Merlene Ottey's coach

http://www.newsrt.co.uk/news/petar-vukicevic-suspended-by-norwegian-federation-for-doping-emails-sent-to-merlene-ottey-s-former-coach-985829.html

Taking the p**s or what ? Comes to something when a gal has to leave Jamaica because of the "testing" regime and become a Serbian citizen. How much more lax could it get or are the prices better ? What does Usain think ?

Anyway hopefully no one will want to take any of those 9 Olympic medals (d a m n that pesky Flo Jo - it should have been gold) and 14 World Champ medals off her. If it is good enough for Marion Jones to keep her World Titles - poor innocent little girl, married to that nasty CJ Hunter at the time - it should be good enough for our girl Merlene !

Any news on how Katerina Thanou is getting on with her claim that the IOC should award her the Sydney gold now that USP have delivered it back from Jones. It needs to go somewhere and as she said from the hospital ward in a bed opposite Tyler's twin, it is better being around my neck than gathering dust somewhere.

Way to go !
 
Aug 27, 2012
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Cycling is rapidly becoming the millstone around sport's neck.

"Jaques, time to activate the retirement plan for Pat and Hein"
 
The opening post has almost nothing to do with the article it links to.
In addition the article linked to, has the e-mail story about Vukisevic and the other coach turned around. It was Vukisevic asking for doping advice, not the other way around.

It could also be mentioned that his daughter's boyfriend was Norwegian Javelin-Champion, and biggest star of athletics, two times Olympic gold-winner Andreas Thorkildsen.
 
Aug 21, 2012
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Armchaircyclist said:
The opening post has almost nothing to do with the article it links to.
In addition the article linked to, has the e-mail story about Vukisevic and the other coach turned around. It was Vukisevic asking for doping advice, not the other way around.

It could also be mentioned that his daughter's boyfriend was Norwegian Javelin-Champion, and biggest star of athletics, two times Olympic gold-winner Andreas Thorkildsen.
And they trained together a lot (I went to school close to their training grounds).

And the emails that have been published contains info about an athlete that doped without getting caught (the name hasn't been revealed yet). The coach daddy Vukicevic corresponded with seems like a busy guy too btw. Travelling around, including going to Stockholm during the hockey worlds there.
 
Aug 21, 2012
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How to cheat and not get caught

Old School said:
That was deep.

Wish I knew where you were coming from.:confused:
This is what's happened:
So Petar Vukicevic, the coach and father of norwegian hurdler Christina Vukicevic, has been caught(bitter ex-wife) sending some emails back and forth with Merlene Otter's coach Srdjan Djordjevic.

The emails, published with some names and places redacted by norwegian newspaper Dagbladet discuss how to take testosterone and hgh without getting caught. They also convey how Petar was getting nervous when one of his subjects (could be his son as well as Christina) was getting tested after a period of taking t.

I'll translate the most significant email
Srdjan to Petar
I'll suggest this optimal solution:

Take the following blood tests: LH, SHBG, free T, T-binding. Send the results
Then take 2,5 mg every 12th hour four three days. Redo the blood test and send the results. Based on this I will be able to tell you how much you can take to get an OK effect without high risk of a positive test!

The probability of a positive test after those three days is symbolic (<5%)!

If you want to do it when it "suits you", it would be better to do combine it with andriol (oral T) which is cheaper and simpler... the critical "cleansing"-period is 10-18 days...It depends... I will inform you about the dose if you decide to do it.

In both cases it would be recommended to work with transaminase-blockers[Translator note: Not sure on this one] (converting T -> oestrogen...).

Some other combinations are in use these days, but they are complicated and I am not so sure about them... Insulin, T, T3, GH

Have you met NN.. when you visited Beograd last time? You might remember that I mentioned some variations from Greece...which may turn out to be interesting.

Im slowly exiting athletics.. I wanna try football.. and the company is going well nowadays. Pharmacology involves always high risk and low effects... when you add it all together!
Petar replies by describing how this NN is taking growth hormone and is going to start with testosterone pads, he also asks about what would be effective (and less risky) for another athlete.

In a third email gives Petar the blood test-results, might be interesting for those of you discussing effects of doping and that can make sense of this:

1. First test(before intake):
T free 14,4 pmol/L
S-LH 5 U/L
S-SHBG 180 nmol/L

2. Second test (2,5mg, three days, every 10th hour):
T free 14,7 pmol/L
S-LH 13
S-SHBG 169

Edit: I didnt realize the dates of the emails, it couldnt have been the Vukicevic-kids that are mentioned.

I guess this also is pretty solid proof of how bad the culture in athletics is.
 
May 19, 2010
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torkil said:
This is what's happened:
So Petar Vukicevic, the coach and father of norwegian hurdler Christina Vukicevic, has been caught(bitter ex-wife) sending some emails back and forth with Merlene Otter's coach Srdjan Djordjevic.

The emails, published with some names and places redacted by norwegian newspaper Dagbladet discuss how to take testosterone and hgh without getting caught. They also convey how Petar was getting nervous when one of his subjects (could be his son as well as Christina) was getting tested after a period of taking t.

I'll translate the most significant email


Petar replies by describing how this NN is taking growth hormone and is going to start with testosterone pads, he also asks about what would be effective (and less risky) for another athlete (Im guessing Christina).

In a third email gives Petar the blood test-results, might be interesting for those of you discussing effects of doping and that can make sense of this:




Alltogether these emails points heavily towards both Vukicevic-kids trying out doping methods. My guess would be that the "subject" taking growth hormone and testing T is Vladimir Vukicevic (norwegian record holder on 110m hurdles) with Christina being the one Petar wants to be more careful with. They should both be suspended for now.

I guess this also is pretty solid proof of how bad the culture in athletics is.
The e-mails are from 2001-2003. Christina Vukicevic (1987) was 14-16 years old then, and Vladimir Vukiceivic (1991) was 10-12 years old. The press, Dagbladet as well as others, have been very clear that the two athletes aren't Vladimir and Christina Vukicevic. Also the two athletes talked about in the e-mails are according to Aftenposten both female, and they didn't belong to the club Vidar IL.

Dagbladet is roasting Petar Vukičević over a slow fire. They are doing a very good job, he is starting to go crisp on the outside now, and for the two athletes he "helped" the heat must be close to unbearable. Today Dagbladet has published an interview with the Vukicevic familiy doctor which story seems to corroborate the email story about hormone tests for one of the athletes. Petar Vukičević brought an female athlete to the doctor, who had never seen her before or after, to have a hormone test done on March 7 2002. Petar Vukičević has claimed that the e-mails with blatant discussions of doping done by athletes he coached has been forged by his bitter ex-wife, it was his word against her, but now the family doctors story seems to corroborate the e-mails.

http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/11/20/nyheter/petar_vukicevic/friidrett/doping/veksthormon/24446017/
 
Jun 21, 2009
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one of the athletes is Kamilla Brandt, Vukicevic' current wife. I guess the whistleblowing ex-wife wasn't too happy about him banging one of his athletes while still married to her back then.

The other athlete is not yet named but I have enough indications to believe I know who she is.

The idea torkil presents saying it could be Vlad or Christina named in the e-mails is laughable. Although of course they may both have been on it since. But not at the age of 10. :rolleyes:

What on earth was the basis for your thinking, torkil? Did you put any thought into it at all or just pick the most sensational story possible? :confused:

and also, like the hog points out, Ottey holds a Slovenian citizenship not Serbian. Some people are more careless with their facts than a UCI president
 
Aug 21, 2012
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workingclasshero said:
one of the athletes is Kamilla Brandt, Vukicevic' current wife. I guess the whistleblowing ex-wife wasn't too happy about him banging one of his athletes while still married to her back then.

The other athlete is not yet named but I have enough indications to believe I know who she is.

The idea torkil presents saying it could be Vlad or Christina named in the e-mails is laughable. Although of course they may both have been on it since. But not at the age of 10. :rolleyes:

What on earth was the basis for your thinking, torkil? Did you put any thought into it at all or just pick the most sensational story possible? :confused:

and also, like the hog points out, Ottey holds a Slovenian citizenship not Serbian. Some people are more careless with their facts than a UCI president
I didnt realize the dates of the emails, Im sorry about that.
Still think both Vlad and Christina should be suspended for the time being.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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torkil said:
I didnt realize the dates of the emails, Im sorry about that.
Still think both Vlad and Christina should be suspended for the time being.
not really sure I can agree with that - just because their dad is under suspicion, should they get an official doping related suspension to their name?

that is unfair. My mate's dad does drugs, beats his wife and sells illegal alcohol, I still think it would be unfair to penalise my mate for that in any way.

Although let's play the "are Christina and Vlad on the good stuff" game, this is The Clinic after all and games are fun:


FOR
- Why wouldn't daddy coach give his two children, probably his two favourite athletes, his 'best' stuff?
- The story first surfaced a year ago, since about then Christina has been the most unsuccesful in her career. Did she get scared and get off the PED's?
- Javelin thrower Andreas Thorkildsen (2x olympic champion, world champion, euro champion) split up from girlfriend Christina in 2010 and has gone on to do quite badly compared to his usual standard. Has he been cut off from daddy Vuki's medicine?
- Did Thorkildsen split up with her because he realised she was on PED's and did not want anything to do with it?
- Vladimir had a brilliant season, including a Norwegian record - indication of doping.

AGAINST
- Why would Christina stop doping, while Vladimir keeps going?
- Christina must be on some poor PED's if she's doping, with the decline she's had this year.
- What parent would give drugs to his own children?
- How do you ask your children if they want to try PED's or break it to them they won't be good enough without it?
- Christina has always shown the talent to reach the level she's gone on to, from well before turning 16, which surely would be a the lowest thinkable cut off age for any PED dealing dad?

ANY MORE either for or against?
 
May 19, 2010
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FOR:
2003: Kamilla Brandt: Ten best results in Noway on 100 m. hurdles. She was probably using hgh and testosterone.

2004: 17 year old Christina Vukicevic has the ten best results in Norway on 100 m. hurdles. Kamilla Brandt had only the eleventh best time.

http://www.tv2.no/sport/ovrig/kona-til-vukicevic-knyttes-til-dopingkorrespondansen-3928425.html

2011: Christina Vukicevic was coached by Srdjan Djordjevic in Slovenia.

July 25 2012: WADA announced that a new test for human growth hormone would be used at the London Olympics.

July 30 2012: Christina Vukicevic announced that she would not be going to the Olympics.

AGAINST:

2004, Brandt might have stopped doping + CV might be a lot more talented, plus being grown enough to compete at senior level at 17, but not at 16.

2012: The season was no success. Maybe she wasn't doping with Djordjevic in Ljubljana in 2011? It had also been known for a while that WADA was preparing a new test for HGH for the London Olympics.
 
Aug 21, 2012
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workingclasshero said:
not really sure I can agree with that - just because their dad is under suspicion, should they get an official doping related suspension to their name?

that is unfair. My mate's dad does drugs, beats his wife and sells illegal alcohol, I still think it would be unfair to penalise my mate for that in any way.

Although let's play the "are Christina and Vlad on the good stuff" game, this is The Clinic after all and games are fun:
Their coach has basically been caught cheating, and has been their coach all their life. I dont care if he is their dad or not? Any athlete that has been trained by someone for a long time who has administered doping for any athlete should suspended untill cleared.

FOR
- Why wouldn't daddy coach give his two children, probably his two favourite athletes, his 'best' stuff?
- The story first surfaced a year ago, since about then Christina has been the most unsuccesful in her career. Did she get scared and get off the PED's?
- Javelin thrower Andreas Thorkildsen (2x olympic champion, world champion, euro champion) split up from girlfriend Christina in 2010 and has gone on to do quite badly compared to his usual standard. Has he been cut off from daddy Vuki's medicine?
- Did Thorkildsen split up with her because he realised she was on PED's and did not want anything to do with it?
- Vladimir had a brilliant season, including a Norwegian record - indication of doping.

AGAINST
- Why would Christina stop doping, while Vladimir keeps going?
- Christina must be on some poor PED's if she's doping, with the decline she's had this year.
- What parent would give drugs to his own children?
- How do you ask your children if they want to try PED's or break it to them they won't be good enough without it?
- Christina has always shown the talent to reach the level she's gone on to, from well before turning 16, which surely would be a the lowest thinkable cut off age for any PED dealing dad?

ANY MORE either for or against?
Based on those emails it certainly doesnt look like Petar had any moral qualms with drugs, and Im not sure if the health concerns would be that big?

Christina was injured wasn't she? What makes you think she stopped doping?
I guess it would acutally be easier to convince your kids to dope, considering you probably have a big sway on their decisionmaking. Read Tylers book for the psychology of doping, Id go for "Everyone else uses it, you dont stand a chance without it!"
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
I am sure this is just a coincidence.
but you clearly have about 0,01 % insight on the topic. I suggest you take your sarcasm somewhere else.

She'd never end up getting tested there anyway, considering how she was performing :rolleyes:
 
Jun 21, 2009
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torkil said:
Their coach has basically been caught cheating, and has been their coach all their life. I dont care if he is their dad or not? Any athlete that has been trained by someone for a long time who has administered doping for any athlete should suspended untill cleared.
but he hasn't been sanctioned yet, and i disagree anyway.

torkil said:
Based on those emails it certainly doesnt look like Petar had any moral qualms with drugs, and Im not sure if the health concerns would be that big?
well, the health concerns aren't that big if you give your 12-y-o a bottle of beer and some cannabis to to smoke either, but not many do that.

torkil said:
Christina was injured wasn't she? What makes you think she stopped doping?
chill out fella, I was just listing any reason I could think of both for and against her doping. Please try to keep up.

torkil said:
I guess it would acutally be easier to convince your kids to dope, considering you probably have a big sway on their decisionmaking.
If you work on their behaviour patterns with this in mind from when they're at a young age, then surely. But suddenly turning around when they're 15-16-17 and tell them 'oi you talentless, spotty, weak wannabe athlete, get on the testo and HGH now, you'll be nothing without it' - not as easy, especially not for yourself. But - and I would like to emphasise this - I don't really know how it would work in this case as everyone is different and also I have no knowledge of trying to talk people into doping. I guess neither do you, but you are dead confident anyway.



torkil said:
Read Tylers book for the psychology of doping, Id go for "Everyone else uses it, you dont stand a chance without it!"
:eek:
 
Aug 21, 2012
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workingclasshero said:
but he hasn't been sanctioned yet, and i disagree anyway.
Fair enough :)

well, the health concerns aren't that big if you give your 12-y-o a bottle of beer and some cannabis to to smoke either, but not many do that.

chill out fella, I was just listing any reason I could think of both for and against her doping. Please try to keep up.
Sorry if I come over as angry, that's not the intention :) Those were real questions, I wasn't sure if she was injured or not.

If you work on their behaviour patterns with this in mind from when they're at a young age, then surely. But suddenly turning around when they're 15-16-17 and tell them 'oi you talentless, spotty, weak wannabe athlete, get on the testo and HGH now, you'll be nothing without it' - not as easy, especially not for yourself. But - and I would like to emphasise this - I don't really know how it would work in this case as everyone is different and also I have no knowledge of trying to talk people into doping. I guess neither do you, but you are dead confident anyway.
Im not confident, I wrote "I guess" for a reason, it's a guess.
 
Aug 21, 2012
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I guess this is only interesting for norwegians but two things have happened since the last post in this thread:
* Christina and her brother has had their own private press conference stating their full support of their father/coach saying that he would never cheat and so on.
* The day after a former national team runner Einar Inge Aase stated that Petar Vukicevic had described to him in detail how it would be possible for an athlete like him to dope.

It shouldn't be long before Christina has to stop using her father as a coach I guess.
 
May 19, 2010
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Here is a story which is actually about Merlene Otteys coach, Srdjan Djordjevic.

Sloveninan sprinter Saša Prokofjev claims he spiked her sports drink and tipped of the Anti-Doping Agency. She tested positive for stanozolol during the World Championship in Paris 2003.

http://www.vg.no/sport/friidrett/artikkel.php?artid=10056161 (Norwegian)

Christina Vukicevic now denies having been coached by Djordjevic and says she has only been in Ljubljana once, for some tests in 2007. Never mind the Sloveninan journalist who interviewed her in 2011, when she was quoted in the Ljubljana paper Ekipa as saying: - I've been to Slovenia and Ljubljana many times. I like the city. My father, who is also my coach, has worked with Srdjan Djordjevic, and I have also trained there.

http://www.vg.no/sport/friidrett/artikkel.php?artid=10063381 (Norwegian)

Djordevic big claim to fame is having helped two of his athletes get acquitted of doping charges, Ottey in 2000, and long jumper Borut Bilac in 1990.

http://sport.si21.com/atletika/ottey/english/_djordjevic.htm
 
May 19, 2010
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The Anti-doping case against Petar Vukicevic was closed because of SOL on Monday.The leader of the Norwegian Anti-doping authorities did however say that in their opinion the e-mails, which Vukicevic and Srdjan Djordjevic claimed were manipulated or forged by Vukicevic's ex-wife, were genuine. The e-mails described advanced doping methods which at the time (2001-2003) wasn't known to the anti-doping authorities, and also gave information about the use of insulin. They also contained data from a doctors test Vukicevic made one of his female athletes take. http://www.dagbladet.no/2013/01/30/nyheter/petar_vukicevic/friidrett/doping/innenriks/25497010/

The Norwegian Athletics Association did not renew the contract with Petar Vukicevic. He'd been working as head coach for hurdling. They have stated that they don't trust him.

So in the opinion of the Norwegian Anti-doping authority Marlene Ottey's coach, Srdjan Djordjevic, had top notch knowledge of advanced doping 2001 to 2003.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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neineinei said:
So in the opinion of the Norwegian Anti-doping authority Marlene Ottey's coach, Srdjan Djordjevic, had top notch knowledge of advanced doping 2001 to 2003.
And from January 1 in 2004, he passed a new years resolution amongst his stools to stop his pursuit of knowledge in the alchemy of advanced doping :D
 

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