Motorbikes Impacting Outcome

[ItalianJoe]

On the Paterberg, the motorcycle was way too close to the action. It looked almost as if the motorbike was fighting for Cancellara's wheel.

When you really start to suffer, and someone is stronger than you, you drop from their side to their wheel. This is instinctive behavior, even when there is not enough speed for an effective draft. My focus zones in on their back wheel or their brake bridge, I grit my teeth and hold on for dear life. Having that tunnel vision on their back wheel helps you survive when all seems lost.

Sagan could not have slid back onto Fabian's wheel without colliding with the motorbike. So where did he go? He went straight backwards.

It's one of the few things that really bugs me about pro racing. I am surprised that Sagan didn't mention it. Admittedly, he was almost certainly going to get dropped, and he probably didn't mention it for that reason. Yet, I can't help but wonder whether Sagan couldn't have held on if the motorbike wasn't there.

 

[Netserk]

Also on today's descent in Pais Vasco. The moterbike was too close to the riders

 

[movingtarget]

Also on today's descent in Pais Vasco. The moterbike was too close to the riders

On descents it is a real problem as they can't fast enough and I think there are too many on the road anyway. It's hopeless on the narrow cobbled roads as well and quite dangerous if a rider falls near a motorbike.

 

[Afrank]

Yep, motorbikes can cause and have caused a number of problems. Race organizers need to be very clear about what the drivers need to do in various situations and need to hire very good drivers.

And the riders...just think, what would Cipo do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4XxCZagAjk

 

[barn yard]

the moto on stage 1 at pais vasco was the worst i have ever seen

couldnt get away on the tight descent why not just get out of the way then, the helicopter has a camera in it

 

[RedheadDane]

Also on today's descent in Pais Vasco. The moterbike was too close to the riders

Yeah! Bit scary that moment when Contador actually hit the moto!

 

[theyoungest]

Motorbikes tend to benefit the attacker, they can use the slipstream and their attack is protected from behind. So more motorbikes means more attractive racing

 

[HiCadence]

OP sounds like a sore Sagan fan.

 

[spalco]

I don't think the motorbike on sunday influenced the outcome of the race, Sagan was already dropped at that point, but it did cut off his opportunity to swerve to the right side, and really the driver had absolutely no reason to overtake Sagan and Cancellara at that point.

Regardless of whether or not it had an impact on the race, what that driver did was very stupid imo.

 

[katkotom]

OP sounds like a sore Sagan fan.

wow, you really need help...

 

[theyoungest]

OP sounds like a sore Sagan fan.

Sagan Sagan Sagan Sagan, Sagan Sagan. Sagan Sagan Sagan!!! Sagan...

 

[maltiv]

I'm not really worried about motorbikes behind them, that hardly matters.

However, the motorbike that was 20 meters in front of Cancellara for a long time after he attacked certainly impacted the outcome. He would have won nonetheless, of course, but it's a serious issue when you can gain 20 seconds or so due to drafting a motorbike.

I guess the worst example is Pinotti's ITT stage win in the Giro last year, when he drafted a motorbike from start to finish and won the stage as a result.

 

[Roude Leiw]

Yes, they do impact the outcome, they always have, sometimes because the driver is not good, sometimes it is some kind of blatant favoritism (giro anyone ).

But what is the alternative? Heli has its limitations if you want pictures from inside the race, not even speaking about the less than stellar performance yesterday in pays basque by the heli.

Organizers should perhaps think about reducing the sheer volume of motocycles in the race, there seem at times to be more than riders. The problem is not so much the 3-4 local telly needs to produce pictures, but VIP, press in a larger sense etc.

 

[spalco]

There is no alternative, and certainly it's a very difficult job, but when they do make a mistake, get too close or interfere, there's nothing wrong with pointing it out.

 

[Eraserhead]

Sagan Sagan Sagan Sagan, Sagan Sagan. Sagan Sagan Sagan!!! Sagan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Fuxkinhug

 

[ElChingon]

Not only the recent Flanders situation but they seem to want to get in the middle of the pack when ever its totally wrong for them to get in that spot. There are only two riders the motorbike doesn't fit to one side? Why does it have to force the issue and get in between the rider breaking away and the chaser all the freaking time? They can't wait for one minute at the very least to zoom by once the race break has been established? What is the urgency of the motorbike? Its not like it has a camera mounted on it for us to see the up close action. It all looks way to obvious to me.

Yes, its helped riders I like and also rider I don't, for the record.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Absolutely agree that they need to tighten the rules on who/how many vehicles are allowed to freely travel through the peloton.

In the Cancellara/Sagan incident it likely didn’t affect the outcome although I do believe it helped discourage Sagan’s chase, but there are countless other times when the riders are subjected to extra stress/dangers even an advantage due to unwarranted vehicular interruption.

 

[tomorrow]

On the Paterberg, the motorcycle was way too close to the action. It looked almost as if the motorbike was fighting for Cancellara's wheel.

When you really start to suffer, and someone is stronger than you, you drop from their side to their wheel. This is instinctive behavior, even when there is not enough speed for an effective draft. My focus zones in on their back wheel or their brake bridge, I grit my teeth and hold on for dear life. Having that tunnel vision on their back wheel helps you survive when all seems lost.

Sagan could not have slid back onto Fabian's wheel without colliding with the motorbike. So where did he go? He went straight backwards.

It's one of the few things that really bugs me about pro racing. I am surprised that Sagan didn't mention it. Admittedly, he was almost certainly going to get dropped, and he probably didn't mention it for that reason. Yet, I can't help but wonder whether Sagan couldn't have held on if the motorbike wasn't there.

Well, obviously Sagan knows who was the best on Sunday and he showed it both when crossing the finish line and also on the podium picture(no the one with him pinching the bum). However I doubt he would mention it even if there really was some impact, unless it would be really serious. Except the goss situation during the last tour, I haven't notice him complaining about something else then his effort, and I can remember situations where he could, e.g. Ciolek, riders not working if he's in chasing group, LLS attacking when he needed to eat something on the hill stage in the tour, etc

 

[RedheadDane]

But what is the alternative? Heli has its limitations if you want pictures from inside the race, not even speaking about the less than stellar performance yesterday in pays basque by the heli.

Cameras on the bikes!
Though I suppose technology isn't yet up to such...

Not only the recent Flanders situation but they seem to want to get in the middle of the pack when ever its totally wrong for them to get in that spot. There are only two riders the motorbike doesn't fit to one side? Why does it have to force the issue and get in between the rider breaking away and the chaser all the freaking time? They can't wait for one minute at the very least to zoom by once the race break has been established? What is the urgency of the motorbike? Its not like it has a camera mounted on it for us to see the up close action. It all looks way to obvious to me.

Where they may snatch the bike clear away from underneath the rider...

 

[Roude Leiw]

Cameras on the bikes!
Though I suppose technology isn't yet up to it

It exists and works, there are quite a few films to be seen on youtube, most are MTB downhills, there is also a circuit race by an amateur there who put his HR, wattage etc as an underlay, quite interesting to watch actually

 

[RedheadDane]

Then the problem is solved!

Would actually make for some pretty awesome footage!

 

[classicomano]

Gent Wevelgem 2005, Flecha vs Mattan. That was a joke.

 

[tomorrow]

It exists and works, there are quite a few films to be seen on youtube, most are MTB downhills, there is also a circuit race by an amateur there who put his HR, wattage etc as an underlay, quite interesting to watch actually

yes, but MTB bikers probably wont care so much about aerodynamics or the weight of the bike. And also, they are doing recordings, not live images I think. Unless the cameras are built in the bike and therefore replace the weight that are actually put into bikes because of the minimal weight limits, the transfer of the images and data acquired is solved(you need pretty broadband connection and signal coverage all over the route), then I can't see it used in the road cycling. However the future might be very entertaining. Imagine watching the race on the computer, being able to click on any rider you want for real images, his wattage or position in the peloton whenever you want. With this working, any contact, and I mean any contact with the team directors and other team members, possibly also with people around the route would have to be severed. Imagine someone with cellphone shouting on Contador to attack, because Froome is on his edge for quite some time, or vice versa, contador wants to try to attack one last time and froome not catching him in the instance, because he has the info contador cannot possibly hold the tempo.

 

[spalco]

It exists and works, there are quite a few films to be seen on youtube, most are MTB downhills, there is also a circuit race by an amateur there who put his HR, wattage etc as an underlay, quite interesting to watch actually

Yeah, but that's post-production, not live.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I guess the worst example is Pinotti's ITT stage win in the Giro last year, when he drafted a motorbike from start to finish and won the stage as a result.

That was the example I was going to throw out. I understand they have to be there for the coverage, but they have got to be as neutral to the outcome of the race as possible.