Mont Ventoux and American Bike Manufacturers

[53x11 in DC]

Interesting tidbit... (at the risk of sounding a bit patriotic)

Mont Ventoux Top 10:

1. Giant
2. Scott
3. Specialized
4. Trek
5. Trek
6. Specialized
7. Cannondale
8. Cannondale
9. Cannondale
10. Felt

Even Giant, the only non-U.S. marque, was essentially driven out of Cali since 1987.

Not trying to poke a stick here - it's just a LOOOONNGGG way since the 80's when we sent American riders to the Tour on bikes rebranded as "Huffy"'s. Anyone remember which manufacturer was the original that rebranded as Huffy?!?! Bueller??

 

[53x11 in DC]

Oh, and before the carping starts, I realize that a good bit of the production goes on OUTSIDE the States. Easy, tiger.

 

[philcrisp]

IIRC isn't the Scott brand for bicycles licensed to a Swiss company?

 

[Zen Master]

Interesting tidbit... (at the risk of sounding a bit patriotic)

Mont Ventoux Top 10:

1. Giant
2. Scott
3. Specialized
4. Trek
5. Trek
6. Specialized
7. Cannondale
8. Cannondale
9. Cannondale
10. Felt

Ohhhhhh I see....
And on the next cover of VeloNews will be this headlines

Trek and SRAM are the key to Contador's success
Alberto Contador: Without American equipment I would be probably out of top 10 !?!

 

[lean mean &green]

Oh, and before the carping starts, I realize that a good bit of the production goes on OUTSIDE the States. Easy, tiger.

au contraire mon fraire!

most of the top shelf frames these guys are riding are handmade on US soil.

the production of bargain frames of the same brands mostly comes out of China, Taiwan, etc.

 

[runninboy]

Not trying to poke a stick here - it's just a LOOOONNGGG way since the 80's when we sent American riders to the Tour on bikes rebranded as "Huffy"'s. Anyone remember which manufacturer was the original that rebranded as Huffy?!?! Bueller??

Are you talking about Andy Hampsten's Huffy branded Landshark by chance?
I was having my Landshark repainted from a "KHS" to Landshark and when i went to pick it up Slawta said "You just missed Andy he was here just minutes ago"

Some of the Huffy's were also Serotta and Merckx i believe

 

[BroDeal]

au contraire mon fraire!

most of the top shelf frames these guys are riding are handmade on US soil.

the production of bargain frames of the same brands mostly comes out of China, Taiwan, etc.

Really? Looking at the list, it seems that the only frames that are made in the U.S. are the Trek ones. Specialized, Scott, and Felt make all their stuff in China or Taiwan. Did not Cannondale recently announce it was shutting down all of its U.S. production?

This reminds me of Detroit auto companies advertising "Buy American" when their products are made in Mexico and the Japanese products they don't want you to buy are actually made in the U.S.

 

[kiwirider]

Interesting tidbit... (at the risk of sounding a bit patriotic)

Mont Ventoux Top 10:

1. Giant
2. Scott
3. Specialized
4. Trek
5. Trek
6. Specialized
7. Cannondale
8. Cannondale
9. Cannondale
10. Felt

Even Giant, the only non-U.S. marque, was essentially driven out of Cali since 1987.

Am (genuinely) interested to hear about the Giant link to the US - I had thought that it had always been a Taiwanese company?

Also, hate to burst the bubble about Cannondale ... it may have started as a US company, but it's now Canadian (owned by Dorel from Montreal) ... and as of this year their carbon road frames are all made in Taiwan ... (The latter fact caused me great angst - I'm a huge 'dale fan, largely because they weren't mass produced in Taiwan!) Can't comment on the other brands ...

Also, if you're going to get all Yankee Doodle patriotic ... don't you think it's about time that you changed you avatar? What's with the Colnago logo up there?

 

[Parrot23]

Amazing list. Didn't realize that. Thanks, 53x11

Yes, Colnago avatar adds some irony , but still, an impressive list from one country.

Kiwirider: isn't Cervelo Canadian from the start to finish? If the Schlecks were riding them this year....the Ventoux bike "standings" would be different.

But Lance's bike today was hideous (sport is becoming too commercialized/quirky with Lance and Trek/Nike, etc.). Bike is covered in butterfly pics apparently:

(Graham Watson pic)

 

[lean mean &green]

Really? Looking at the list, it seems that the only frames that are made in the U.S. are the Trek ones. Specialized, Scott, and Felt make all their stuff in China or Taiwan. Did not Cannondale recently announce it was shutting down all of its U.S. production?

This reminds me of Detroit auto companies advertising "Buy American" when their products are made in Mexico and the Japanese products they don't want you to buy are actually made in the U.S.

i could only speak to the treks and cannondales. leakygas bikes still say handmade in USA right on the chainstay but things are changing very rapidly as they were purchased by another company a year or two ago as previously mentioned.

that's 5 of the 10 on the list, i don't know about the other manufacturers, don't really care all that much.

 

[runninboy]

Am (genuinely) interested to hear about the Giant link to the US - I had thought that it had always been a Taiwanese company?

QUOTE]

Giant had corporate offices in El Segundo for quite some time then they moved to Thousand Oaks CA?
Supposedly most decisions were made there, manufacturing was in Taiwan.

 

[forty four]

specialized and scott make great frames regardless of where there made

 

[kiwirider]

Am (genuinely) interested to hear about the Giant link to the US - I had thought that it had always been a Taiwanese company?

QUOTE]

Giant had corporate offices in El Segundo for quite some time then they moved to Thousand Oaks CA?
Supposedly most decisions were made there, manufacturing was in Taiwan.

Wow ... never knew that ... I thought that they had always just been an outsource producer for other brands and then decided to go out on their own. Interesting ... thanks for the heads up.

As for Parrot 23's comment - yeah, Cervélo are from north of the 49th ... or at least their designs are ... And am right with you on the ugly Treks ... but hey, the whole ugly theme starts with the black calf length socks - so the hideous frame paint job kinda fits, ay??

And regarding Cannondale's outsource production - my LBS (or should that be LCD - since they're my local 'dale outlet) told me that all carbon roadies are currently coming ex-Taiwan ... but perhaps not the last of the team bikes, if L,M&G comment is based on the pics of current team bikes?

LBS also told me that at the last dealer conference they were told that the decision had been made to keep production of higher end aluminium bikes in the US ... apparently there was a little bit of "negative customer feedback" to moving Cannondale's signature products offshore ... That sound you can hear in the background is me letting out a huge sigh of relief at that decision.

 

[knewcleardaze]

Edit

But Lance's bike today was hideous (sport is becoming too commercialized/quirky with Lance and Trek/Nike, etc.). Bike is covered in butterfly pics apparently:

(Graham Watson pic)

That is one ugly piece of art. LA said it was going to go to a charity auction.
Whoever buys that thing has got too much money!

 

[scribe]

It is Damien Hirst's design. So it will likely tower to the high 6 figures.

 

[karlboss]

I'll give you a tip, check who sells the most bikes, hence who has the money to sponsor protour teams and then come back to me

 

[SlantParallelogram]

And regarding Cannondale's outsource production - my LBS (or should that be LCD - since they're my local 'dale outlet) told me that all carbon roadies are currently coming ex-Taiwan ... but perhaps not the last of the team bikes, if L,M&G comment is based on the pics of current team bikes?

LBS also told me that at the last dealer conference they were told that the decision had been made to keep production of higher end aluminium bikes in the US ... apparently there was a little bit of "negative customer feedback" to moving Cannondale's signature products offshore ... That sound you can hear in the background is me letting out a huge sigh of relief at that decision.

Are you sure the carbon Cannondales are ALL from Taiwan right now? As far as I know only the Six and the Synapse lines of carbon frames are built in Taiwan currently.

The Super Six carbon line of carbon frames are still built in this country. The same goes for the aluminum CAAD frames. I am glad to hear that Cannondale has decided to reconsider moving production of the higher end frames offshore.

 

[SlantParallelogram]

Mont Ventoux Top 10:

1. Giant
2. Scott
3. Specialized
4. Trek
5. Trek
6. Specialized
7. Cannondale
8. Cannondale
9. Cannondale
10. Felt


Anyone remember which manufacturer was the original that rebranded as Huffy?!?!

Those Huffy branded frames were built by Serotta with True Temper tubing.

The only bikes in the list that are ACTUALLY american made are the Cannondales and Treks, because the rest are made off-shore.

Specialized was founded on the concept of building bikes off-shore. They did it before everybody else started doing it. Scott frames have never been built here. Until a few years ago you had to go to Europe to buy a Scott frame. I don't think any of the Felt frames have ever been built here either.

However, cheers to Cannondale and Trek for building awesome bikes and giving American workers jobs.

 

[BroDeal]

However, cheers to Cannondale and Trek for building awesome bikes and giving American workers jobs.

"From 2010, Cannondale frames will be sourced from Asia, there will be no manufacturing from the US. The outsourcing has been going on for some years: currently only Cannondale's lower end bikes have been made in the US. In a press release, Dorel put a positive spin on the restructuring by stressing the move was part of a plan to create five Centers of Excellence around the world."

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/30420/Cannondale-to-cease-US-manufacturing

 

[53 x 11]

I think that you have to consider what "Made in X Country" means. For a bike to be made in spain it has to be 7% Spanish or 5% for Italy. This is why my Bottechia Ottavio has a made in Italy sticker when I know for a fact that Deda produces these frames in Taiwan.

Even if your frame is made in its claimed country the raw materials (carbon/resin) are being made by an Asian company. (With the exception of Time, who still draw their own carbon for their top models).

I don’t quite understand the "cheep Asian rubbish" attitude that exists. Carbon frames benefit greatly from large-scale production that Asian manufacture allows as as volumes increase they then invest in the best technology and machinery. When the quality is poor it is often because a western based company is constantly pressuring the manufacturer to make it cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.

Asian pride. End rant.
.

 

[avanti]

Some bike parts are also made in the USA - SRAM drive train & brakes, Zip wheels, Easton bars & stems, and Speedplay pedals.

When I bought my first bike in the US I had to buy European to get anything with good performance (I bought a Peugeot).

Also some pro clothing is made in the USA - I know one manufacturer who supplied jerseys to world champions.

 

[runninboy]

It is Damien Hirst's design. So it will likely tower to the high 6 figures.

Looks very much like the Landshark style that John Slawta pioneered

over 20 years ago

 

[scribe]

Those are real butterfly wings.

 

[BroDeal]

I don’t quite understand the "cheep Asian rubbish" attitude that exists. Carbon frames benefit greatly from large-scale production that Asian manufacture allows as as volumes increase they then invest in the best technology and machinery. When the quality is poor it is often because a western based company is constantly pressuring the manufacturer to make it cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.

At the top end of the market it matters a lot. It matters because of the way bikes are marketed. If the marketing was similar to something like TVs, where the largest manufacturer with the largest production capacity and the largest investment in factories will likely produce the highest quality product for the cheapest price, then it would not matter. In fact it would be a plus.

Instead bike makers all want to pretend that they are a small frame shop that makes their bikes by hand, one by one. Trek still protrays its frames as handmade, even though what most people have in mind when they envision something being handmade is very different from a high volume manufacturer like Trek. Even the companies that obviously do not do their own manufacturing attempt to give their product a sort of old world cachet. They give their company a cool name. They portray the employees as dedicated cyclists, They stress the heritage of their brand and the accomplishments of racers who have ridden their bikes. None of them want the reality to show through, that they might as well be a division of Geneal Electric or Dupont.

Bike makers are also have a problem with the prices of their top end bikes. They are taking a product that they have gone out of their way to manufacture at the cheapest possible price and they are selling it for a premium. None of the money saved by outsourcing is given back to the customer. If they competed on price with other bike makers then, again, the asian manufacturing might be a plus. But at the high end they are essentially selling a third world product for a first world price. This is quite literal. For the same price as many of the large manufacturers top end bikes, you can buy a custom frame made in the U.S. by a small company that really does embody the qualities that the large companies pretend to have.

 

[53 x 11]

Thanks Bro. Totally agree with everything you have written, although to me as an Australian supporting an American company make as much sense as supporting a Kazakhstani company .

As mentioned before I own a Bottechia (not sold is US because of performance name buy out). This is a good bike but it tries way too hard to be Italian. Its got a sticker that says MADE PAINTED IN ITALY, its called the Ottavio after the first Italian to win the Tdf and they have even set up a very small factory in Italy where they finish some frames. The result is about $200 of medium grade, Asian made carbon that get sold for $5000. Its a good, solid frame that rides well (as does pretty much everything) but I constantly get frustrated by all the bullsh*t that surrounds the 'Brand'.

I guess its only going to get worse when Nike-Livestrong buys Trek and shifts production to Sri Lanka.