Menchov & Sastre: What are they thinking?

[auscyclefan94]

last week we heard about how carlos sastre was so tired after doing 3 Gt's this year

“I’m very tired, but when you recover you see things differently.”

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...ll-work-very-well-together.aspx#ixzz147JoRNAq

Now we hear that he is possibly going to do all 3 GT's again next year!

"I spoke with [Carlos] after the presentation of the route of the Tour de France, and we're considering racing Carlos in all three Grand Tours. It will be difficult, but he has already done it and knows how to deal with it."

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...-and-Carlos-Sastre-in-2011.aspx#ixzz147KHDGzx

Also Menchov is considering going for overall for the giro and tour in one of the most hardest routes a grand tour has seen.

In a chat with ESPN reported on by WielerFlits.nl, team director Joxean Fernandez Matxin confirmed that Menchov will target his second career Giro d'Italia overall victory then turn his sights to the Tour de France

What is going on?????

 

[Moondance]

I agree with ACF... They're totally going berserk over there at Geox.

No way anyone does a Giro-Tour double next season.... And it certainly wont be Menchov. Menchov is a great climber and can finish well, but he needs TTs to win, and both the Giro and the Tour aren't TT heavy.

As for Sastre... He should target the Vuelta, really build towards it, dedicate his season to it, and he might be able to Top-5 or better. But shooting for the moon will get him nowhere.

 

[jens_attacks]

lol menchov could never win next year's giro,never.the double giro-tour?the sickest joke of the day no doubt.
they should go like this:
sastre:giro-vuelta
menchov:tour-vuelta
david blanco:giro-tour-vuelta and win them all.

 

[Michele]

I wouldnt point at the riders but the team management; as usual Matxin/Gianetti teams lack of some solid riders.

This year it's the first time that they have 2 true leaders (althought Sastre is almost at his retire days).

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I wouldn't under-estimate menchov if he went to the giro.
If he peaked, I'd rate him a chance.

 

[jens_attacks]

i was joking but it seems that matxin fernandez isn't:

Sastre would most likely be the captain at the Vuelta, but Matxin admits that there is another possibility, newcomer David Blanco, who he describes as “a veteran who has not been valued enough after getting four titles in the Tour of Portugal.”

watch out for the new mosquera.

 

[Marcus135]

Menchov could do well in the Gero if he peaks then. He wont win the tour next year, that seems like its for schleck or Alberto (not that he will be there). As for them being in the same team. Carlos is getting to old now so i think he will be there to help Menchov apart from in the Vuelta

 

[Francois the Postman]

last week we heard about how carlos sastre was so tired after doing 3 Gt's this year. Now we hear that he is possibly going to do all 3 GT's again next year!

He did say that he was tired, but that seems -eh- normal. He also hinted right away that once he felt recovered, he might well opt to do it all over again as his preferred option.

And the real question is not how he feels after a GT (or 3), but does he recover enough inbetween GTs, and is he really fighting fit before the start of each new GT.

I guess my personal judgement is "no" too, that a more selective targeting would give him a better shot at glory.

"Being tired after 3 GTs", and the way 2010 panned out for him, are apparently not compelling reasons for Sastre to do things differently this year. I guess something besides cool reasoning drives Sastre internally, as he does seem dead keen to keep competing in all 3. I kinda admire that, in a regretting way.

Also Menchov is considering going for overall for the giro and tour in one of the most hardest routes a grand tour has seen. What is going on?????

I guess the Giro simply matters a lot to GEOX, so they would prefer to see headline team presence in this race even if that comes at a cost to the Tour, which they also cannot ignore. The Vuelta matters to Sastre, so voila, here is your programme for next year.

If the ever opportunistic Menchov competes at the Giro it is because he is really in contention. If he no longer has a shot at winning, he opts to drop like a brick, and the Giro might then be less hard on him, compared to the ones were where he was riding for victory. Looking calmly, he might well judge on a personal level, that if he is gonna win something next year, the Giro might well be his best shot, if a lot of stars align. It has happened in the past, so why not give it a go?

You also need to remove a level of promotional bluster, at this time of year, from the statements that riders and teams make about intentions for 2011. Their real goals and competing ambitions tend to be a bit more tempered and measured. Saying they are gonna compete is not the same as actually doing it.

Still, I do expect Sastre to do all 3, and Menchov to do the first 2, maybe skip the Tour if he wins the Giro, or ends up riding it at the sharp end of the stick. I think this suits the team's GT exposure ambitions best. And they certainly spent a lot of money, so they will want to be seen.

Sure, it will cost them percentage points on the chance of Menchov actually winning the 2011 Tour, and Sastre's chances on bagging any of the GTs.

But how realistic are those chances anyway?

 

[Sophistic]

This is very tricky, there has probably never been a GT which favored the skills of Sastre like next years Giro but there also hasnt been a more sastresque TdF like the one in 2011.
A good Giro-Tour as well as Tour-Vuelta double is for Menchov and Sastre very unlikely, considering the toughness of the Giro and the short time between Tour and Vuelta next year.
The Tour is the most important race and Menchov arguably the stronger guy, so he shouldnt ride the Giro but do Tour and Vuelta.
Sastre should go for the overall at the Giro, help Menchov a bit(!) at the Tour and then go for the Vuelta.

 

[python]

it's a team promo talk

how many examples one needs to see that riding both the tour and the giro for the win is just not happening given the course and the time in between?

geox needs the invites and the way to get them is by hyping both of their gc cards. once the invite is secured, only then the true team plan will be put together and even then we the fans may not learn it until after the start.

 

[El Pistolero]

how many examples one needs to see that riding both the tour and the giro for the win is just not happening given the course and the time in between?

geox needs the invites and the way to get them is by hyping both of their gc cards. once the invite is secured, only then the true team plan will be put together and even then we the fans may not learn it until after the start.

How much evidence does one need that Menchov can't beat Andy Schleck or Contador?

 

[python]

How much evidence does one need that Menchov can't beat Andy Schleck or Contador?

how much evidence does one need that your question is misdirected b/c my post has nothing to do with your question ?

 

[El Pistolero]

how much evidence does one need that your question is misdirected b/c my post has nothing to do with your question ?

You're calling it foolish for Menchov to try the giro/Tour double. What other options does he have? He can't win the Tour, at least he has a shot at the Giro.

 

[python]

You're calling it foolish for Menchov to try the giro/Tour double. What other options does he have? He can't win the Tour, at least he has a shot at the Giro.

again you invented every word you ascribed to me and continue arguing with your self. i never said anyone is foolish, i never singled out any rider, i even put a title on my post to help those like you who can only read what's in their heads:

it's a team promo talk

i don't care who can beat who or who is foolish. your question has as much to do with my original post as moon landings with cow reproduction.

 

[DenisMenchov]

You're calling it foolish for Menchov to try the giro/Tour double. What other options does he have? He can't win the Tour, at least he has a shot at the Giro.

He can beat Contador when he`s not doping. I`m ashamed to even talk about that little cheater.

 

[ergmonkey]

I'm with Python here. Geox is a new set-up and they want to make a splash. They're not bound to anything they say right now, and if talking big helps them to get more attention this winter, then that's a good thing for the squad. They want people to pay attention to them, and they need to be welcomed at the biggest races. Nothing too surprising about any of this.

As for what's "possible," the fact that doubling-up in GT's as a winner next year will be very difficult has little or nothing to do with the question of whether riders like Sastre and Menchov will show up for multiple GT's. Given their histories, the real surprise would be if either of those two didn't race hard in at least two GT's.

 

[El Pistolero]

again you invented every word you ascribed to me and continue arguing with your self. i never said anyone is foolish, i never singled out any rider, i even put a title on my post to help those like you who can only read what's in their heads:

it's a team promo talk

i don't care who can beat who or who is foolish. your question has as much to do with my original post as moon landings with cow reproduction.

No, I didn't. You know what you meant with your post. You're probably the only guy arguing against your own post

Menchov can win the Giro and get some free publicity for the team at the Tour. Simple as that.

Menchov can't win the Tour. And well, he's the team leader you know

 

[Escarabajo]

How much evidence does one need that Menchov can't beat Andy Schleck or Contador?

Just because the main favorites are Schleck and Contador does not mean that every other GC contender should skip the Tour. Have you ever heard about crashes? Not to mention a new doping test for blood transfusion (Clinic material, sorry) in the future. But this last point should hurt the other GC contenders as well.

 

[El Pistolero]

Just because the main favorites are Schleck and Contador does not mean that every other GC contender should skip the Tour. Have you ever heard about crashes? Not to mention a new doping test for blood transfusion (Clinic material, sorry) in the future. But this last point should hurt the other GC contenders as well.

Yes, Menchov is far more likely to crash than any other GT contender.
I'm not even talking about him skipping the Tour, but he shouldn't focus his entire career on something he will never win by being the strongest. Because he simply isn't.

 

[El Pistolero]

He can beat Contador when he`s not doping. I`m ashamed to even talk about that little cheater.

Lol, that was funny.

 

[Denkoff]

True

Menchov, J.Rodrigues, Gesink are clear.
Contador A.Shlechck DiLuca doped

 

[scribe]

I wouldn't under-estimate menchov if he went to the giro.
If he peaked, I'd rate him a chance.

without Contador in the race forcing a selection in the mountains, Menchov would be crazy to not focus exclusively on the tour. If he can keep from losing minutes to Shrek along the passes, he could very well win it with the ITT.

 

[BullsFan22]

I agree with people who say Menchov should try the Tour-Vuelta double. Not that he'll win, but he should for actually risk everything on the Tour. You could say he did that last year, but Contador and Schleck were in a different class than everyone else. If he has bad luck and/or bad form, he can always sandbag the rest of it and get ready for the Vuelta, however much time there is in between the two races. If he wants to win two tours next year, then the absolute best way would be to go for the Giro-Vuelta combo. He would be fresh for the Giro and probably confident heading into the Vuelta. Sastre I am not sure about, he didn't have the best of seasons last year, and I think his chances of winning any GT are slim pickens. He's kind of old now and even though there aren't too many TT's on offer, he still would find it tough against the young/energetic climbers or all-rounders. I guess we'll find out what happens, but right now Geox is living in la-la land.

 

[Eraserhead]

Yes, Menchov is far more likely to crash than any other GT contender.
I'm not even talking about him skipping the Tour, but he shouldn't focus his entire career on something he will never win by being the strongest. Because he simply isn't.

If take into account mountain stages when Menchov lost time to Alberto and Andy, then it was twice:
1) On the Madeleine stage(after first rest day)
2) On the Tourmalet stage(after second rest day)
Often in Grand Tours, rest days = blood transfusions days, but ok, it’s clinic talk.
So, maybe the main factor wasn’t high mountains, but rest days ?
For example, in next year Tour after first rest day will be flat stage and after second rest day medium mountain stage.

And the most hilarious thing is that „classic Tour” has 2 ITT’s > 50 km. So, by your logic, AC and AS doesn't have a point in participation(make a calculation and you will see) if Tour would have been "classic", yeah ?

 

[Benotti69]

how many examples one needs to see that riding both the tour and the giro for the win is just not happening given the course and the time in between?

geox needs the invites and the way to get them is by hyping both of their gc cards. once the invite is secured, only then the true team plan will be put together and even then we the fans may not learn it until after the start.

this was my reading of it. no team looking to big up their riders for next season and get invites is gonna talk like RS or other pro teams with automatic invites who talk about their star riders targeting particular races and using others.

Pure promo as he with the forked tongue has spoken