably $200 or more at some events. You could potentially pull down $400 or more in one day, a two race day weekend, I know I could make my house payment that way. Race consistently and you have a pretty good thing going.
welcome to Mr.Roger's neighborhood. Turbo is so fast and fit that if you check results you will see that he get's it done in the 35+ and the 45+ on the same day. recent results show that he was racing Steve Klasna,Jamie Palenetti,Richard Meeker all fast old dudes. Given your numbers 400 dollars in 1 day divided by the number of hours per week they train,minus travel,expenses and equipment,factor in flats,crashes and plain bad luck,average in the years that they made 4000 a year and slept on couches,in vans,tents and motels that it was safer to sleep in your car= average take 200 bucks per week. I left out complaints by family,friends,coworkers..anybody who has had to listen to somebody yell about how selfish racing is knows those complaints are logged into the "priceless" section of your brain. OB CA average cost of 1br 1500 per month. NYC..3300 a month..that's no elec or cable. I love even the idea of a guy talking to his landlord or mortgage company.."the reason I am late with the cash is that I got boxed out in the final corner..believe man I will have your money on Sunday right after I light those clowns up!!"
 

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