My next frame will be Graphene

[DanielsDad]

I wonder how long before we get bikes out of this?


CAMBRIDGE, England—A substance 200 times stronger than steel yet as thin as an atom has ignited a global scientific gold rush, sending companies and universities racing to understand, patent and profit from the skinnier, more glamorous cousin of ordinary pencil lead.

The material is graphene, and to demonstrate its potential, Andrea Ferrari recently picked up a sheet of clear plastic, flexed it and then tapped invisible keys, triggering tinkly musical notes.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323664204578610092869213354.html

 

[avanti]

I wonder how long before we get bikes out of this?
...........

Probably never - primary use in in electronics where very small quantities are used.

 

[Le breton]

Probably never - primary use in in electronics where very small quantities are used.

I wouldn't be so adamant. How about graphene + nanotube, like in UFA (Ultra-Flyweight Aerogel).

Look it up on google, it's a solid material with 1/6th of the density of air.

 

[laziali]

Not soon. There is a weight below which a bike is simply not stable. UCI claims its 6.8 although that seems a little high. Point is that for smaller frames, pro-teams are adding weights to make them compliant so frame material is not the constraint.

 

[Zorotheslacker]

pro-teams are adding weights to make them compliant so frame material is not the constraint.

Or motors?

 

[laziali]

Or motors?

No, not motors. The tin-foil hat guys are in the next forum along

 

[Le breton]

.....
There is a weight below which a bike is simply not stable. ......
.

Do you have a reference for that?
I have seen/read many articles about bicycles stability but I don't remember the weight of the bicycle (I'm not talking about the wheels) being mentioned.

 

[laziali]

Do you have a reference for that?
I have seen/read many articles about bicycles stability but I don't remember the weight of the bicycle (I'm not talking about the wheels) being mentioned.

Yeah, read it recently in an interview with the UCIs (allegedly) independent engineering expert. http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/08/the-6-8kg-limit/

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Most pros are riding bicycles that weigh under 6.8 kg (some as little as 5.5 or 6) and have had a tungsten ballast weight dropped down the seat tube or bolted beneath the BB to bring them up to spec weight.

The world's lightest geared "English racer" road bike weighs less than three kg and reputedly has racked up more than 20,000 miles. If so, and if bikes under 6.8 kilos are dangerous, there must have been at least five or six hundred riders killed riding that dangerously light POS.

Graphene is a Bucky tube reduced to two dimensions. You probably can get equivalent strength in three axes but with less weight by reverting to the tube shape.

Ultralight metallic microlattices are even lighter than carbon nanotubes and likely will be available in your LBS before anything made from Buckminsterfullerene.

 

[Le breton]

Yeah, read it recently in an interview with the UCIs (allegedly) independent engineering expert. http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/08/the-6-8kg-limit/

No mention of stability ANYWHERE in that interview.

The UCI Technical Collaborator Johan Kucaba mentions manoeuvrability (nice gallicism), never stability and his answer is so imprecise that to me it looks like he is just embarrassed by the question and wanting to eschew the issue

 

[King Boonen]

No mention of stability ANYWHERE in that interview.

The UCI Technical Collaborator Johan Kucaba mentions manoeuvrability (nice gallicism), never stability and his answer is so imprecise that to me it looks like he is just embarrassed by the question and wanting to eschew the issue

From the interview:

What does “manoeuvrability” refer to? Mr Kucaba further explained:

“Manoeuvrability is the property of the bicycle has to be driven properly, correctly. We all know that different bicycles offer different performance, particularly in terms of manoeuvrability, and we believe that a bicycle of 5Kg would be very bad even dangerous to manoeuvre, to drive. The weight has a role in manoeuvrability of a bicycle because it mainly brings stability to the bicycle. The UCI is therefore concerned about it because the safety of the riders would be directly affected.”

 

[laziali]

No mention of stability ANYWHERE in that interview.

The UCI Technical Collaborator Johan Kucaba mentions manoeuvrability (nice gallicism), never stability and his answer is so imprecise that to me it looks like he is just embarrassed by the question and wanting to eschew the issue

What King Boonen said. It pays to read the whole article before making such an emphatic statement

 

[shakeshakeshake]

I think carbon nano-tubes have some carcinogenic problems that need to be figured out. I believe they act similar to asbestos fibers when inhaled.

 

[hiero2]

Do you have a reference for that?
I have seen/read many articles about bicycles stability but I don't remember the weight of the bicycle (I'm not talking about the wheels) being mentioned.

No mention of stability ANYWHERE in that interview.

The UCI Technical Collaborator Johan Kucaba mentions manoeuvrability (nice gallicism), never stability and his answer is so imprecise that to me it looks like he is just embarrassed by the question and wanting to eschew the issue

From the interview:

I'm going to 2nd Le breton on this one - that caca from the interview about stability and weight is --- caca. And, yeah, it is an imprecise answer. Weight brings stability? I think it has a lot more to do with geometry, and very little, if anything, to do with weight. And the UCI is well known for a propensity to act in a bureaucratic fashion, with reasoning more perverted than a Jesuit proving the existence of angels, when it comes to the mechanical properties and physics of a bicycle. All we need to do to prove that is ask Graeme Obree to tell his story again.

The UCI may justify the weight restrictions for safety reasons - but I don't believe it for a bikesnob second. I think they looked at Japan and the keirin restrictions - and a burgeoning field of physical changes and improvements to bicycle frames - and just wanted to slow things down and exert a little control.

 

[DanielsDad]

Weight brings stability?

I weigh a lot and am very stable.

 

[dsut4392]

I'm going to 2nd Le breton on this one - that caca from the interview about stability and weight is --- caca. And, yeah, it is an imprecise answer. Weight brings stability? I think it has a lot more to do with geometry, and very little, if anything, to do with weight.

Third. The only way the statement makes any sense is if you substitute "inertia" for "stability", but even then it's still caca

 

[King Boonen]

Third. The only way the statement makes any sense is if you substitute "inertia" for "stability", but even then it's still caca

Le Breton said the article didn't mention stability, it clearly does so all three of you are wrong.

Whether the weight limit and weight of the bike in general have anything to with stability is certainly a discussion worth having, but that wasn't the point of my post. The word stability clearly appears in the interview.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

A 5 kg production road bike (58 cm) shown at EuroBike 2013. “It could have been lighter if we went with SRAM Red or Campagnolo Super Record.” [rather than DA Di2]

I think carbon nano-tubes have some carcinogenic problems that need to be figured out. I believe they act similar to asbestos fibers when inhaled.

Beryllium also is highly toxic, but there have been frames made from beryllium alloys and a beryllium-aluminium metal matrix.

 

[Manu3172]

That will probably exist in some years , some of the problem currently being mass production. Also these materials tend to be very strong in one direction and not in any other which may be problematic for a bike.
As mentioned before, first and main application will be about electronic components and energy storage.

 

[Le breton]

What King Boonen said. It pays to read the whole article before making such an emphatic statement

You are right, I obviously had missed that sentence somehow.
The weight has a role in manoeuvrability of a bicycle because it mainly brings stability to the bicycle.

Maybe my sixth sense was in action and I subconsciously detected the inanity of that statement so that my conscious brain ignored it.

Is that a satisfactory answer?

Anyway, today, as I come back to this thread and the reference in question, I see that among the 59 comments there is a nice discussion on bike stability which makes reference to an article which I had read on the subject in Science magazine.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6027/339

I encourage you and King Boonen to read that very good comment.

 

[Le breton]

Le Breton said the article didn't mention stability, it clearly does so all three of you are wrong.

Whether the weight limit and weight of the bike in general have anything to with stability is certainly a discussion worth having, but that wasn't the point of my post. The word stability clearly appears in the interview.

You must be a lawyer!!!

You are paying attention to form but not to substance.

 

[sponsor]

More from last month

Both articles from New York City.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/13/bend-it-charge-it-dunk-it-graphene-the-material-of-tomorrow